Fuck It! (Fallout 4 review, rant, plead...)

[PossibleCabbage]

Yeah, I'm against BS practises like that.
If they do a free director's cut ending (much like what Mass Effect 3) then I can at least let that slide.

My overall hatred comes from the fans, they are the most annoying bunch of people on the internet. One guy message me constantly for like a month on Facebook just showing me the same screen shots of the Dog. Or a screenshot of a Deathclaw (and then he got pissed when I didn't reply, like, I have a life outside of Fallout>
He eventually deleted me cause I stopped talking to him.

And then there was the whole thing in the Facebook groups where they cried that Fallout didn't win GOTY and talked about how shit Witcher 3 was.
I was just amused that the Metal Gear fans were a lot more open that Witcher won, I gave respect to them purely because Bethboys (that's my new term for Bethesda Fanboys) didn't respect any other game than Fallout.

I think this is just an instance of whichever game is the most about "you are awesome, let's celebrate how awesome you are, what would you like to do right now oh awesome one" is going to collect some of the worst fans. That's not to say that everybody doesn't enjoy some of that feeling, but there are going to be some people who don't quite grok that it's just a fantasy and that a steady diet of that sort of thing to the exclusion of everything else is going to rot your brain.

I really think one of the big creative revolutions in video games coming is when video games start regularly telling players "no" and upbraiding them when they do something they oughtn't. I think something like that is necessary for the medium to grow.

 

[Graham2077]

I enjoyed Fallout 4 a lot more than Fallout 3, but that isn't saying much. I pretty much agree with you on everything, and the entire game is pretty much wasted potential.

I think the thing that really hurt this game is not taking any inspiration from New Vegas. To me, it seems like they're treating New Vegas as the spin-off game when it really is the other way around. Because of that, they didn't really take into consideration everything New Vegas did right and pretty much ignored it altogether. There's also the fact that Bethesda probably doesn't give a shit about the franchise and its story, characters, or being consistent. They're in it for the money and are trying to appeal to the people who enjoyed Fallout 3, so it's more of the same.

Really, the only hope of getting another good Fallout game is if Obsidian is given another chance. I seriously doubt Beth will ever be able to make a game that lives up to the standard of New Vegas or the originals.

 

[Millim]

Yeah, in all honesty I felt more "awesome" in New Vegas, going from a nobody to being in the middle of a three way war.
And to answer an earlier question, that one game we do not speak of pretty much started the downward spiral.
The saving grace truly was New Vegas, and no more than ever, there's demand for another Obsidian Fallout game.

Disclaimer: I got into the series through 3, even I was fooled on Fallout 4 being the next best thing.
If it was released a year earlier, it would have got higher praises, but considering Bethesda were cheeky enough to release it in a year where games like Metal Gear Solid V and Witcher 3 came out, it's no wonder people are going off it.

Well, at least the Wasteland series looks like it will stay on consoles as well as PC. That's if they make a third Wasteland (which I'm hoping will be Van Buren).

 

[PossibleCabbage]

Yeah, in all honesty I felt more "awesome" in New Vegas, going from a nobody to being in the middle of a three way war.
And to answer an earlier question, that one game we do not speak of pretty much started the downward spiral.
The saving grace truly was New Vegas, and no more than ever, there's demand for another Obsidian Fallout game.

The thing I like about the "special one" narratives in New Vegas (and also the original Fallout) is that it's not really due to any sort of destiny or unique characteristic about you, it's literally just that the player character just happens to be in the right (or wrong) place at the right (or wrong) time. Like the Courier is the person who can decide the fate of pretty much the entire state of Nevada mostly because you drew the assignment that wasn't a decoy (which has nothing to do with anything you decided.)

 

[RangerBoo]

The thing I like about the "special one" narratives in New Vegas (and also the original Fallout) is that it's not really due to any sort of destiny or unique characteristic about you, it's literally just that the player character just happens to be in the right (or wrong) place at the right (or wrong) time. Like the Courier is the person who can decide the fate of pretty much the entire state of Nevada mostly because you drew the assignment that wasn't a decoy (which has nothing to do with anything you decided.)

Plus your not really a "messiah" or "chosen one" type character but a "agent of change" and a "ace in the hole" for the worlds factions or their worst nightmare.

 

[Spacemunkey]

Plus your not really a "messiah" or "chosen one" type character but a "agent of change" and a "ace in the hole" for the worlds factions or their worst nightmare.

