Favorite Power Armor?

[ben-ten]

Again, they don't have to be invulnerable. What they are is more survivable.
You're also arguing specifically against the T-51b, which was designed in a world where directed energy weapons were becoming commonplace. Thus it provided more overall protection against rayguns that melt people.

Like fiction - IT'S OK! But when people say things like "with power armor they became to rule the world", it sounds funny. It's useless in inventing such mechanisms.

So basically, you're arguing against the realism of a specific set of armour even though it is tailored against the threats of it's world. Any real Power Armour would be tailored to the threats of the real world and have different specs.

I'm arguing against power armor. Not only PA of FO. Still, even for world of FO (let's imagine it more realistic) PA is useless thing.

This doesn't change the fact that Power Armour improves it's wearer's survivability.

But bulletproof vest and helmet also improves wearer's survivality.

that's probably why all major armies around the world are spending billions on the subject?

They try new types of protection. Power armor is a dream. Very bad dream.

this is a part of the 50's pulp background. of course men will have awesome powerarmor in the future that can take a beating! and stealthboys! and laser rifles! and plasma rifles!

I think... Scientist work on how to make weapons act without men operating it...

 

[Tagaziel]

Like fiction - IT'S OK! But when people say things like "with power armor they became to rule the world", it sounds funny. It's useless in inventing such mechanisms.

We thank you for your input, neo-luddite.

I'm arguing against power armor. Not only PA of FO. Still, even for world of FO (let's imagine it more realistic) PA is useless thing.

That's only your opinion. You know, tanks were also "useless".

But bulletproof vest and helmet also improves wearer's survivality.

Power armor does it more efficently.

They try new types of protection. Power armor is a dream. Very bad dream.

Apparently, you fail to understand the subject and take into account both the advantages and flaws.

I think... Scientist work on how to make weapons act without men operating it...

Which will never happen. The human factor is essential.

 

[ben-ten]

That's only your opinion. You know, tanks were also "useless".

Some tanks was really useless.

But bulletproof vest and helmet also improves wearer's survivality.

Power armor does it more efficently.

Not much. But cost of one soldier increases dramatically.

I think... Scientist work on how to make weapons act without men operating it...

Which will never happen. The human factor is essential.

It's your opinion.

 

[Tagaziel]

Some tanks was really useless.

Some.

Not much. But cost of one soldier increases dramatically.

Newsflash: A highly trained and better equipped army of 1.000 is better than a cannon fodder army of 100.000.

The Red Army succeeded in the Second World War only because they had numbers on their side. Nothing more.

It's your opinion.

Newsflash #2: An UAV is different from a robot tank.

 

[ben-ten]

Some tanks was really useless.

Some.

If we talk about protecting stuff for soldiers, then PAs are the same as those useless tanks.

Not much. But cost of one soldier increases dramatically.

Newsflash: A highly trained and better equipped army of 1.000 is better than a cannon fodder army of 100.000.

You are exaggerating. Why you think, that soldier without PA is cannon fodder? He can't be highly trained? Or simple normally.

The Red Army succeeded in the Second World War only because they had numbers on their side. Nothing more.

It disproves your previous words about "1000 vs 100 000".

 

[Vault 69er]

Like fiction - IT'S OK! But when people say things like "with power armor they became to rule the world", it sounds funny. It's useless in inventing such mechanisms.

You misunderstand my point. You look at the T-51b and make the leap that any real life Power Armour will only ever be as powerful as that, therefore will be useless against real world weapons.
Even though this particular model isn't the most powerful even in it's own universe.

I'm arguing against power armor. Not only PA of FO. Still, even for world of FO (let's imagine it more realistic) PA is useless thing.

But again, you're using one set of Fallout Power Armour as a benchmark for them all. Which is ridiculous.

But bulletproof vest and helmet also improves wearer's survivality.

