Feminism and why it's bad.

[Trash of the Den]

Bottom line is my brothers and sisters. Every Movement that has ever existed in history since the dawn of time has always had bad apples in it. Even PETA that I belong too has had some pretty hateful people in it and I'm an animals rights activist myself, but those few ignorant idiots certainly didn't represent the ideals of that group or me.

Anyone who claims to be a feminist or a mens rights activist and uses the term for "hate or sexism of anykind" to me isn't really a part of any of those groups. Just like a overly religious Christians who claims they are a christian but instead condemn and judge other people for having a different lifestyle, being gay or a different belief then they do. They aren't really religious people at all in my view because they are uncaring, selfish and narcissistic.

They are simply just idiots my friends. There are lots of them out there and you can find them a part of any group. The religious zealots are just people who have read the bible and taken it out of context to suit their own judgements and contempt for other human beings in general.


^See even so called "atheists" can be hateful too, but I certainly don't assume to think for a second that they are all that way because most of them are actually very caring, open minded, and intelligent individuals. I have an atheist friend on steam that I consider one of my best friend and he's the most intelligent non judgmental open minded guy I have ever met. Unlike this guy in this video which claims he's an "Atheist" obviously he isn't really what he says he is. He's just an idiot. Anyone can claim to be something, it doesn't mean they are.

The thing that these hateful so called "feminists" hate to hear is that not all men are bad. So let's try and not become as ignorant as them and say that all feminists are hateful, sexist terrible people as well. Because if we judge the entire group that way we are no better then these militant feminists. Just like I know not all Muslims are radicalized but actually really caring, loving people.

Good to try too keep an open mind and try not to become like them. Now what was that quote from
Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche from Baldur's Gate?

• He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

 

[Hassknecht]

Yeah. But do you have a personal opinion of what you think should happen?

That's a really tough question. I think everyone needs to take a step back and take a look at the whole situation free of any ideology. The Left, too, because to me it became increasingly noticable that many on that side are not rational at all. Following the events there have been many voices from the (feminist) Left claiming that basically there was nothing special about New Year's Night, that it was the normal sexism and violence against women happening in Germany all the time, arguing especially with the Oktoberfest and rather dubious numbers (and not understanding that even if those numbers were true the Oktoberfest would still be orders of magnitudes safer than what happened in Cologne). They actually do believe that stuff like that happens all the time, everywhere, in equal severity.
So I think we all need to approach this on a rational basis. The Right must shed the prejudice against muslims/brown people, the Left must shed its reflex of thinking up ways how white men are always worse.
We must try to understand how this situation came into being, rationally and without left or right ideology. From there we must find out how we can prevent this in the future. Not (just) by improving the police force, but by fixing the problem at the root.

/edit: Furthermore, the current political climate is somewhat volatile. There is a growing frustration with the government and media spread widely among the (lower) middle class. People are told to "carry on" and that "we'll make it", but the fact of the matter is that many people don't trust the government anymore. And many media outlets reporting with a (perceived) heavy left-wing bias doesn't help, people feel frustrated, and when they voice their frustration they're being called idiots and nazis. That also needs to change. On the one side we're being told that all feelings matter and that everyone's concerns are valid, but there is a growing population of middle class white men who feel left out and behind repeatedly. Their fears are mostly met with ridicule and condescence. All that leads to a more and more volatile mood and more and more people being fine with violence. It's not just the Far Right predicting a civil war or at least widespread civil unrest anymore, that sentiment is growing everywhere. And many appear to approve of that, too. They lost their status in this society and their trust in the government. It's all building up and to them, a period of violence seems to be inevitable.
I don't think it will come to that, but it is not impossible.
Things are certainly going to be interesting.

 

[Nas92]

snip

Everyone accepts that the Christian / White far right is mostly fucking nuts and can be just as dangerous as ISIS (see: Breivik). The question is that why should people not turn to them when their own governments hush up major crimes, suppress their right to debate, where anyone can be labelled as racist or nazi or whatever and lose their jobs, where the police cannot guarantee your and your children's basic safety but are happy to attack you should you decide to defend yourselves, where the govt actively makes use of useful idiot antifas (who are not much different from actual fascists, from what I hear from these West European countries) to bully you and so on? I just heard that some Afghan teens were placed among 10 year olds in Austrian schools (what a fucking brilliant plan, no way that can go wrong) and it turned out they were free to sexually and physically abuse everyone else. The only time people came forward was after Cologne. Would you blame the parents of those children for becoming "racist" and "nazi"? Then again, it doesn't matter what you think, because a whole lot of crybully antifas will just make mock of their concern to status signal their anti-racism. It's seriously reminiscent of the old commie days my grandparents told me about - if you complained that you lived like shit and worked for nothing then a bunch of snitches called you dangerous fascist reactionaries and reported you to the ÁVH (secret police in 50s Hungary).

