Fuck It! (Fallout 4 review, rant, plead...)

[Marionettetc]

I find it hilarious that threads like this are still springing up. It's the same thing with the meta-critic backlash. People are apparently up in arms about how Fallout 4 "neutered" the RPG experience. Fallout 3 was never a RPG, and it's only because its fan-base was 12 when it came out that it was successful. They are both the same shitty, stupid game with the same shitty engine and writers. The only difference between 3 and 4 was the superficial inclusion of elements of other popular games that came out in the interim.

They say stuff like "The skill checks are gone!" - like they ever meaningfully impacted the gameplay.
Or, "The dialogue was been dumbed down!" nevermind that Bethesda has literally had the worst writing in the entire industry.

In some ways, I'm enjoying the backlash because it increases the chance Bethesda will let Fallout die, but on the other hand - the rage is so misguided it's laughable. The nu-critics of 4 and just the same 12 year olds who played 3, idolized it because they were dumb little kids - and then let nostalgia color their memories of it. Meanwhile, 3 and 4 are the same games and in fact, 4 is a much better game despite still being garbage.

 

[Ben Soto]

I think before just bashing Arena and Daggefall, you should keep the historical context of those games in mind. Things that seem to make no sense today, or even outright bad, become a whole new meaning when you learn that it might have been done on purpose to deliver a certain experience. Take the incredible landmass of Daggerfall as example, where they created a game where you could visit all of Cyrodiil. Most of the content in the game was generic and I think randomly created, but as far as I can tell, they did this on purpose. It's closer to a dungeon crawler than anything else.

One of the things that makes a good game good is it's ability to stand the test of time. Arena and Daggerfall just.... Don't.

 

[Crni Vuk]

And so do 99% of all the other games that happend to see a release. What's your point? That every game has to become a classic? Nonsense. What game has to be, is first fun. And in that sense, you can even say that both Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 achieved something. We are still talking about Daggerfall after all, so it has become a part of popular gaming, if not outright an classic.

It's not entirely fair to compare Daggerfall to modern games anyway. Both technology and design have progressed tremendously over the last 20 years.

I am not defending the game! I am just saying, how many of us have actually played it? Sometimes it is important to keep in mind that most of us are today spoiled. Particularly when I am thinking what kind of games I played 16-20 years ago, I can't help it but sometimes wonder what have I seen in those games. I recently tried to get back in to Gothic 2, which I think is really good game. But it just didn't work. Despite the awesome game it is.

See. I could never ever go trough wasteland 1 either. It looks in my opinion shitty, outdated, and it would have to seriously force my self trough the game, probably without enjoying it. But that doesn't mean that the game is bad. It's just that it doesn't meet my expectations. But that's not an error with the game.

 

[Dr Fallout]

I think it depends on certain people and their preferences. I can't get into Daggerfall, but Morrowind and the original Fallouts still hold up. It depends maybe on the games people play nowadays. I still play older games, so I can survive the old and sometimes clunkier gameplay.

 

[MercenarySnake]

I think it depends on certain people and their preferences. I can't get into Daggerfall, but Morrowind and the original Fallouts still hold up. It depends maybe on the games people play nowadays. I still play older games, so I can survive the old and sometimes clunkier gameplay.

Once that Daggerfall Unity conversion is done I'll be able to play through it without issues(last I played my Eve's were hurting from places like dungeons where the bricks used a ton of different little colors). Oh the framerate was all over the place and hurt my eyes as well(my eyes are sensitive to framerate changes if that makes sens e).

 

[Dr Fallout]

Interesting, could wait for that.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Interesting, could wait for that.

They already pledged the whole game to Unity, they have to set up things like the functions though. Almost everything is in 3D besides the things like trees, props, people, and enemies.