Do you think survivability is an on/off switch? Power Armour would provide more survivability.
You seem to ignore that Power Armour would not only provide protection against weapons, it would also protect the wearer from chemical weapons, radiation and landmines. Providing an ability to field ground troops into even the most hostile conditions.

I think... Scientist work on how to make weapons act without men operating it...

Right now, unmanned vehicles are used purely for recon. Unmanned weapons are being developed as a suppliment to human troops. Not a replacement.
If the enemy just happens to have advanced ECM or EMP capabilities, those unmanned weapons just became a junkyard of shiny toasters.

 

[Tagaziel]

If we talk about protecting stuff for soldiers, then PAs are the same as those useless tanks.

You have yet to substantiate your point with unbeatable arguments.

You are exaggerating. Why you think, that soldier without PA is cannon fodder? He can't be highly trained? Or simple normally.

Because, you know, he takes a bullet from a rifle, he goes down. A PA shrugs it off and blows the offender into Kingdom Come.

Also:

It disproves your previous words about "1000 vs 100 000".

Ya know, it was to illustrate that even though the other side had superior tech, the other had superior numbers and could simply flood the enemy positions en masse. Why do you think the KA had so much casualties? It is in contrast to nowadays, armies are smaller and cannot afford to throw that large amounts of people at a problem. Therefore, improvements to human survavibility, such as powered armors, will give an edge.

Just out of curiosity, how much military experience do you have?

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

Ben-Ten, I think you should drop the argument.

You are never going to win, because you are going nowhere with it, and your logic does not make sense.

This is how your chain of thought works:

Weapons:
Swords, picks, crossbows, arrows, blunt weapons, etc.

Armours:
Leather - Chainmail - Platemail.

You instantly jump out and say "PLATE MAIL SUCKS!", who the hell would wear platemail in a combat situation? Wear leather or chainmail instead, I mean - platemail is so heavy, you become less dextrous, and it's also STUPID.

I mean dude, come on. Plate mail is the medieval equivalent of powered armor in the future. Guess what, genius. That's right. Most if not all medieval armies utilized plate mail.

Anyway, drop the argument.

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Armours:
Leather - Chainmail - Platemail - Horse

 

[ben-ten]

You misunderstand my point. You look at the T-51b and make the leap that any real life Power Armour will only ever be as powerful as that, therefore will be useless against real world weapons.
Even though this particular model isn't the most powerful even in it's own universe.

First, let's talk about "what do you mean under term "power armor". I mean, that it's a complicated armor with a lot of mechanics and hi-tech elements, which increase your abilities. Such as secureness, strenght and so on.

Ok. In the game PA very powerful thing. It stand again almost all types of weapons. Somebody claimed characteristics of PA. So if we put such an armor in real life... Number of posts about it.

But again, you're using one set of Fallout Power Armour as a benchmark for them all. Which is ridiculous.

Because this PA claimed as good choice.

Do you think survivability is an on/off switch? Power Armour would provide more survivability.
You seem to ignore that Power Armour would not only provide protection against weapons, it would also protect the wearer from chemical weapons, radiation and landmines. Providing an ability to field ground troops into even the most hostile conditions.

What about antirad suit over BP-west? Which cheap and light. I still don't get what s the point in making such 3 (ok let it be 2) centner monster, which never will be a walking/running fortress or a tank?

Right now, unmanned vehicles are used purely for recon. Unmanned weapons are being developed as a suppliment to human troops. Not a replacement.
If the enemy just happens to have advanced ECM or EMP capabilities, those unmanned weapons just became a junkyard of shiny toasters.

Agree with that.

To Mikael Grizzly:
That pic is not a power armor. It's variant of bulletprof suit.

To DarkLegacy:

You are never going to win, because you are going nowhere with it, and your logic does not make sense.

I'm not trying to win, i'm just discussing.

Don't make such analogies. Plate mail and power armor are completely different things in absolutely different times. By the way, Middle ages is a stupidest time in history.

