Fallout: The Series now the most successful Amazon show ever

[CT Phipps]

I noticed when Cooper mentions Vault 4's model number that it was designed or constructed in 2065, over a decade before the Vault-Tec conspiracy and long before the management vault was conceived. Which means Vault 4 wasn't originally designed for its eventual purpose as a genetics lab. Only the management vaults seem to be designed for purpose, and they suck at it.

The revolt notably had the same scientists as in Cooper's commercial.

 

[Bradylama]

The revolt notably had the same scientists as in Cooper's commercial.

It does. Hawthorne is in the last holotape recording that they play for Lucy. Which means the mutant uprising must have happened pretty soon after the Great War.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Set was an involuntary ally of the Master but an ally he was, hence why they had troops stationed inside the place.



A bunch of horrifying deformed mutants living in the sewers in an indestructible bunker is a bit different as a point.

At least this Vault is hidden, mostly, despite the giant Vault-Tec symbol in front of it.

Even without the Vault door it's unlikely. To adjust the comparison, it would be as if there were a hiidden cave of Lenape troglodytes underneath Yonkers. Yes, that would still probably be found.

My biggest question with the retcon of its location being now in the Boneyard (or at least Shady Sands being in Los Angeles County--maybe the Valley), is whether or not its meant to be the same Shady Sands location as the original games or if the community moved ala Rome over a hundred years.

The way the chalk board is written makes it pretty obvious that this is supposed to be the same Shady Sands.

It's not an arbitrary bar, because if there's radioresistant human beings walking around and producing offspring who are also radioresistant, then the wasteland isn't really a threat anymore. The survivalistic tension of the post-apocalypse gets halved and all you're left with is killer critters. There also wouldn't be any hidden ruins full of prewar goodies left because radioresistant humans could clean them out no problem. No need for expensive and hard to acquire drugs or PPE.

I agree that radioresistant humans could be messy but it's not setting-breaking. If proper controls are taken (IE, figuring out a reason why they're isolated or not overtaking the world), such a thing could be fine.

I'd also note that Bethesda has already done this in a much more egregious manner with the Children of Atom, who as of Fallout 4 have magical radiation resistance powers. At least the Vault 4 Dwellers (who are not even established explicitly as radioresistant) have some reason to be silo'd off.

And again - radio-resistance is not radio-immunity. Unless you have lead skin or a magical quad-helix DNA strand, radiation is going to have some effect on you. Degree of resistance varies based on mechanism.

I know you keep saying they may not be radioresistant, but we can't assume anything the show neither shows or tells us. If Vault 4 natives are directly descended from the gulpers then it's logical to conclude they're all radioresistant from gulper DNA. The problems and caveats you're thinking of should have been covered in the show itself, instead of contriving everything to set up a 2 parter joke with a literal punchline in the form of Maximus going on a rampage.

Given that phenotypically they bear almost no resemblance to Gulpers, who themselves aren't even explicitly established as being radioresistant (it is rather a first-order inference which I'm happy to accept as fact), than it's actually not so facile to assume that they would share that particular trait. And while the show should have addressed this given the show did establish this as the purpose of the fault, I'm happier to chalk it up to "bad writing" and "lack of vision" etc. than I am "fundamental setting break." That's just a step too far for me, to level a criticism like that on the basis of 2nd or 3rd order inferrence.

 

[CT Phipps]

I think it's also the fact this is not "The Gulper Vault" probably but the "Evil Experiment with DNA" Vault.

Which is to demonstrate the kind of nastiness that Vault-Tec was up to and how it has affected the surface world and made it worse.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

I think it's also the fact this is not "The Gulper Vault" probably but the "Evil Experiment with DNA" Vault.

Which is to demonstrate the kind of nastiness that Vault-Tec was up to and how it has affected the surface world and made it worse.

I mean if anything the Gulpers probably got out because of the mutant rebellion, not because of Vault-Tec per se. But I guess it would be on there heads either way.

Y'know I was going to say to the show's credit that the concept of a mutant slave revolt is sort of interesting, though actually that idea was already done in Fallout 2 with Mariposa and the Gen 2 mutants. Though to be 'fair' I strongly doubt the showrunners are aware of this incident.