The world itself in FNV does a great job of making the characters story feel secondary to the world at large, I never once in a 1000 hrs of New Vegas felt like the world was waiting on me for things to happen.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

The world itself in FNV does a great job of making the characters story feel secondary to the world at large, I never once in a 1000 hrs of New Vegas felt like the world was waiting on me for things to happen.

The one incident I ran into this feeling in NV was one game where I got to Cottonwood Cove fairly early in the game, said hi to Anders up on the telephone pole, then went off and did things for another 20 or so hours before getting to Red Rock and being asked to go get him down. It's not like he had anywhere to go, but there probably should have been the option to let him down just because (the crucified folks in Nelson have that option, and the crucified folks in Nipton have a dialogue that indicates they would die if you tried to get them down, so the humane thing to do is just shoot them.)

 

[TheGreatCornholio]

The game focused too much on shit that doesnt matter like settlement building and not enough on things that do matter like a story that makes sense.

If I wanted to play sim city I would have got sim city

 

[MercenarySnake]

The game focused too much on shit that doesnt matter like settlement building and not enough on things that do matter like a story that makes sense.

If I wanted to play sim city I would have got sim city

Well the funny thing is, atleast in my opinion, that I thought the settlement building was half assed with some potential. To be honest I wanted good factions, story, characters, quests, ect but instead it feels like the whole game was half assed because of being conflicted about what it wants to be.

 

[Millim]

So a bit of back story, I posted on Fallout Fan groups pretty much asking their opinion of Fallout 4's Dialogue system.
It's a bit mixed so far with people either hating it or liking it but thinking it's flawed.

This is by far the most depressing reply so far

"Yea because two words to define your whole sentence is nice. Like for just example it could say have a nice day but when you click it then it says have a nice day fucker"

Edit: I realise now that this comment may be sarcastic itself.
But yeah, people like the system still... which is sad.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

The game focused too much on shit that doesn't matter like settlement building and not enough on things that do matter like a story that makes sense.

Although I appreciate your negativity towards F4, your simplification of the issue is not something that calls to me. I discovered last night, http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/ash-vs-evil-dead/s01/ Didn't even know it was a thing. Watched a bit and kept thinking back to F4. Evil dead the miniseries stays so close to it's own lore it is almost perfect, Crit and viewer score are almost perfect for mini series made 30 years later, rating better then the original. It showed me that a well told story can be stretched out to appeal to a bigger audience without violating itself. F4 is garbage. It is worse then garbage and I hate it for what it never would have been. It doesn't get any passes. Bethesda made money from it, people are allowed to be harsh. 750 mil on day one.

People didn't buy Fallout because it would be a good game or because the trailer sold them, they bought it because they had to, it's Fallout.

Star Wars 12 comes out. Darth Vader is a good guy, the force is an energy bar and the rebels are a misunderstood rock band trying to get established from the oppression of Empire Records. You could say that they focused to much on the force being an energy bar and not enough on the story, but it's core is garbage violating its own essence. Making the story "better" isn't enough. People will still buy it, because it's Star Wars.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Although I appreciate your negativity towards F4, your simplification of the issue is not something that calls to me. I discovered last night, http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/ash-vs-evil-dead/s01/ Didn't even know it was a thing. Watched a bit and kept thinking back to F4. Evil dead the miniseries stays so close to it's own lore it is almost perfect, Crit and viewer score are almost perfect for mini series made 30 years later, rating better then the original. It showed me that a well told story can be stretched out to appeal to a bigger audience without violating itself. F4 is garbage. It is worse then garbage and I hate it for what it never would have been. It doesn't get any passes. Bethesda made money from it, people are allowed to be harsh. 750 mil on day one.

People didn't buy Fallout because it would be a good game or because the trailer sold them, they bought it because they had to, it's Fallout.

Star Wars 12 comes out. Darth Vader is a good guy, the force is an energy bar and the rebels are a misunderstood rock band trying to get established from the oppression of Empire Records. You could say that they focused to much on the force being an energy bar and not enough on the story, but it's core is garbage violating its own essence. Making the story "better" isn't enough. People will still buy it, because it's Star Wars.