 

[Tagaziel]

First, let's talk about "what do you mean under term "power armor". I mean, that it's a complicated armor with a lot of mechanics and hi-tech elements, which increase your abilities. Such as secureness, strenght and so on.

That's a Chuckie definition.

This is a proper definition (Wikipedia of course):

"A powered exoskeleton is a powered mobile machine consisting primarily of more-or-less skeleton-like framework worn by (and attached to) a person, and a power-supply which supplies at least part of the activation-energy for limb movement.

Powered exoskeletons are designed to assist and protect the wearer. They may be designed for example to assist and protect soldiers and construction workers, or to aid the survival of people in other dangerous environments."

Ok. In the game PA very powerful thing. It stand again almost all types of weapons. Somebody claimed characteristics of PA. So if we put such an armor in real life... Number of posts about it.

Except these flaws are easily countered.

Because this PA claimed as good choice.

And still is, at least in Iraq.

What about antirad suit over BP-west? Which cheap and light. I still don't get what s the point in making such 3 (ok let it be 2) centner monster, which never will be a walking/running fortress or a tank?

No, please, just... no. This is the epitome of stupid idea. A Rad Suit is heavy, uncomfortable, lacks ventilation, is easily damaged and limits vision.

That pic is not a power armor. It's variant of bulletprof suit.

You're not the brightest bulb, are you? It is a composite powered infantry armor. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_armor

I'm not trying to win, i'm just discussing.

Then bring some real arguments.

Don't make such analogies. Plate mail and power armor are completely different things in absolutely different times. By the way, Middle ages is a stupidest time in history.

By deeming the medieval times stupid, you brand yourself as a moron. GG.

 

[ben-ten]

That's a Chuckie definition.

This is a proper definition (Wikipedia of course):

"A powered exoskeleton is a powered mobile machine consisting primarily of more-or-less skeleton-like framework worn by (and attached to) a person, and a power-supply which supplies at least part of the activation-energy for limb movement.

Powered exoskeletons are designed to assist and protect the wearer. They may be designed for example to assist and protect soldiers and construction workers, or to aid the survival of people in other dangerous environments."

Thanks for correct definition.

Ok. In the game PA very powerful thing. It stand again almost all types of weapons. Somebody claimed characteristics of PA. So if we put such an armor in real life... Number of posts about it.

Except these flaws are easily countered.

How?

Because this PA claimed as good choice.

And still is, at least in Iraq.

What do you mean?

What about antirad suit over BP-west? Which cheap and light. I still don't get what s the point in making such 3 (ok let it be 2) centner monster, which never will be a walking/running fortress or a tank?

No, please, just... no. This is the epitome of stupid idea. A Rad Suit is heavy, uncomfortable, lacks ventilation, is easily damaged and limits vision.

NBC suit is not heavy. Comfort, ventilation? Maybe built-in sauna? I don't think that on a battlefield you will think about shited pants or make-up...

You're not the brightest bulb, are you? It is a composite powered infantry armor. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_armor

Oh, sorry. Nice. So i expected. A lot of small details, clumsy, needed for big battery and heavy.

Then bring some real arguments.

I bringed them. But you are reading between lines. You simply don't want to believe them. So it's useless to tell you anything.

By deeming the medieval times stupid, you brand yourself as a moron. GG.

If you talk like this with people, then you are a moron.

 

[Vault 69er]

First, let's talk about "what do you mean under term "power armor". I mean, that it's a complicated armor with a lot of mechanics and hi-tech elements, which increase your abilities. Such as secureness, strenght and so on.

Ok. In the game PA very powerful thing. It stand again almost all types of weapons. Somebody claimed characteristics of PA. So if we put such an armor in real life... Number of posts about it.

But you're going into the specific technical capabilities of this fictional model, such as it's armour withstanding 2500 joules of impact. You say that there are weapons that can penetrate that particular armour, therefore all such armour is useless. Do you honestly not see what's wrong with this?

Because this PA claimed as good choice.