 

[Dr Fallout]

That is awesome. Might be worth trying it out.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

I think before just bashing Arena and Daggefall, you should keep the historical context of those games in mind. Things that seem to make no sense today, or even outright bad, become a whole new meaning when you learn that it might have been done on purpose to deliver a certain experience. Take the incredible landmass of Daggerfall as example, where they created a game where you could visit all of Cyrodiil. Most of the content in the game was generic and I think randomly created, but as far as I can tell, they did this on purpose. It's closer to a dungeon crawler than anything else.

I think a real problem is that a lot of portions of gaming are simply allergic to their own history. I can't at the same time claim that folks who call themselves "huge Fallout fans" because of Fo3&4 owe it to themselves to give the originals a try, or that people who really liked Dragon Age or KotOR should play Baldur's Gate II, and say that people who call themselves "huge Elder Scrolls fans" because of Skyrim shouldn't at least try Arena/Daggerfall.

It's also worth considering thinking about why Daggerfall appears to have "aged more poorly" than other games released in 1996 (Civ 2, Warcraft 2, Diablo, Mario 64, Tomb Raider, etc.) It can't be simply that modern gaming sensibilities have diverged from Daggerfall more than they have from these other games, since there are almost certainly more games released these days that superficially resemble Daggerfall than do superficially resemble Civ 2. There ought to be an ethos in this medium where we think about and we talk about games for reasons than "they are the newest shiny spectacle" or "the people trying to sell it to you are engaging in marketing."

I mean, even if I don't especially like more than one of the five main titles, the evolution of the Elder Scrolls is kind of fascinating. This is something that started out in development as a first person gladiator simulator, but turned into something else because the combat was terrible (some things don't change, apparently.)

 

[Risewild]

I loved Daggerfall and played it a lot back in the day and had a lot of fun (and frustration when we had quests to go to a dungeon and kill a specific monster and that monster would sometimes be bugged and be invisible).

I loved how I could sneak at night and unlock stores and sneak inside, unlock the vendor's chests or just pickpocket the vendor for the key to the chest and pillage until I couldn't carry anymore, then travel to the big cities and sell the loot I wouldn't wear or use, I loved how the game had money letters or something like that for when you had so much money you couldn't carry it all so the banks would give you those letters instead, I loved how if we wandered outside at night we would encounter the ghosts and eventually be killed if we didn't run to a town and scaled it's walls (because the gates would be closed for protection) while hoping to find a Inn to let us go inside, etc (the game had a lot of stuff that was logical and made sense and some not so logical stuff too, in short: "It just works" ).

Most games today don't even have 1/3 of the "immersion" (using that word that seems to have appeared lately when people talk about games) Daggerfall has, we can still sneak into stores, but the vendor's chests are all locked with unlockable without key chests and the keys are only accessible if we kill the vendor , no more be able to scale walls, etc.

Average people these days like simple and easy games, instant gratification and new and shiny things, they have fun with those things and then move on to the next big new shiny thing, that doesn't work for me because I seem to be "outdated", but it saddens me to see the future of the world if this trend continues to get worst and worst... I fear that the future predicted so ridiculously in the movie Idiocracy is actually going to happen one day. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)

 

[Crni Vuk]

I think a real problem is that a lot of portions of gaming are simply allergic to their own history. I can't at the same time claim that folks who call themselves "huge Fallout fans" because of Fo3&4 owe it to themselves to give the originals a try, or that people who really liked Dragon Age or KotOR should play Baldur's Gate II, and say that people who call themselves "huge Elder Scrolls fans" because of Skyrim shouldn't at least try Arena/Daggerfall.

Well, no clue if you have to, but trying those games, can't hurt. They are dirt cheap anyway. And in some cases, you can get them even for free.

I think the point is, if you're really in to game design, than you should eventually really play those games and get your self familiar with the design behind it. If only for the purpose of learning.

