Feminism and why it's bad.

[Crni Vuk]

And yet, here you are. Anyway, I hope you don't take this the wrong way but I find it a bit offensive to call them/compare them with caricatures when you know basically zero about their life and experiences. If I would be in their shoes, I would find that offensive. - And people are surprised why they get often so upfront in discussions. Just saying.

I have the feeling that kind of rhetoric is bellow your level you know. You're better than that. We should not talk about them like their opinion exists in some kind of vacuum. Tagz has a wife for example. Sanders studied history. And they all have their friends, family and backgrounds. What do we know what their individual experiences are.

Anyone who's not a hundred percent gay rights needs a stern talking to.

If you don't support gay rights or show ONE FUCKING LITTLE PIECE of not TOTALLY agreeing with Gays... YOU'RE A FUCKING BACKWARDS PIECE OF SHIT.

That's today! Yay! The thing is both sides are fucking stupid. The government for trying to ban (what do you get out of it) and the gay rights activist for being so upfront for it (for the love of god [pun not intended] why do you care about sex and love so much). Both sides just have it blown way out of size. We should be worrying about the political stability and suffering in the Middle East and Africa, not making so much noise for sex/love rights.

Eh? Did you watch any of the videos from above?

 

[Sander]

That's today! Yay! The thing is both sides are fucking stupid. The government for trying to ban (what do you get out of it) and the gay rights activist for being so upfront for it (for the love of god [pun not intended] why do you care about sex and love so much). Both sides just have it blown way out of size. We should be worrying about the political stability and suffering in the Middle East and Africa, not making so much noise for sex/love rights.

Yeah, why do those gay people feel the need to walk across the street while holding hands or to kiss in public like a million hetero couples do every day? Why do they care about the ability to just live their lives the way everyone else does all the time? Why are they so upfront about wanting the same rights? After all, there are other people suffering somewhere therefore they shouldn't care about anything else!

You know I think the most poignant point we can take away from all the recent political discussions on NMA is that America ruins everything. You are completely correct, both sides are at far too many times very stupid. I'll share a little secret. It's party politics. None of those people are doing it to fight for a cause, they are doing it to fight people they don't agree whith which makes them feel good. It's what Sander and Tagaziel's entire mindset consists of psychologically, at least when it comes to political """discussions""", and is why I find them caricatures. It's also why these debates are pointless and the only winning move is not to play.

You were part of a hate mob for at least six months (for all I know you still are) because you couldn't stand the thought of people having opinions about video games you didn't agree with. Your whinging about other people being caricatures is farcical.

 

[ChildServices]

10/10 banter m8

 

[Hassknecht]

Well, gain as much political influence as possible and put more laws in place. For example, women quotas in upper management, laws against hatespeech and things like that. People are then supposed to get used to "total equality" and realise that it's actually not bad.

But where does hate speech begin and where does free speech end?

Excellent question. According to Tumblr, everything is hate speech, and absolutely everything is offensive. And while Tumblrites are not yet representative of the majority, more and more is considered hate speech.
Kinda related to that is this article. Since everything can be interpreted as sexual harassment, men tend to be overly cautious around women in the workplace and avoid most contact that isn't strictly necessary.
Of course, it's the Telegraph and thus patriarchal propaganda, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Sander]

Excellent question. According to Tumblr, everything is hate speech, and absolutely everything is offensive. And while Tumblrites are not yet representative of the majority, more and more is considered hate speech.
Kinda related to that is this article. Since everything can be interpreted as sexual harassment, men tend to be overly cautious around women in the workplace and avoid most contact that isn't strictly necessary.
Of course, it's the Telegraph and thus patriarchal propaganda, so take that with a grain of salt.

Depending on the survey and location, One in three, 40-50% (EU), 54% or one in four women have experienced sexual harassment in the workplace. Most of those incidents never get reported, because people want to not stir the boat and realize all too well that retaliation is a thing. In addition, many of those complaints never lead to anything because complaints aren't taken seriously or offenders aren't disciplined.

But someone found an anecdote about some dude getting dragged to HR over opening a door (wanna bet he either didn't get disciplines, or the complaint wasn't about the door opening itself?) so we've gone waaaaaaay too far in combating sexual harassment, right?

 

[Hassknecht]

Excellent question. According to Tumblr, everything is hate speech, and absolutely everything is offensive. And while Tumblrites are not yet representative of the majority, more and more is considered hate speech.
Kinda related to that is this article. Since everything can be interpreted as sexual harassment, men tend to be overly cautious around women in the workplace and avoid most contact that isn't strictly necessary.
Of course, it's the Telegraph and thus patriarchal propaganda, so take that with a grain of salt.