Yet you fail to take into account Hardened Power Armour and Advanced Power Armour, from the same series. Both superior to the basic T-51 model.

What about antirad suit over BP-west? Which cheap and light. I still don't get what s the point in making such 3 (ok let it be 2) centner monster, which never will be a walking/running fortress or a tank?

Radiation suits are bulky and completely impractical for combat. And there's no way you're getting a bullet-proof vest inside of those. Unless you want your soldiers to cook. And that still doesn't protect the wearer 100% from small arms fire and explosions.

Don't make such analogies. Plate mail and power armor are completely different things in absolutely different times.

The point I believe he's making is that armour technology has always moved hand-in-hand with weapons.
And even though a correctly placed crossbow bolt for instance could take out a knight in armour, there were many, many weapons the armour could deflect.

By the way, Middle ages is a stupidest time in history.

Oh please. The average education of a medieval peasant which is probably what you're thinking of has nothing to do with how entire countries applied their technology.
And if it's one thing they were good at in the middle ages, it was war. If plate armour were stupid, they wouldn't have used it.

NBC suit is not heavy. Comfort, ventilation? Maybe built-in sauna? I don't think that on a battlefield you will think about shited pants or make-up...

What the hell? A soldier must have a degree of comfort in what they wear or their battlefield abilities will be affected.
A rad suit interferes with movement, dulls the senses and is uncomfortable to wear. I would not stake my life on someone wearing one of those in battle.

Oh, sorry. Nice. So i expected. A lot of small details, clumsy, needed for big battery and heavy.

Because we must judge the potential of anything by it's prototype demonstration models.

I bringed them. But you are reading between lines. You simply don't want to believe them. So it's useless to tell you anything.

Your only argument appears to be "Powered armour sucks! It sucks because it isn't 150% everythingproof!!"

 

[ben-ten]

Ok. I can't continue this discussion tight now. After sesion i'll put here my opinion in great details. Otherwise, this is an endless talk...

 

[Tagaziel]

Because you don't have any arguments to support your claims.

 

[joyforyou]

you all can feel proud of yourselfs, you've just ruined great topic. as for the rl pa -- isn't that obvious that even light rain creating few inches of mud will make it complete useless? did you ever try to raise your own leg standing in the mud? isnt that obvious that any terrain exept paved platform will make it sank? if not, just calculate the whole fucking preasure that it gives on only two points just slightly larger than human feet. any, and i mean ANY bepedal structure with such weight is owned by gravity

and just for information the total losses of military personal of ra in wwii are still classified and no historian will dare to name them besides they were huge. if you are intersted in subject just find and read Victor Suvorov's books an ex gru spy that ran to england at the end of the cold war (so he is not an soviet symphatayser in any way possible)

 

[RUN_LIKE_HELL]

you all can feel proud of yourselfs, you've just ruined great topic.

An you go on adding fuel to the fire, Good job sparky. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

[joyforyou]

you all can feel proud of yourselfs, you've just ruined great topic.

An you go on adding fuel to the fire, Good job sparky. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed.

who said i am?
*whistling*
i am just good old rebel, i am just what i am...

 

[Vault 69er]

Yes, Power Armour could potentially not work well in muddy bogs. That makes it useless.

The same way tanks can't operate in jungles. Useless.
Frigates can't cross over land. Useless.
Missile launchers can't engage in close combat. Useless!!

I can't get over this idea that Power Armour can't do anything and everything and is therefore a stupid idea.
Does the phrase 'combined arms' mean anything to you?

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Really, almost every setting that has power armour of any kind is set in space, and it involves humans fighting aliens.

So, why this discussion, about modern day weapons vs fantasy armour is really lame.

Trust me, as soon as the power amour comes around, it will be as common as the kevlar vest, and there will be numerous weapons to penetrate it, but it's just the next step in future armies.

It will hardly be unstoppable though. Remember, they won't be using 7,62 NATO against it in 2110.