Funny thing about these franchises, people will always buy it because it uses the "Fallout" name and because they're Fallout "fans". Fans wouldn't enjoy watching the decline of an amazing series turned into such an abomination nor would they praise all the pathetically simplified features saying "It's improved in every single aspect from their predecessors!".
I do think the trailers played some part to get them hyped up for a game they've been waiting. Not like any criticism matters now as they have their money, I'm sure they're wiping their tears with those $100 bills.

 

[Ben Soto]

Despite all the flak I'm hearing about Fallout 4, I'm still going to buy it, and play it, and probably have fun with it. It's not going to be New Vegas. It's not going to be Undertale. It's not gonna even be STALKER. It's gonna be Borderlands X Skyrim, and I'm okay with that. As long as we get a better sequel and Bethesda learns from their mistakes, I'll be okay with that.

At the very least, we need a New Vegas 2.

 

[Millim]

Yeah, I've said before that I enjoy Fallout 4 as a shooter, but as anything else it really falls flat.
I think another issue I have with it is that it kind of has two extremes. There are some really strong parts of F4, like the mission where you got to kill that Brotherhood guy for being a synth. That was actually a pretty well written story arc with choices that kind if matter to my player.

This game has done something amazing through, it's made me appreciate New Vegas a lot better.
I will now remain cautious of any Bethesda-Fallout game, possibly wait for it to go down in price or I can buy it for £20 second hand.
I bought into the hype and I'm not sure I'm regretting it. I want to like this game more, I want to sing its praises and I want to go deeper and explore. But the thing is, Bethesda won't let me.

I don't know, I hope Obsidian make another Fallout game. If Bethesda say no to them cause they know that whatever Obsidian make will be so much better than their game, I will possibly think about refusing to buy Fallout 5 almost entirely. Which upsets me as a Fallout fan and upsets me as someone who genially likes the open world experience Bethesda offer. There's no excuse to make half baked games anymore.

There's a lot more competition now and more room to experiment. Because I play on console, the only mods I want to play are those that fix the game for me, and it shouldn't take other people to fix their game.

It upsets me to see a company break their early promise. I've heard games like Arena and Daggerfall offer a rich RPG experience, Morrowind was a good RPG and I even like Oblivion and Fallout 3 as RPGS. Yes, Fallout 3 was still a good RPG to me even if it is a bit flat at times.

But Skyrim and Fallout 4 were just kind of eh, it's weird, the more I think about F4, the more I prefer F3, the more I play F4, the more I prefer F4.
I don't trust Bethesda anymore, plain and simple. And the older I get, the more I begin to understand about game development and the more I play older games helps me understand the frustration of every old-school Fallout fan.
From the cancellation to Van Buren, to the horror that is Brotherhood of Steel, to Fallout 3's diverge from the Fallout world, to a mobile app competing with the rest of the mobile crowd, to a 4th main instalment that lacks anything that made F2 or even 3 good.

The game just upsets me, the fans upset me, Bethesda upset me.
And as I've said before, if F4 was released a year earlier, it possibly would have got a much better reception.

 

[Ben Soto]

Yeah, I've said before that I enjoy Fallout 4 as a shooter, but as anything else it really falls flat.
I think another issue I have with it is that it kind of has two extremes. There are some really strong parts of F4, like the mission where you got to kill that Brotherhood guy for being a synth. That was actually a pretty well written story arc with choices that kind if matter to my player.

This game has done something amazing through, it's made me appreciate New Vegas a lot better.
I will now remain cautious of any Bethesda-Fallout game, possibly wait for it to go down in price or I can buy it for £20 second hand.
I bought into the hype and I'm not sure I'm regretting it. I want to like this game more, I want to sing its praises and I want to go deeper and explore. But the thing is, Bethesda won't let me.

I don't know, I hope Obsidian make another Fallout game. If Bethesda say no to them cause they know that whatever Obsidian make will be so much better than their game, I will possibly think about refusing to buy Fallout 5 almost entirely. Which upsets me as a Fallout fan and upsets me as someone who genially likes the open world experience Bethesda offer. There's no excuse to make half baked games anymore.

There's a lot more competition now and more room to experiment. Because I play on console, the only mods I want to play are those that fix the game for me, and it shouldn't take other people to fix their game.

It upsets me to see a company break their early promise. I've heard games like Arena and Daggerfall offer a rich RPG experience, Morrowind was a good RPG and I even like Oblivion and Fallout 3 as RPGS. Yes, Fallout 3 was still a good RPG to me even if it is a bit flat at times.