Depending on the survey and location, One in three, 40-50% (EU), 54% or one in four women have experienced sexual harassment in the workplace. Most of those incidents never get reported, because people want to not stir the boat and realize all too well that retaliation is a thing. In addition, many of those complaints never lead to anything because complaints aren't taken seriously or offenders aren't disciplined.

But someone found an anecdote about some dude getting dragged to HR over opening a door (wanna bet he either didn't get disciplines, or the complaint wasn't about the door opening itself?) so we've gone waaaaaaay too far in combating sexual harassment, right?

Pretty much, yeah.
Although the book the article is about probably contains a bit more than just that one anecdote, though.

 

[Tagaziel]

If you don't support gay rights or show ONE FUCKING LITTLE PIECE of not TOTALLY agreeing with Gays... YOU'RE A FUCKING BACKWARDS PIECE OF SHIT.

Mostly you're just an ass. All that's wanted is equality for same-sex and opposite-sex couples. If marriage wasn't contaminated by religion, it would still be a fundamentally secular contract between a pair of consenting adults. It helps that there's a fairly conclusive, ever-growing body of evidence that beyond reproduction itself, there's no real difference between a homosexual and a heterosexual couple.

That's today! Yay! The thing is both sides are fucking stupid. The government for trying to ban (what do you get out of it) and the gay rights activist for being so upfront for it (for the love of god [pun not intended] why do you care about sex and love so much). Both sides just have it blown way out of size. We should be worrying about the political stability and suffering in the Middle East and Africa, not making so much noise for sex/love rights.

Fallacy of relative privation. Look it up.

 

[Sander]

@Hassknecht:
I can give you a dozen academic books about the pervasiveness, consequences, sociology and origins of sexual harassment that would disagree with the conclusions the Telegraph draws from her book. In fact, I could give you a Guardian article written by that very same researcher that paints quite a different picture.

We must tread carefully, implementing change without impacting the progress we've made in reducing harassing behavior in the workplace. The encouragement to socialize with opposite sex employees cannot be misinterpreted as a pass to sexually harass.​

Her book appears to be about the reasons why senior employees are unlikely to mentor women, and she names vaguely worded sexual harassment policies as one (not the) culprit. And she's very careful to note that this is not to meant to suggest that sexual harassment is not a problem, nor that we should be less lax in combating it. Just that we should be more clear about what does and doesn't constitute harassment. I'd say that a lot of harassment is an accumulation of minor problematic behavior, and that many offenders know how to game strictly worded policies to get away with their bullshit.

In addition, there's a reason why those sexual harassment policies are harsh when it comes to socializing (note: harshly worded but often not actually harshly enforced): a lot of those networking and mentorship meetings outside of the confines of the work floor do turn into dudes trying to get into women's pants, using mentoring and networking and their senior position as leverage in those situations. You know, sexual harassment. Similarly, the reason professors don't close their doors now is not because students are so oversensitive, but because a whole lot of sexual harassment happened (and happens) behind closed doors by professors. Many of these policies are not overreactions, but simply reactions to a fucked up situation -- and even then they are often merely lip service, and employees rarely lose their place or are significantly disciplined for breaching those policies.

I'd also argue that the fact that a lot of workplaces (especially in the US) rely on out-of-work socializing and networking is a remnant of a culture that hasn't adjusted to a lot more diverse workplace, where getting along with someone outside the workplace should no longer be relevant in mentoring situations. Because that focus on getting alone and out of work socializing not only forces the workplace into people's personal lives (40-hour work week what's that?), it also creates a situation where "do I like you" (aka: "are you like me") becomes a key question for those deciding on promotions and other career advancement. And it's a whole lot harder for those not like the entrenched elite to break into a group when it's about whether that group likes them, rather than their accomplishments.

Anyway, it's great to not have to make an argument, because the person you make the argument about reinforces it so gladly.

"Haha they're all caricatures" is something warranting an argument now?

That or maybe it's the beer. I can't sure because my logic's been impcated. That and I'm shitposting to kill the thread. I'll continue till it works.

Given that you've made your trolling intent clear, next shitpost by you in this thread gets you a week-long ban.

EDIT: Oh whoops, CS should've gotten a permanent ban. Fixed that. 'cause you know, we don't want his racism here.