 

[CT Phipps]

I mean if anything the Gulpers probably got out because of the mutant rebellion, not because of Vault-Tec per se. But I guess it would be on there heads either way.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vault Tec would be releasing their "new and improved" ecology before its adequately tested. Also, depending on what they were up to, they might have been creating monsters to wipe out non-Vault-Tec survivors.

Especially if they make it so the Enclave and Vault-Tec are 1:1

 

[Bradylama]

Unless you have lead skin or a magical quad-helix DNA strand, radiation is going to have some effect on you.

This is not a huge stretch for a setting with something like FEV in it. You're still thinking of Fallout as being based in hard scifi and not pulp comics. You can flush your entire body of radiation with an IV drip.

Given that phenotypically they bear almost no resemblance to Gulpers, who themselves aren't even explicitly established as being radioresistant (it is rather a first-order inference which I'm happy to accept as fact), than it's actually not so facile to assume that they would share that particular trait. And while the show should have addressed this given the show did establish this as the purpose of the fault, I'm happier to chalk it up to "bad writing" and "lack of vision" etc. than I am "fundamental setting break." That's just a step too far for me, to level a criticism like that on the basis of 2nd or 3rd order inferrence.

No, it breaks the setting because the mere existence of Vault 4 breaks credulity. It's impossible for Vault 4 to even exist for all the reasons enumerated. They didn't even care to establish if Vault 4 had contact with the outside world before the Shady Sands refugees started showing up, or why they took them in the first place if they're a xenophobic race that hates humanity for a good reason.

 

[TheGM]

or why they took them in the first place if they're a xenophobic race that hates humanity for a good reason.

Well you don't have to like somebody to help them. Their generosity could be born from a sense of duty or even superiority.

Also the irony of Vault-Tec being so assmad about Shady Sands getting in the way of Vault-Tec rebuilding the world despite the NCR being founded by people from Vault 15 seems to be lost on a lot of people. In fact I bet it is lost on the writers since they are hack frauds.

 

[CT Phipps]

Well you don't have to like somebody to help them. Their generosity could be born from a sense of duty or even superiority.

Also the irony of Vault-Tec being so assmad about Shady Sands getting in the way of Vault-Tec rebuilding the world despite the NCR being founded by people from Vault 15 seems to be lost on a lot of people. In fact I bet it is lost on the writers since they are hack frauds.

I mean Hank blew it up because his wife dumped him for another woman.

World's most divorced dad.

But yes, if there is a major flaw with the Fallout series as an example of the setting, it's that it suffers the same problem timeline-wise as every Bethesda installment of the series. It doesn't feel like 200 years has past. Fuck, it doesn't feel like thirty years have passed let alone the eighty of the original gane. Too many skeletons, burned out human ash piles, and so on.

Unless we're meant to assume those are from the Shady Sands nuke.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

I wouldn't be surprised if Vault Tec would be releasing their "new and improved" ecology before its adequately tested. Also, depending on what they were up to, they might have been creating monsters to wipe out non-Vault-Tec survivors.

Especially if they make it so the Enclave and Vault-Tec are 1:1

seems like perhaps the least efficient way possible to spend your time post-war trying to wipe out surface dwellers

This is not a huge stretch for a setting with something like FEV in it. You're still thinking of Fallout as being based in hard scifi and not pulp comics. You can flush your entire body of radiation with an IV drip.

Total radiation resistance is still notable, it's one of the big things what makes the FEV notable. I wouldn't rule out other means to achieve that, but I wouldn't assume it out of hand.

No, it breaks the setting because the mere existence of Vault 4 breaks credulity. It's impossible for Vault 4 to even exist for all the reasons enumerated. They didn't even care to establish if Vault 4 had contact with the outside world before the Shady Sands refugees started showing up, or why they took them in the first place if they're a xenophobic race that hates humanity for a good reason.

I agree that these two are huge and fundamental problems with it as a piece of writing in itself.

 

[CT Phipps]

seems like perhaps the least efficient way possible to spend your time post-war trying to wipe out surface dwellers

I mean they're disgusting mutants who might pollute your gene pool and steal your land. Why would you tolerate their existence?

Total radiation resistance is still notable, it's one of the big things what makes the FEV notable. I wouldn't rule out other means to achieve that, but I wouldn't assume it out of hand.