But Skyrim and Fallout 4 were just kind of eh, it's weird, the more I think about F4, the more I prefer F3, the more I play F4, the more I prefer F4.
I don't trust Bethesda anymore, plain and simple. And the older I get, the more I begin to understand about game development and the more I play older games helps me understand the frustration of every old-school Fallout fan.
From the cancellation to Van Buren, to the horror that is Brotherhood of Steel, to Fallout 3's diverge from the Fallout world, to a mobile app competing with the rest of the mobile crowd, to a 4th main instalment that lacks anything that made F2 or even 3 good.

The game just upsets me, the fans upset me, Bethesda upset me.
And as I've said before, if F4 was released a year earlier, it possibly would have got a much better reception.

Trust me, Arena and Daggerfall are not good RPGs. Really, really not good RPGs. They're blander than even Fallout Shelter.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Trust me, Arena and Daggerfall are not good RPGs. Really, really not good RPGs. They're blander than even Fallout Shelter.

I think that's exactly it - Bethesda makes action-adventure open-world exploration games. Even if they throw small-scale RPG mechanics into them, they should start advertising their games for what they actually are.

Fallout Shelter and 4's settlement system also reveals another particular niche they're good at - base management. Maybe they should drop their RPG attempts entirely and make what they're good at. Hopefully drop the Fallout franchise rights while they're at it.

 

[Risewild]

I am not buying another Fallout game unless Bethesda starts to make them being a RPG again.
I already didn't buy Fallout 4, a friend gifted it to me on christmas, and I am not sure I will even buy the DLCs until they cost like $5 all-in-one package or something.
I had fun with old Bethesda games and I thank them for that, but I am not giving them my money again unless they release a product that I will actually enjoy.
Even buying Skyrim was a mistake since I can't play it more than a couple of hours without being bored and put it down and not play it again for a year or so.
I am poor and I rather buy games like Wastland 2 and Pillars of Eternity or The Witcher games than whatever passes for a RPG in Bethesda's mind.
It's sad that two of my favorite game Franchises belong to Bethesda and are totally ruined for me now, TES and Fallout.

 

[TransgenderVaultDeweller]

Fallout 4 is the reason why i got in the industry. That and my passion to write. Fallout 4 made me realize if mediocrity is to be celebrated and collaborated on by it's judicial peers into a grandstanding ovation. I need to at least protect the market with games that i would myself want to play and enjoy.

I seriously, Detest where the industry is heading and it can only get worse if we all don't do our due diligence and support more indie devs.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

Trust me, Arena and Daggerfall are not good RPGs. Really, really not good RPGs. They're blander than even Fallout Shelter.

There is a serious problem though with people who are fans of games not bothering to care about anything but the newest and shiniest games though. Arena is terrible, but it's at least worth poking at for a while to examining why it's terrible. Dagerfall is far less terrible, but it's basically defined by being inscrutable and tedious.

I keep coming back to this article: this http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Feli...he_gaming_industry_curate_its_own_history.php

Recently I was asked to give a short lesson about CRPG history in a game design class of about 30 students. I started by asking how many had played Skyrim. All raised their hands. Then I asked how many considered themselves to be really hardcore fans of the Elder Scrolls series. About 60% kept their hands raised. The next question: "how many of you played Oblivion"? Now only 20% still has held their hands high. Only two hands remained in the air when I asked about Morrowind, and none at all when I asked about Daggerfall and Arena.

That was not a casual audience. Those were students of a game design school, people who decided to bet their future on gaming. More than half of them had professed to be "hardcore fans of the Elder Scrolls series", yet not a single one had bothered to learn the origins of the series. I'm not talking about watching obscure foreign documentaries or reading huge and rare books - I'm talking about playing games, at the very least trying them out for like 10 minutes. And free games even! - both Arena and Daggerfall are freely available for download at Bethesda's website.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I think before just bashing Arena and Daggefall, you should keep the historical context of those games in mind. Things that seem to make no sense today, or even outright bad, become a whole new meaning when you learn that it might have been done on purpose to deliver a certain experience. Take the incredible landmass of Daggerfall as example, where they created a game where you could visit all of Cyrodiil. Most of the content in the game was generic and I think randomly created, but as far as I can tell, they did this on purpose. It's closer to a dungeon crawler than anything else.