The problem isn't even if you're a true Fallout/Elder Scrolls fan or not. It's just when you start to talk about a certain topic. Like the evolution of those games, or something regarding the design decisions, like what actually a dungeon crawler is or the main difference between Fallout 1 and Fallout 4. And people simply have no clue what you're talking about, looking at you like as you would be a cave-man, but also want to explain you how you're wrong. It at least helps to know the old games, if you really see your self as a fan.

 

[ElderMaxson]

People just claim games are too old for them to enjoy, yet enjoy artistic indie crap that isnt all that good with worse graphics. I think its just an excuse. If you gave a Bethout fan an old Fallout game with a modded-away title and told them it was an indie game or something they would play it.

Its ridiculous and feed perfectly into the modern issue of PR over actual gameplay. It is sad that how you advertise the game now determines whether people buy it or not, and the whether the game is good doesnt matter anymore.

If in exchange for games becoming a small and "nerdy", unpopular hobby, games become good again, then a nerd I am. If enjoying games that actually have effort put in them makes me a n outdated old codger then Im fine with being an outdated old codger.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Everyone worries too much. Why assume that the game industry is heading straight into hell and high water, doomed to ruin gaming forever? The modern mainstream market will collapse on itself eventually, if it keeps going the way it's going now.

Then we get a golden age of gaming, where the devs that were indie now go on to rule the market and we get an extended era of well-made games, and then it grows back into the same thing as now, and the cycle repeats.

Sound about right? It's exaggeration to expect Bethesda to be able to maintain heading into Fallout 26 with different colours of super mutants and even more power armour. It can't go that way forever. Everything can change in an instant! (fuck, I just quoted Fallout 4, kill me now)

 

[Crni Vuk]

It ruined Fallout, isn't that already enough? And I saw a couple of really great and old franchises killed over time. Commandos, Jagged Alliance, Command & Conquer, almost X-Com (remember that fist person shooter project?), and more. It's not all doom and gloom. But still.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

It ruined Fallout, isn't that already enough? And I saw a couple of really great and old franchises killed over time. Commandos, Jagged Alliance, Command & Conquer, almost X-Com (remember that fist person shooter project?), and more. It's not all doom and gloom. But still.

It's not that bad. People act like Bethesda will hang on to Fallout for all eternity, or at least for the entirety of their gaming lifetimes. I don't even think they'll last that long! But then again my thoughts matter zip-zero for shit, so I'll just hang back with this opinion. We could use a little more optimism around here, though.

Also, Command & Conquer was the favourite part of gaming in my childhood. Don't bring it up, I'm still bitter.

 

[MercenarySnake]

It ruined Fallout, isn't that already enough? And I saw a couple of really great and old franchises killed over time. Commandos, Jagged Alliance, Command & Conquer, almost X-Com (remember that fist person shooter project?), and more. It's not all doom and gloom. But still.

Well Thief is heading down that route after the flop Thief 4 was, especially since it was straying away from Thief 1 and 2. I feel as if we're getting closer to another sort of crash.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Perhaps out of it games that try to be good will come out?

 

[Gaddes]

Oh Beth fanboys are the worse. I got death threats, DEATH THREATS!, was told to kill myself and called names all because I criticized Fallout 4 by calling it fast food, over hyped and overrated or pointing out its major flaws. Bethboys are extremely mentally stunted.

Your not wrong Boo. Bethesda "RPG'S" are the McDonalds of role playing games. Fine every once and awhile, but I just don't get how people sink 400 hours into the game. As for the death threats. That doesn't surprise me. Bethesda has an utterly psychotic fan base at times lol

 

[Millim]

Yeah, most I've don on Skyrim is like 70 hours, that's with DLC included.
I've felt like I've pretty much done everything already.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Your not wrong Boo. Bethesda "RPG'S" are the McDonalds of role playing games. Fine every once and awhile, but I just don't get how people sink 400 hours into the game. As for the death threats. That doesn't surprise me. Bethesda has an utterly psychotic fan base at times lol

Every fan base does, even the originals fanbase can be psychotic, only it's rare and when it does happen we in no way endorse it.