alec said:
Not a one-smiley post etc.
Fireside Chat
- Thread starter Brother None
- Start date
Not a one-smiley post etc.
patriot_41 said:
Heh, when you run out of arguments, you turn to insults.
See, the core difference between us is that I try to remain objective, while you operate on a preconceived notion that you're sure is right and if facts prove it wrong, that's too bad for the facts.
Per said:alec said:
Not a one-smiley post etc.
Unless you feel like playing the same goddamn games over and over again, simply delivered in different packages with different names, this is not funny at all. And that's the current situation really. The five indie games that deviate from that aren't going to change the picture anytime soon.
But hey: I don't really play games anymore, so what do I care?
patriot_41
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Mikael Grizzly said:
I didn't mean to insult you. I'm using your banana simile to illustrate my point. And yes, you are absolutely right - I do have a preconceived notion that the game is bad and I did try to give it a chance. It didn't work. While I understand, that a new design direction is more or less inevitable, I think this isn't it:
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=3541
Objectively speaking, the concepts are not badly drawn or uninspired. They just miss the point. They are not Fallout. They are generic. And now there is Samurai Armor.
alec said:
It was funny because it looked like you're saying, "Games shouldn't incorporate other elements than gameplay! Until... later!" Anyway, if you want to check out a lot of free and varied stuff, check this link I provided earlier. They post anything from samey hidden object and room escape games to experimental or artsy stuff and IF. Here's a recent one with words in it. (Stolen from literature, but hey.) Ask for recommendations if you want some. I think Luke is into this stuff too.
alec said:But hey: I don't really play games anymore, so what do I care?
I play Flash games and once or twice a year discover a game from the 90s, basically. Nothing that could ever end up on Zero Punctuation.
M
moyogo
Guest
Yeah I was trying to be snarky, but if you think it's funny like wrong/stupid tell me why.alec said:
alec said:
I said video games can raise fundamental questions, I agree they should be addressed head-on and not through an avatar. If you're already in academia or some other intellectual field games will probably never help you. They can help people who are not specialists, or have never encountered an idea, or who will not have access to a formal education (in other words most people, at least here in Amurrica).
You're missing the point on Chaplin - he used images to make a statement i.e. when he's being run through the capitalist machine. I mean I'm saying that the medium can be used to popularize ideas, or to put some common sense views into doubt, and you bring in Chaplin to try and prove that the medium is more important than the message? Dude had messages all over the place.
Mikael said:
The facts, Grizzers, are that pretty much the entire game is utter shite.
The fact that they even considered invisible ninjas says volumes.
Burning Vampiric Swords of Doomeh? Samurai Armor? That's "good art direction"? What the fuck are you talking about, Griz?
How is the "let's throw anything that's kewl" approach consistent with a good art direction?
It's a fucking utterly non-cohesive mess!
Not all of Fallout 3 misses the point, though. While it is by and large a bland and uninspired world, filled with random rule-of-cool stuff, it has its good moments. The dream-world was well-done, for instance, and I think the pristine vaults were well-done (the rusted vaults much less so, though).
Not to meantion certain collapsed buildings, such as the publishing house, with the horribly simplistic text adventure! And the highschool you first encounter (well, minus the body parts and mad loot from raider corpses).
In terms of delivering some form of philosophical message, though? Englihten me as to what philosophical messages exit, that can't be incorporated somehow into a game . . . Of course, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to philosophy, so if I just asked the impossible . . . Sowies.
In terms of games being a mix-and-match medium, well so are films, the moment dialouge intruded in the purdy moving pictures. Books, despite being pure text, are imagined in the mind (Oh God, not LARPing . . . ) -- all senses are stimulated by them. Like in a game, we even try to anticipate what is to happen . . . It's the same for comic books. (Oh, and novels do have an inventory system! Read the Road . . . It's just more suttle, as we're not concerned about how many pairs of underwear he as -- we're concerned with how much food he has, and little things like that. We don't interact with it, the character in the novel does.)
I just don't see where the lines are being drawn, here. Or why they have to be exclusive.
A pure gameplay game, though, a "pure" game, would be Centipede, Pac-Man, and Frogger. No story, no bullshit; Just play.
Games like Fallout, Diablo, System Shock, all contain cinematics, textual dialouge, narrations, purdy still pictures, many different works of art, on top of some decent game play. They become more then the sum of their parts, no?
Soon I'll sleep. Maybe when I awaken I'll make sense.
In terms of delivering some form of philosophical message, though? Englihten me as to what philosophical messages exit, that can't be incorporated somehow into a game . . . Of course, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to philosophy, so if I just asked the impossible . . . Sowies.
