Full perk list:

[MKSaibot]

Almost everything?

So no substantive response. Ok.

Did they not learn with Skyrim? This game is shaping up to be Skyrim with guns!

What is wrong with the system?

The lack of customization, classes and builds?

What "build" do you want to do?

To not be "Super Mega Jesus Man/Women" who is the God of everything.

So. ..don't be? I'm still not sure I understand your concrete complaint about the system in place. Snark is fine, but not if you're actually trying to have a conversation about the merits/faults of something.

Plus the lack of Perks and traits. I like to build my character a certain way but Beth took out a lot of that freedom. The perk tree is near identical to that of Skyrim's.

Yes it is similar but its not the same either.

In Skyrim you only leveled by Skills, their are no Skills in Fallout 4, just SPECIAL and Perks. You get XP the same way you got XP in Fallout 1, 2, 3, and NV. Its honestly more customizationable and gives you more options.

In Skyrim to get a specific build you had to grind certain skills up for the build. With Fallout 4's system you don't, you get XP the same way in previous Fallout games, but you have access to the Perks you want earlier on, and can invest in those Perks which also grant different properties.

Am I trying to tell you guys that its better then Fallout 1 and 2's system? Again no, we are missing Traits and Skills, Fallout 4 just has SPECIAL and Perks, but it is better then Skyrim's system.

 

[Walpknut]

Can you really call something "customizable" if there is literally no limit to how many of them you actually get except stopping giving a shit?

 

[Crni Vuk]

Almost everything?

So no substantive response. Ok.

Uhu, aren't we touchy?

Well to make it short, it doesn't support really any kind of role playing, unless you see different types of dealing damage as role playing. But can just the choice between a fireball or the use of a sword to kill that big bad Dragon infront of you be enough to consider it role playing? I would say no, but that's me. I am well aware about it that I am part of a very special generation. The kind of generation that has this ridiculous idea that role playing in a game actually comes from the game(-world) reacting to the stuff your character does and says in the game. That is pretty much my main issue with Skyrim - And most of Bethesdas games. The mechanics they create in their game are for the most part, combat oriented mechanics which usually don't have more depth than most Battlefield or CoD games these days.

The other issue is that Skyrim is fucking unbalanced with the skills and how you level them. See at the countless of mods with the sole purpose of making the weak/underutilized skills more usefull. Like most of the magic system. Seriously, the whole magic system alone is so underwhelming and dull in it's use that it is no surprise that it feels like a glorified version of ranged combat. Most of the time you end up using just 2 or 3 spells and that's it, and even those are pale in comparison with the melee and bow combat. The fact that the whole perk/skill system is so focused around combat can really lead to some pretty fucked up situations early in the game and hurt your experience, for example if you concentrate to much on leveling up the perk trees that have no direct use in combat, like alchemy, pickpocketing, the armorcrafting and so on.

Last but not least, the dull perk trees that are simply clones from each other. See twohanded, one handed and duall-combat as examples. Those trees are almost like direct clones from each other, which really takes any real diversity and depth out of the game. Same with the heavy and light armor trees.

There is probably a lot more stuff that I just can't remember right now, but honestly, the stuff alone that I mentioned is enough already. And if Fallout 4 really took Skyrim as blue print ... than I am pretty sure that their skill system will be just as fucked up when it comes to role playing.

 

[MKSaibot]

Can you really call something "customizable" if there is literally no limit to how many of them you actually get except stopping giving a shit?

No their is no limit, but I personally never go past level 50 with my character builds in Skyrim, especially with how you level up by the skills you use. At level 50 in Skyrim you have a specific build, and its really just tough to continue leveling past 50 unless you purposely go out of your way to focus on other skills.

Their is no level cap in Fallout 4, so on paper that sounds ridiculous, but I mentioned Fable and I will mention Fable again. If Fallout 4 was like Fable it would be a problem, I wouldn't even play the game. One of the things that really hurt Fable 2 and 3 in my opinion is that you could max everything out and quickly. Their was not a specific build.

Let me just say this, if you take the time to say get 7 Strength, 8 Agility, 5 Int, 5 Perception, 6 Luck, 4 or 5 Endurance your character is going to literally be ridiculous in the game. Why? How? Because if you have that SPECIAL spread or something similar, that means you have invested several points (several levels) into Perks. If you haven't, and just spent all those points into your SPECIAL then your character is going to be weak (why anyone would that is beyond me though).

Wow as of writing this I just realized something, shit.

SINCE it is NOT like Skyrim you will continuously gain XP as you play. You do NOT gain XP in Skyrim by just playing, no, you gain xp from Skills in Skyrim by leveling those said skills up. So if your level 50 for example, even without the soft cap being in place, you still would haft to go out of your way to level that much past 50. I can play a level 50 character, through all the content, plus with mods that add content and not level much past 50.

However,
In Fallout 4, the more you play, the more you gain, with no level cap you will eventually max everything out.

All we can hope for is that the leveling gets VERY slow past level 50. That XP you gain off killing things, etc takes a long time. Otherwise, yes you will have a maxed out Fable character. Fantastic, very cool.

Well I won't worry about it until I play it, the leveling could be slow enough that by the time you do max everything out you have literally seen everything. It just hurts the replay value a little. I loved all my play through's through Fallout 2 and New Vegas, New Vegas rewarded different character builds along with Fallout 2.

Now with Fallout 4, I don't know, are we destined for just one character? One long play through?