 

[Moosick]

tbh the whole Tumblrite stuff doesn't really fly anymore

asides from there being well-established libertarian, authoritarian (even some tankies!) cliques there's a pretty deeply-rooted neo-nazi following on there, as well as TERFs, flimsy egalitarians, SJWs, anti SJWs -dear god that term is little more than a catch-all for 'disagrees with me' for crying out loud! -and even a few national anarchists, royalists etc etc insert obscure ideology here etc

admittedly I avoid talking politics even on my personal blog but among those left-libs I follow most of them look towards that aggressively authoritarian collectivism with the same regard a dog philosopher might a man in the street

and anecdotes aside the anti-sjw movement on there is pretty big (usually the brainless brand of faux-libertarian who read Twilight of the Idols and then centered their world philosophy around it), often pushing the contradictory opinion in the face of 12y/o's who once read a Rationalwiki page and proceeded to do much the same.

also agreed. the guy is a fucking imbecile I'm sure he'll call some other user /something/ terrible in a month or so's time EDIT: by which I mean; don't permaban him

and it's hardly gounna give you a gleaming reputation, if you care for that

 

[PossibleCabbage]

Excellent question. According to Tumblr, everything is hate speech, and absolutely everything is offensive. And while Tumblrites are not yet representative of the majority, more and more is considered hate speech.
Kinda related to that is this article. Since everything can be interpreted as sexual harassment, men tend to be overly cautious around women in the workplace and avoid most contact that isn't strictly necessary.

The hilarious thing is that the vehement reaction that various edgelords have to being told "hey, that's not cool to say" shows how insecure that lot is. I mean, reasonable responses to "hey, that's racist" are things like "oh, I'm sorry" or "I hear you, but could you explain why?" not whatever the whole weird "Dark Enlightenment" or whatever internet reactionary movement is. No one's saying "let's make being an asshole illegal" so when someone says you're being an asshole, there's no need to get upset.

Plus if "men are more apt to think before they speak when around women, lest they say something stupid" that is more or less the desired effect (as people should always think before they speak.)

 

[Dr Fallout]

Anyone who's not a hundred percent gay rights needs a stern talking to.

If you don't support gay rights or show ONE FUCKING LITTLE PIECE of not TOTALLY agreeing with Gays... YOU'RE A FUCKING BACKWARDS PIECE OF SHIT.

Hey man, I get where you're coming from. I was merely presenting my opinion that gay rights isn't really negotiable morally, from my perspective. I get why you're mad, it's because the people on this forum really aren't great at debating. It frustrates you to the point of calling me that. Anyone else on this forum would probably not be understandable to such a post, but I get it. My post wasn't really aimed at you at all. But it's my fault for making too simple, too lackluster a post. I mean, of course you're pro gay-rights. If anyone isn't on here I wouldn't shed a tear if they got banned for it.

Hopefully no one else jumps on you for that post. Anyway, I agree that as far as moral neccessities go, not killing people and having a fair non violent, unopressive democratic society is more important than gay rights by itself. Although this is all in the 'very important' zone for societal development.

You know I think the most poignant point we can take away from all the recent political discussions on NMA is that America ruins everything. You are completely correct, both sides are at far too many times very stupid. I'll share a little secret. It's party politics. None of those people are doing it to fight for a cause, they are doing it to fight people they don't agree whith which makes them feel good. It's what Sander and Tagaziel's entire mindset consists of psychologically, at least when it comes to political """discussions""", and is why I find them caricatures. It's also why these debates are pointless and the only winning move is not to play.

Oh I didn't mean calling you anything! I was mainly talking to myself. I do support gay rights (see my attack on the government) but at the same time I just can't understand their fervent believe and fight for it. And a nice calm post, I like it! I'll keep on arguing though cause I love doing so, and call me a caricature but I do it for the fun too... and actually for a cause. But then again I don't much of a cause... overall great clearing up! Peace in our time!

In response to the rest, did you not read my attack on the government for trying to ban it? And you just proved my statement right, that if you don't support it a hundred fucking percent you're an asshole. Thank you for proving my point.

 

[TransgenderVaultDeweller]

We can all argue till are face is blue.

Social problems that exist in the united states today are the following. NOTE: These are limited, But not only to.

Transgender rights and discrimination, Homosexual Discrimination, Alimony, Child Custody court cases. Religion influence that affects Americans and it's legal system.

I don't expect most of you to have walked in my shoes, But as a transgender woman. You always have worries on your mind such as rejection, ostracization from peers. Possible complications that might bring trouble to the work place. Trust me. It's a pretty big thing in your life. The best i think you could do is perhaps get religious influences out of children's life and let them decide for themselves at an age. Rather than shove it down their throat. While some might still resent the idea innately, You could also use education, Science, Medicines for people to understand.