In terms of games being a mix-and-match medium, well so are films, the moment dialouge intruded in the purdy moving pictures. Books, despite being pure text, are imagined in the mind (Oh God, not LARPing . . . ) -- all senses are stimulated by them. Like in a game, we even try to anticipate what is to happen . . . It's the same for comic books. (Oh, and novels do have an inventory system! Read the Road . . . It's just more suttle, as we're not concerned about how many pairs of underwear he as -- we're concerned with how much food he has, and little things like that. We don't interact with it, the character in the novel does.)
I just don't see where the lines are being drawn, here. Or why they have to be exclusive.
A pure gameplay game, though, a "pure" game, would be Centipede, Pac-Man, and Frogger. No story, no bullshit; Just play.
Games like Fallout, Diablo, System Shock, all contain cinematics, textual dialouge, narrations, purdy still pictures, many different works of art, on top of some decent game play. They become more then the sum of their parts, no?
Soon I'll sleep. Maybe when I awaken I'll make sense.
Wooz said:
Van Buren haid Black Ghost stealth counterinsurgency/terrorist units that belonged to China. Well, remains of them, at least.
Environmental art, scenery design, architecture, technology, robots... that sort of thing.
Overall, yes.
Sander said:
I completely agree that there were a few very well designed things. But that's not what "good art direction" means.
See, the good designs in F3 stick out like pearls in an ocean of liquid shit.
And? The project also had a few other 'wacky' ideas, such as a space-ready manned rocket. Nevertheless, nothing as ridiculously absurd as Peter Pan land or the Wasteland Druids.
Here: Art direction
Wooz said:
I think ti cmes down to semantics - I use "art direction" to refer to how it looks graphically and aesthetically, rather than as a unified vision.
Right. Then don't scorn people whilst using an erroneous definition.
The word to refer as to how it looks graphically, for the most part, is "laughable". I haven't seen such horrible animations in years.
Unless you think that it looks great, of course, an opinion anyone's entitled to.
The word to refer as to how it looks graphically, for the most part, is "laughable". I haven't seen such horrible animations in years.
Unless you think that it looks great, of course, an opinion anyone's entitled to.
TheGM
The voice of reason
"Hunh?"- Oliver Cromwell.
I like how BN's awesome turned into this ^.
And Bro None made a Awesome point.
Not even that damn 50's. It is the world of tommorrow blown to shit and them some.
You would be surprised how many I hear people get confused and say "They didn't have Plasma gun's in the 50's"
I like how BN's awesome turned into this ^.
And Bro None made a Awesome point.
Not even that damn 50's. It is the world of tommorrow blown to shit and them some.
You would be surprised how many I hear people get confused and say "They didn't have Plasma gun's in the 50's"
Wooz said:
I think that some elements of Fallout 3 in all departments are fairly to very good. Certain elements include the design of certain environs and scenery objects, which have the Fallout aesthetic.
If you have nothing to say, kindly shut the fuck up.
Mikael said:
And I'm saying you misunderstood patriot_41 when he complained about the horrible art direction job, end of story.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Wooz said:
Angry much?
verbal crutchery aside, Ya know maybe instead of Raging to Rage(grrr) One might say why one hates and what they hate is.
and if you did....Well I'm sorry but the last 6 pages just bleeds together into one giant BAW!
steppenwanderer
First time out of the vault
well, english is not my native language, but here's my theory...
when people get fed brain-dead media ( films, games ) over time, their iq must drop at some point, so i guess the audience simply got "dumbed down" over the years. the sad thing is, that the game industry jumped on the same bandwagon as the movie industry and dumbed down their products ( and f3 is, among other things, a console port ).
compared to films like the new transformers movie, fallout 3 looks like something clever - which it isn't. the fact that it still sucks, speaks for the people who actually have enough brain cells left to be able to judge for themselves... and those people are not many, it seems. thats why so many out there think fallout 3 would be a "great game"- they simply dont know any better. they got fed too much dumbed down content over the years so they dont recognize it anymore. or never have.
that makes f1/2 players a dying breed...
when people get fed brain-dead media ( films, games ) over time, their iq must drop at some point, so i guess the audience simply got "dumbed down" over the years. the sad thing is, that the game industry jumped on the same bandwagon as the movie industry and dumbed down their products ( and f3 is, among other things, a console port ).
compared to films like the new transformers movie, fallout 3 looks like something clever - which it isn't. the fact that it still sucks, speaks for the people who actually have enough brain cells left to be able to judge for themselves... and those people are not many, it seems. thats why so many out there think fallout 3 would be a "great game"- they simply dont know any better. they got fed too much dumbed down content over the years so they dont recognize it anymore. or never have.
that makes f1/2 players a dying breed...
Plane_Walker
First time out of the vault
http://www.cracked.com/blog/defending-the-habit-10-video-games-as-modern-art/
/thread
Also, Fallout 3 is balla. Fallout 3 with mods is ballin' outta control.
l2dx9/10, you gaming neanderthals.
/thread
Also, Fallout 3 is balla. Fallout 3 with mods is ballin' outta control.
l2dx9/10, you gaming neanderthals.