I mean, we don't even know if the humans have ANY resistance. Only their experiments were designed to crossbreed humans and radiation resistant species.

 

[Alphons]

I mean they're disgusting mutants who might pollute your gene pool and steal your land. Why would you tolerate their existence?

I think Android meant that creating monsters to wipe out Wastelanders is not an efficient idea, not wiping out the Wastelanders.

If it really was their goal (ignoring that in the meeting they say time will eliminate everyone on the surface), instead of breeding the gulpers they could have made some airborne virus like the Enclave.

It's also dumb like the Umbrella from RE movies using the zombies to wipe out the humanity to rule Earth.
How do you get rid of your pet project once it killed everyone else?

 

[CT Phipps]

I think Android meant that creating monsters to wipe out Wastelanders is not an efficient idea, not wiping out the Wastelanders.

If it really was their goal (ignoring that in the meeting they say time will eliminate everyone on the surface), instead of breeding the gulpers they could have made some airborne virus like the Enclave.

It's also dumb like the Umbrella from RE movies using the zombies to wipe out the humanity to rule Earth.
How do you get rid of your pet project once it killed everyone else?

To be fair, its REALLY REALLY HARD to make a biological weapon that won't kill non-mutated humans but will kill mutated ones.

Because, well, its an arbitrary stupid distinction.

And once released, viruses don't tend to go away.

 

[Bradylama]

Well you don't have to like somebody to help them. Their generosity could be born from a sense of duty or even superiority.

Also the irony of Vault-Tec being so assmad about Shady Sands getting in the way of Vault-Tec rebuilding the world despite the NCR being founded by people from Vault 15 seems to be lost on a lot of people. In fact I bet it is lost on the writers since they are hack frauds.

Vault 15 wasn't even a control vault. Vault-Tec's plan to be the only faction on the surface included vaults designed to repopulate the surface decades and centuries before the management vaults would open up, with no direction or monitoring from the management vaults. They don't even know about Vault City.

 

[CT Phipps]

Vault 15 wasn't even a control vault. Vault-Tec's plan to be the only faction on the surface included vaults designed to repopulate the surface decades and centuries before the management vaults would open up, with no direction or monitoring from the management vaults. They don't even know about Vault City.

What we know about Vault-Tec's plans is very little or even if there is a plan. Cooper believes there's an ultimate mastermind or Vault Tec CEO behind all of this "the one pulling the strings" and is following Hank to him.

But we don't know who, what, when, or where regarding that.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

I mean they're disgusting mutants who might pollute your gene pool and steal your land. Why would you tolerate their existence?

you misunderstood me

I mean, we don't even know if the humans have ANY resistance. Only their experiments were designed to crossbreed humans and radiation resistant species.

I agree. My point to Brady was, even if we infer that they have any degree of radiation resistance, it would be another stretch still to assume they have total radiation resistance.

To be fair, its REALLY REALLY HARD to make a biological weapon that won't kill non-mutated humans but will kill mutated ones.

Because, well, its an arbitrary stupid distinction.

And once released, viruses don't tend to go away.

If you invent a virus you can also create a vaccine before releasing it. Just cook up a new strain of super-ebola, make a vaccine, and release it on the stone-age morons on the surface, they'll have no defense.

Releasing gulpers to wipe the slate clean is obviously a stupid idea.

 

[TheGM]

They don't even know about Vault City.

Or do they!?!?! *cue dramatic music*

 

[R.Graves]

What we know about Vault-Tec's plans is very little or even if there is a plan. Co

yes this is a side effect of being either badly written or underwritten which what every fallout entry except new vegas has been since 2008

 

[Alphons]

To be fair, its REALLY REALLY HARD to make a biological weapon that won't kill non-mutated humans but will kill mutated ones.

Because, well, its an arbitrary stupid distinction.

And once released, viruses don't tend to go away.

But the same thing applies to any monsters they could potentially create?

How do you train them to kill only surface dwellers and ignore your people?

Plus once they wipe out everyone, then the surface is now filled with bloodthirsty creatures.
Do you create another mutant to get rid of them?

If only Vault Tec had something capable of destroing post-war civilizations that could be easily controlled from a safe place (like a Vault).

 

[Post-War Tribal]

Or do they!?!?! *cue dramatic music*

Dun DUNN DUUUUUNNNN.. !