It's not just the Far Right predicting a civil war or at least widespread civil unrest anymore, that sentiment is growing everywhere. And many appear to approve of that, too. They lost their status in this society and their trust in the government. It's all building up and to them, a period of violence seems to be inevitable.
I don't think it will come to that, but it is not impossible.
Things are certainly going to be interesting.

I predict something like the Irish Troubles at best, and total fascist takeovers at worst. That's in Western Europe, since the US has guns I think it's most likely gonna come to Civil War 2 there. In fact, certain historians actually pointed out that the current climate in the US is very similar to the times before the Civil War. It all depends on the election. Not just who wins, but the entire process. Obviously Republicans will nominate Trump and the GOP establishment will try to cow him to positions they want him to have, all the while it's still unknown whether it will be Sanders or Clinton who gets the Democratic nomination. Their chances are better if it's Sanders, but there are a lot of low info Democrats who will just go for Clinton cause muh female president.
Also, there have been disturbing reports about the economy. Now, it's not just coming from Alex Jones and Ron Paul types, but actual banks and major news outlets. Not to mention the possbility of millions more migrants arriving from Turkey.

 

[Illuminati Confirmed!]

snip

You're totally right. Germany should be worried about the fact that almost 0,3 % of it's population was identified by the intelligence service as right-wing extremists, and less than half of those as potentially violent.

Accepting millions of immigrants from a culture nothing like our own (the main points being such things as freedom of speech, freedom of religion, secularism, equal rights for women, etc.) is a complete non-issue. What could possibly go wrong? It's all just evil nazi islamophobic misogynistic homophobic patriarchal cis-male propaganda.

 

[PlanHex]

You're totally right. Germany should be worried about the fact that almost 0,3 % of it's population was identified by the intelligence service as right-wing extremists, and less than half of those as potentially violent.

Are you seriously saying that there could be upwards of 120.000 violent right-wing extremists in Germany and that this is not a problem? I can't even

Also, where are the intelligence service statistics about immigrant extremists where the numbers are bigger so your argument makes sense?

 

[Nas92]

Are you seriously saying that there could be upwards of 120.000 violent right-wing extremists in Germany and that this is not a problem? I can't even

Wow just wow I can't even douchcanoe huehue
Those 120000 "violent extremists" (and how many of them are labelled as such because they said the wrong thing?) weren't committing mass sexual assaults in several cities on NYE, nor did they cause a crime wave that the MSM refuses to report on. They didn't cause your streets to be unsafe for women, nor are they the ones harassing people for questioning mass immigration. Look at your widows and orphans and also do some soul searching yourself.

Also, where are the intelligence service statistics about immigrant extremists where the numbers are bigger so your argument makes sense?

Oh please. You know damn well they don't keep records over that, and how could they, anyhow? The immigrants came in by the busload, you think they had time to ask them about their religious beliefs? Ffs, they barely want to report major crimes committed by immigrants, so how do you expect anything true to be said about them?
What we do know is that even the integrated ones despise native Germans. Watch

 

[Korin]

Keep it civil guys.

 

[Hassknecht]

What we do know is that even the integrated ones despise native Germans. Watch

Yeah, how about you actually go understand the context of that video.

 

[Nas92]

Yeah, how about you actually go understand the context of that video.

How would the context change the fact that they literally say they're not interested in native Germans and nobody would miss them?

 

[Hassknecht]

How would the context change the fact that they literally say they're not interested in native Germans and nobody would miss them?

The context is that they're the worst teens you could possibly encounter. The video makes it look like those kids are the norm; they aren't.
And that their teacher is working hard on, well, teaching those kids to be decent people.

 

[PlanHex]

Wow just wow I can't even douchcanoe huehue
Those 120000 "violent extremists" (and how many of them are labelled as such because they said the wrong thing?) and blah blah blah blah

I was pointing out how the stats he posted (which were highly inaccurate) directly contradicted his point, you fucking idiot. I wasn't saying anything about the argument in general. Put down the tinfoil hat.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Everyone accepts that the Christian / White far right is mostly fucking nuts and can be just as dangerous as ISIS (see: Breivik).