A lot of other problems though, That Tumblr feminist say is first world problems and i think if they really cared about women's right, They should be support and upbringing the woman who stood her ground to the Taliban that tried too kill her for wanting to go to school. But, I just hear silents. Dead Whispers if that.

 

[Dr Fallout]

We can all argue till are face is blue.

Social problems that exist in the united states today are the following. NOTE: These are limited, But not only to.

Transgender rights and discrimination, Homosexual Discrimination, Alimony, Child Custody court cases. Religion influence that affects Americans and it's legal system.

I don't expect most of you to have walked in my shoes, But as a transgender woman. You always have worries on your mind such as rejection, ostracization from peers. Possible complications that might bring trouble to the work place. Trust me. It's a pretty big thing in your life. The best i think you could do is perhaps get religious influences out of children's life and let them decide for themselves at an age. Rather than shove it down their throat. While some might still resent the idea innately, You could also use education, Science, Medicines for people to understand.

A lot of other problems though, That Tumblr feminist say is first world problems and i think if they really cared about women's right, They should be support and upbringing the woman who stood her ground to the Taliban that tried too kill her for wanting to go to school. But, I just hear silents. Dead Whispers if that.

Your last paragraph is badly structured, but I get the drift. What I believe is that we're on the brink of World War 3 and most people just want sex rights. I'm Pro Gay but there are far worse things that need our attention.

 

[Tagaziel]

Your last paragraph is badly structured, but I get the drift. What I believe is that we're on the brink of World War 3 and most people just want sex rights. I'm Pro Gay but there are far worse things that need our attention.

 

[Nas92]

But someone found an anecdote about some dude getting dragged to HR over opening a door (wanna bet he either didn't get disciplines, or the complaint wasn't about the door opening itself?) so we've gone waaaaaaay too far in combating sexual harassment, right?

I don't want to pick a fight, but you missed the entire point of the linked article. The point was that obsessing about sexual harassment - which, according to the article, can be anything even just a friendly word - leads to a divide between male and female workers and basically ruins cooperation.

On the topic of gay rights, I'm generally very much for them (and yes, here comes the BUT) but I am creeped the fuck out by the concept of gay adoption. I can't imagine how shitty such a child's life would be, constantly faced with the fact that they're different than others, probably even bullied because of it.

 

[Crni Vuk]

How are they different than others :S

I mean it is a well known fact that gays emit homosexual radiation that turns children in to trans-gender mutants, but hey! That's nature!

 

[Sander]

I don't want to pick a fight, but you missed the entire point of the linked article. The point was that obsessing about sexual harassment - which, according to the article, can be anything even just a friendly word - leads to a divide between male and female workers and basically ruins cooperation.

See my subsequent posts.

On the topic of gay rights, I'm generally very much for them (and yes, here comes the BUT) but I am creeped the fuck out by the concept of gay adoption. I can't imagine how shitty such a child's life would be, constantly faced with the fact that they're different than others, probably even bullied because of it.

You mean society sucks for gay people? Hey another reason to advocate more for gay rights.

Also, research shows that this is some bullshit and adopted children of gay people do just fine.

 

[Nas92]

How are they different than others :S

They have same sex couples for parents, while most of their peers will have heterosexual couples for parents. That's an obvious difference.

Also, research shows that this is some bullshit and adopted children of gay people do just fine.

But then there's research that proves the opposite, which of course gets immediately denounced as crimethink. I'm not saying you're not correct, but I'd like to point out that in academic life it is impossible to properly debate such a thing, because it will probably cost one's job to have the "wrong" opinion.

 

[Hassknecht]

How are they different than others :S

I mean it is a well known fact that gays emit homosexual radiation that turns children in to trans-gender mutants, but hey! That's nature!

Eh, it's not like many, many kids haven't experienced life with two mothers anyway:

 

[Sander]

But then there's research that proves the opposite, which of course gets immediately denounced as crimethink. I'm not saying you're not correct, but I'd like to point out that in academic life it is impossible to properly debate such a thing, because it will probably cost one's job to have the "wrong" opinion.

No, there isn't. The research is pretty much unequivocal and points in only one direction on this topic. It is also nonsense that it's impossible to research or debate these things in academia, or have a differing opinion. There are a whole bunch of conservative universities in the USA, not to mention a buttload of conservative thinktanks, and you can easily get funding to study the effects of parenting on children.

Fact is, the research showing different results isn't there because there's simply no evidence that having two gay parents is bad for children.