Feminism and why it's bad.

people rush to condemn the people being critical and folks are complaining about "authoritarian" leftists (apparently you don't need to have any actual authority or enforcement capabilities to be authoritarian now)
you know that authoritarianism is also ideological, right?

like there are PLENTY of people who love equality, fairness, sometimes multiculturalism etc and think that the best way to do that is to stifle freedom of speech and instigate it all through governmental doctrine. Then there are the ones who don't want government, but instead want to use peer pressure to ostracise The Dissenter. Hell, Marx warned people about those sorts in /his/ writings, for all the good it did once the tyrants started to cherry pick his works.

I'd say "authoritarian leftist" is the perfect descriptor for those people. They're not quite Stalinist but they are still in the upper left hand side of that sad little chart people use.
 
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I'm not going to say those people don't exist because I'm sure they do, but when people in this thread and elsewhere complain of authoritarian leftists they are invariably doing it about people who are not actually advocating any kind of authoritarian positions. There are no calls for legal punishment, for the use of police force -- at most, there are calls for administrators or employers to do something. Which I'd agree is generally a bad thing (and frequently criticized within the left as well), but that's still not actually authoritarianism, and certainly not "not quite Stalinist."

These kinds of reactions to leftist actions are, as I keep on saying, a moral panic.
 
That wasn't my point. My point was just that the whole "it's not a law, it's just suggestions" really is like how Oceania worked. Nothing else. Being critical of insensitive things is fine, and I do think the whole issue got blown out of proportion.
1984 had an actual Thought Police.
But they had no laws, technically. No courts, no laws, no legislative, just the rules of the Party. It is explicitly said that there are no laws anymore.


And? You're dodging all the points he's making.
 
That wasn't my point. My point was just that the whole "it's not a law, it's just suggestions" really is like how Oceania worked. Nothing else. Being critical of insensitive things is fine, and I do think the whole issue got blown out of proportion.
1984 had an actual Thought Police.
But they had no laws, technically. No courts, no laws, no legislative, just the rules of the Party. It is explicitly said that there are no laws anymore.


And? You're dodging all the points he's making.

Because I don't care about all the other points, and I don't actually disagree with them. Discussing things with Sander is pointless, anyway, and all I wanted to say in this matter was how in this special case the kneejerk comparisons to Nineteen Eighty-Four are at least correct in one tiny detail.
 
Since it's such a common phrase nowadays, in what way is it pointless to discuss/argue things with Sander as opposed to other people?
 
Since it's such a common phrase nowadays, in what way is it pointless to discuss/argue things with Sander as opposed to other people?
Probably because I hold that in general, debates/discussions are a terrible way to change people's minds.

Speaking of changing people's minds, hey-ho let's back up the "Tim Hunt was attacked unfairly" train:
Besides Blum and Oransky, both of whom confirmed the accuracy of St Louis’s account under her Tweet, at least three other conference delegates — all independent of the decision to report — tweeted confirmation of St Louis’s account while still in Seoul.

[..]

We followed up with all three. Dr Scott Watkins told us:
‘I don’t think the comments were appropriate. . . I do believe that Sir Tim probably did intend to joke and he doesn’t appear to be a terrible or sexist person. However, I think he missed the mark by quite a long way. He was in a position of power and showed poor judgement.’​
We asked Leigh Dayton to describe the reaction in the room after the comments were made. She wrote:
‘The room went silent and I confess I hissed in a wry manner. I was sitting beside a male academic from Britain who said something to the effect of, “I never thought I’d hear anything like that again.’​
We asked if she agreed with the accuracy of Connie St Louis’s report. Her response: ‘Absolutely.’
We asked if she thought Hunt intended the remarks as a joke:
‘I found Hunt’s comments to be badly judged remarks from someone who grew up professionally in an old-fashioned, hierarchical, male-dominated world. The fact that he claims it was a joke suggests he’s completely out of touch with the 21st century.’​
Charles Seife, an author, journalist, and Professor at New York University told us:
‘My recollection is slightly different in details from Connie St. Louis’ version, but the essence is the same. I remember it as “the problem with girls in the lab” rather than “my problem with girls.” (I didn’t have any idea about his personal history until after the story broke, and I didn’t get any impression that he was referring to a specific experience.) I remember it as a numbered list: 1) The girls fall in love with the boys, 2) you fall in love with them, and 3) they cry when you criticize them.​
My recollection is that the end of the speech was basically more thank-you noises, and he thanked the hosts for listening to a monster like him. There was a small smattering of polite applause. But many people sat stonily and didn’t applaud — I, for one, took the affirmative decision not to applaud.’​
In addition to these initial six corroborating eyewitnesses, a large number of other respected, credible people were present and have gone on the record to back St Louis’ account.

From https://medium.com/@danwaddell/saving-tim-hunt-97db23c6ee93, citing a host of people who were there to witness his remarks.
 
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Feminism, as in equality for women, isn't bad. Neo-feminism is what we have today, and it has little to do with equality.
 
Feminism, as in equality for women, isn't bad. Neo-feminism is what we have today, and it has little to do with equality.

And this is a fact because you say so.
I encourage others to look into it and draw their own conclusions.

All but the most extreme branches of feminism are about equality, and one could even argue for those extreme branches. They just don't communicate it very well, so it seems that they just seek to swap patriarchy for matriarchy.
 
Most of the feminists I've met communicate their ideas awfully - as in, Pete Hines does a better job. Good for you for trying to get something (good) done, but fuck off for not only not doing it properly but also trying to put a blame on me for something I've never done in the first place.

But that's just my experience. There are some okay folks there too, people who want to understand you and want to be understood, and don't just ram their ideological mantra in your face - I just feel they're a minority.
 
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It's because social justice is different from feminism. Feminism doesn't get you anywhere any more in the public space. There's always people looking for that thing they can throw out there and start debates with on a social moral high ground, swing their ego around. That doesn't say anything about the ideology itself, it happens with every set of ideas.

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Ah the world of sexism, where calling feminists nazi like creatures is seen as sexist for being sexist and calling other people sexist nuts for being sexist to sexist people is also sexist.
 
Ah, the good ol' days when men were still men and feminists didn't ruin every single game and comic book. That's all really vague, Marvel has how many ongoing comic books? Does criticism keep you from playing or enjoying games you like?

I'm tired of hearing about feminists, discussions about feminists or SJW's simply because I don't deal with them in my day-to-day life.
I don't dispute that bat-shit insane extremists and opportunists exist, but these days it seems like the discussion about them is disproportional to its actual importance to my life.
 
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