Really? Are you sure? Breviks actions didn't started a debate "Is christianity a part of Germany" or "Is christianity dangerous!" or "How tolerant/violent are christians?", "Is christianity compatible with the constitution", "Can a modern state work with christianity?" or, or, or.

Look. I am not talking about radicals and if or if we should not do something against them. It goes without a saying that we should do something against any kind of violent extremism.

I am talking about the image that is associated with christianity and islam in public view. And there is no doubt that the media, namely the yellow press, is using the Islam to sell papers. Let us not even talk about the fact that the public has almost NO knowledge about the Islam. But the fact that many magazines, news papers and TV news do nothing to actually educate the population.

Most people probably can't even tell you the difference between Salafism, Sunni and Shiia Islam and where the many other groups take place in all of this mess, like Alevism and Wahabism. Or why al Nusra actually hates Hezbollah, and that many of those organisations are supported by certain Arabian states that we see as our allies. We have no problem to sell weapons to Quatar, but no one mentions the money they throw at certain groups, fighting each other and or Israel. Or why ISIS is actually fighting more moslems than Christians, even though should they not be all part of this dangerous entity called Islam? Or could it be that religion in the midle east is used as tool for politics and power just like christianity in the west? I am curious how many of our popular politicans in Euroope would win the race for leadership if they came out as muslims.

The difference is, when someone like Brevik goes on a killing spree, no christian has seriously to explain that Brevik is not part of his religion, because we mostly see him as lunatic and not as christian. Where a muslim has to make this explicility clear. That he, is not affiliated in any way with any of the terrorist organisation or fundamentals. Because at the end of the day, when the people hear Islam, it is very clear what kind of Image they have in their head. How we see other religions depends a lot on the media, unless it happens that you are really very invested in the topic. And most people aren't, that's simply a fact.

Beeing critical is one thing. And a good thing. Propaganda and generalization another. And this is what happens a lot in the western media. I am not saying that the big news papers or TV shows are outright lying. But often enough I find their reports lacking, missing important background informations, not beeing correctly researched journalism, interviewing all sides, giving an unbiased view on the situation. Sometimes to leave out certian informations can be almost as bad like lying. Something that I have seen happening during the war in Kosovo in the 1990s, and with the Yugoslavian Civil war. Many people in Germany still see the Serbians as something that can be compared to the nazis. And when I ask them why, it's simply because most of the attrocities they know about have been Serbian ones. The reality however, is more in the middle. As a Serbian I had so many times to educate people on the actuall background behind the war in Kosovo and the Yugoslavian civil war, the difference between the Yugoslavian army, the Serbian army and the Serbian paramilitairs, what role Radovan Karadžić, Slobodan Milošević and Franjo Tuđman played. Among many others.

See, when someone says that NO religious text is compatible with a democracy and the constitution and that all religious believs contain dangers. Than I agree with that. We should watch ALL religious groups closely. Christianity and the Bible is not suited for making laws in a modern society, just as Islam, Buddhism or the Jewish Tora are not suited for it.

What I am talking about, is context and proportionality.

I am not saying that we should not keep an eye on fanatics and criminals. But if we really want to see our self as a democracy and staying true to the western values we hold so deer, than we can't alow our self to be selctive or treat one group/religion as something special here.

I can not talk for France or Hungary of course. But as far as Germany goes though, we have a much more serious problem with nationalism (NPD, DFU), frustratated, confused and missinformed citizens (see PEGIDA) and right wing extremism compared to islamic terrorism. And when I am looking at the numbers of growing right wing extremism in the European Parliament and several other nations, I would say it is an European problem too.

Wow just wow I can't even douchcanoe huehue
Those 120000 "violent extremists" (and how many of them are labelled as such because they said the wrong thing?) weren't committing mass sexual assaults in several cities on NYE, nor did they cause a crime wave that the MSM refuses to report on. They didn't cause your streets to be unsafe for women, nor are they the ones harassing people for questioning mass immigration. Look at your widows and orphans and also do some soul searching yourself.

And I can tell you about a situation where my mother, a work mate of her and my self have been once almost assaulted by nazis in a dark alley after leaving work. We used to clean a gym together. Lucky for us, we managed to get away.

Do you see me runing around and calling every German dangerous? Is it really so much of a surprise that some areas that have been neglected by the politics and authorities for DECADES(!), are not very safe for the population? Seriously. There are places in Germany, where you should not venture around when you don't have the "correct" skin colour either ...



I can tell you, you as a non German from Hungary, would definetly face serious issues if you decided to move to such a place and decided to roam around just for fun.

You're totally right. Germany should be worried about the fact that almost 0,3 % of it's population was identified by the intelligence service as right-wing extremists, and less than half of those as potentially violent.

Accepting millions of immigrants from a culture nothing like our own (the main points being such things as freedom of speech, freedom of religion, secularism, equal rights for women, etc.) is a complete non-issue. What could possibly go wrong? It's all just evil nazi islamophobic misogynistic homophobic patriarchal cis-male propaganda.

Yeah ... almost. Watch out! in a couple of months you will have to follow Shariah law, my friend! Let us better make a law where muslims are forced to register and wear a badge. Just to be sure of course.

This will help, in a situation where the people of a state (Saxonia, Germany) with close to 40% xenophobia complain about 0,4 % of muslims living in their state.

PEGIDA is the problem in Germany. Not the Muslims that live here.

Of course! This is only for Germany. I can not talk for other nations. Maybe France or the UK are already a member of the ISIS caliphate.

 

[Illuminati Confirmed!]

Are you seriously saying that there could be upwards of 120.000 violent right-wing extremists in Germany and that this is not a problem? I can't even

Also, where are the intelligence service statistics about immigrant extremists where the numbers are bigger so your argument makes sense?

My bad, I missed a zero. It's 0,03 %. And I don't hear about them killing people by the hundreds, their most violent episodes usually being the trashing of a kebab shop.

Instead of intelligence services, you might try using actual intelligence. If all those Arabs and Africans are so fantastic, why are their countries hotbeds of poverty, violence and constant human rights abuses? Enlighten me.

Really? Are you sure? Breviks actions didn't started a debate "Is christianity a part of Germany" or "Is christianity dangerous!" or "How tolerant/violent are christians?", "Is christianity compatible with the constitution", "Can a modern state work with christianity?" or, or, or.

Yeah, sure, Breivik happened. That makes European christian terrorism and islamist terrorism problems of the same magnitude.... riiight?

 

[Crni Vuk]

My bad, I missed a zero. It's 0,03 %. And I don't hear about them killing people by the hundreds, their most violent episodes usually being the trashing of a kebab shop.

Now that you mention it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oktoberfest_terror_attack

The Oktoberfest terror attack was a terrorist attack with a right-wing radical background. On 26 September 1980, 13 people died and 211 were injured after the explosion of an improvised explosive device at the main entrance of the Oktoberfest in Munich, West Germany. The attack is considered to be one of the most severe acts of terrorism in post-war West Germany. The attack was attributed to the right-wing extremist and geology student Gundolf Köhler who was killed while placing the explosive device; however, doubts remain as to whether he acted alone. Repeated attempts to re-open the investigation in the years that followed the bombing have not been successful until 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSU_murders

The NSU murders (German: NSU-Morde) were a series of xenophobe murders perpetrated by German Neo-Nazi group National Socialist Underground (Nationalsozialistischer Untergrund) perpetrated between 2000 and 2007 throughout Germany, leaving ten people dead and one wounded. Primary targets were ethnic Turks, though the victims also included one ethnic Greek and one ethnic German policewoman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincenzo_Vinciguerra

Vincenzo Vinciguerra (born 1949) is an Italian neo-fascist activist, a former member of the Avanguardia Nazionale ("National Vanguard") and Ordine Nuovo ("New Order"). He is currently serving a life-sentence for the murder of three Carabinieri by a car bomb in Peteano in 1972. The investigation in this previously unsolved affair by prosecutor Felice Casson led to the revelation of "Gladio" networks around Western Europe.[1]

And if you didn't payed attention you can even see a civil war in the Ukraine going on, which has a lot of right wing extremism playing a role in. Among other fanatic groups, including criminal organisations and oligarchs.

Instead of intelligence services, you might try using actual intelligence. If all those Arabs and Africans are so fantastic, why are their countries hotbeds of poverty, violence and constant human rights abuses? Enlighten me.

Why don't you educate your self on the matter a little? For example, by opening a history book, or hell, using google to I dont know, learn something about the history of said nations? Like the middle east, or Africa. You might even learn a thing or two.

No one here said that those people are all fantastic. We, or at least I am, just saying, they are people. Nothing more. Nothing less. Not better or worse than any European or US American.

Yeah, sure, Breivik happened. That makes European christian terrorism and islamist terrorism problems of the same magnitude.... riiight?

Depends on the context I would say.

If your living in Gaza near a hot zone? Or the really dangerous places in the middle east, like Syriah/Iraq? Right wing extremism might be less of a concern for you. Granted, there radical islamism is a reality that you have to deal with, maybe daily. Moslems and Jews alike. No clue! I don't have any experience with Israel and the nations around it. I have never been there. But some of those places look beautiful, so much for sure. Would love to visit them, if not for all of those wars and conflicts.

But, if you're living somewhere in Jamel, Koblenz, Dresden? Islamist terrorism would be probably one of your smallest problems, as a liberal German, that is.


And the fun part ... it's always the same, in so many places. But Dresden in particular, is known for its neo-nazi scene. And like a clockwork, they have those "marches" each year because of the allied bombings in WW2, calling it a "hollocaust" by the allies. Yeah.

I personaly had much more issues in Germany with Nazis than Moslems. Go figure!

The problem I have, as far as Germany and terrorism goes, is this constant level of fear and threat that is created by some in the media and the public, as like we would turn over the German government to ISIS and replace the constitution with Shariah law tomorrow. You know what I mean, when I say keep a sense of proportion? With saying that, I also don't believe that Germany will become a nazi state in the near future. But, the numbers alone show, that xenophobia and right wing extremism, is a much bigger problem for our society than islamic extremism and terrorism. Again! I am talking here for GERMANY(!), not Hungary, France or what ever. Those nations might have already adboted Shariah law and behading infidels. No clue.

 

[TransgenderVaultDeweller]

I think i'm more interested in talking how the shitty illogical and immoral ideas of islam is passed onto generation onto the other.

Rather than trying to argue moot and irrelevant points if Nazi's are Worse than Islamic influence in the west.


To be honest, You wont have Sky scrappers falling town and Constant Fatawas being invoked. Nevermind the fact Whabbism and Salfeism are both right wing in of themself and when ever someone with real liberal ideological views stands up in the middle east they end up getting shot or dominated into submission.

Oh, just in case, If were going to argue if United States foreign policy is the main source for problems of today, I'd retort with the amount of Lashing and killings of gays in countries that aren't even occupied or affected by the united states what so ever, nevermind the fact minorities of different ethnic backgrounds or are apostates.

All of which have to go back between the correlation of doctrine and action. It's time we stop being intellectually and morally disingenuous and actually have serious discussion about shitty beliefs.

The points i make are pretty fair and indisputable, If people want to honestly trying to desperately defend some malignant position that just prolongs suffering of others on a grand scale, As we know more muslims are killed by other muslims than non muslims. (Though, The reasons for it are still valid in the sense that they are doing it in the name of their book and have no problems attacking outsiders anyways.) It matters not for we should be honest in that much like Christianity, Islam is just as cancerous if not even more so today with reasonable evidence to support it being so.

 

[Hassknecht]

http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/01/07/its-time-to-consider-a-curfew-for-men/
Finally somebody says it. We need a curfew for men.
That whole page is hilarious, btw.
Especially the comment section. It's so deep into Poe-territory that I still can't tell if it's elaborate satire or not.

/edit:
Oh, and an addendum to the old topic of "Feminism has terribly bad PR":
http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/blog/6381-2/
Apparently, in the UK 2/3 support gender equality, but only 7% would call themselves "feminist". But it's fine, we'll just call them "hidden feminists" so we don't have to change anything about how we present ourselves to those outside our filter bubble!

 

[theAE]

My sister is a feminist and is trying to "teach me" about it. Any advice?

 

[Hassknecht]

My sister is a feminist and is trying to "teach me" about it. Any advice?

Yeah, listen to her. If she goes off into postmodern deconstructionist philosophy you can tune out, but the rest is likely stuff you should listen to and consider.

 

[Akratus]

Haha, this is funny. Quite humerous. I hope you guys find it quite humerous too. It's british comedy so you know it's good. It also really relates to the subject matter of the thread. How are you all doing, you enjoying the thread so far?

 

[DVL]

You know, sometimes I don't really get British humor.
Terry Pratchet is apparently the shiz, but I just can't get into him either.