 

[Crni Vuk]

Well, we have no clue HOW quickly it will be in Fallout 4 exactly, that is true. But didn't that spanish leak said something about being over level 25 or something in no time?

 

[Walpknut]

So like usual we have to pretend we have a level cap. Bethesda, Multi Award Winning Game Developers.

 

[MKSaibot]

Well instead of making a thread like this that I made back before New Vegas released that turned out kind of fun,

http://www.nma-fallout.com/showthre...-movie-or-game-character-for-your-F-New-Vegas

I will haft to make

"What Greek God or demi God would you create in Fallout 4?"

lol

 

[The_Guide]

The question is "Can Obsidian fix the game in NV sequel?"
Remove dialogue wheel and rewrite the conversation system.....add skills......add traits......bethesda really waste them a lot of time.

I'll make a FPS build since there's no hope in writing.

 

[Kilus]

Obsidian can use dialogue wheels to make an awesome RPG. See Alpha Protocol. The Dialogue wheel itself while not ideal is not the problem with Bioware/Bethesda.

 

[Walpknut]

Alpha Protocol is a more "cinematic" game tho. The dialogue cross doesn't fit fallout no matter how much you try. Better to discard and go back to a simple list.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Exactly what I am thinking as well!

If you really want to exploit all the nuances of let us call it the old school RPGs, than you have no other choice really as using the good old lists.

Games like Deus Ex, Alpha Protocol and many more show very nicely that dialog-wheel-cross-thingy or what ever you want to call it isn't the reason for bad writing - dull developers who don't think the IQ of their average consumers is higher than from a 5 year old brain dead zombie toddlers is - but if you really want to give people choices that are reflected by the skills you chose, or even classes than you really should follow simply the design that has proven it self for the last 2 decades.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Oh boy the majority of perks are based on percentages, would it kill them to add good perks that are unique?

 

[RangerBoo]

Hey wait a minute! This perk tree reminds me a lot of Borderlands skill tree! First Mass Effect and now Borderlands!? How many more games are you going to rip off Bethesda?

 

[MercenarySnake]

Hey wait a minute! This perk tree reminds me a lot of Borderlands skill tree! First Mass Effect and now Borderlands!? How many more games are you going to rip off Bethesda?

Hmmm now that you mention it the perk tree does look a lot like the Borderlands skill tree. Never really thought about it since my mind was focused on the Mass Effect dialogue wheel. At least it had multiple questions to better enlighten you and those special good and evil responses from leveling up charm or intimidate. They managed to make it worse.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

Yeah, despite their claims that the perks would be more interesting than just percentage increases, that's like the majority of perks right there.

The rest are just straight-up nonsense boosts.

Like cheat codes, only you don't have to pay to unlock them.

 

[Theinnerfish]

Damn... These perks are boring...

 

[Walpknut]

Before every level up gave you skill points, every 5 skill points gave you a passive improvement to how your guns worked, how much meds healed, they even allowed you to craft new things in New Vegas with Perks serving as a special reward every 2 levels. Stats also gave you passive boosts to them, so taking the Stat boosting meds had multiple uses and benefits. Now everytime you level up you are just getting the passive increase because perks are pulling double duty as both Dumbed down Skills and Lame perks. They even gate things as basic as Crafting. Meds are mostly just Exp Boosters because temporary Stat boosts don't have any direct effect except some rather superficial combat performance boosts, in the case of Mentats they are straight up just Exp Boosts.... This system is just grindy nonsense, and very badly designed.

 

[The_Guide]

There's a perk to increase radiation weapon damage, but I didn't see perks to increase energy weapon damage. Did I miss it?

 

[MKSaibot]

I finally found this, you guys should give this a read,

https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/fallout-4s-character-system/2015/09/24/31

"What’s important is that each of these Perks is actually a mini Perk tree*, with multiple ranks that also do new things. Gun Fu above allows even more damage the more targets you select, increasing to instant Critical Shots. Gunslinger has ranks that up the range of pistols, add a chance to disarm enemies, and even instant limb crippling shots"

Gunslinger = 4 Perks from previous Fallout games

That is what I am talking about, their are Perks that we obviously know just up the rank of the first rank (Gun Nut, etc). However, their is hidden depth in that Perk Chart.

Most people think Gunslinger just ups the damage on pistols alone, that would suck dick, and I wouldn't play the game.

 

[Crni Vuk]

So? Than you get a small range increase, or damage from hitting more criticals. Is that real depth? Or is that just fake depth? Like in Skyrim. Cripling your enemy is hardly important in Fallout 3, at some point you will do so much damage and overpower everything that cripling shoots become uninteresting. Fallout 4 seems to be a very fast paced game. So unless the fight with every enemy is like 15-20 min. I doubt it will be really important in the long run. It's just what I think, but I feel there is a lot of fake depth in the system, because there is no real complex mechanic behind it as far as I can tell. Like different types of damage, immunities, cooldowns, special effects either trough stat boosts or negative effects on skills/stats.

Bethesda abandonded that kind of idea a long time ago and burried it with Morrowind. Which was the last game that actually had a lot of depth in the game mechanics. And no, I am not just talking about "why can't I hit this enemy in front of me!" because it had stats working in the background. I am talking of magical effects, of which some could be even permanent if the player didn't fix those in time! Which mad fighting certain enemies, even with higher leveled characters a challange. Or in turn, allowed the player to be very succesful if he knew the right spells.

But even if the Perks in Fallout 4 have some depth to it, it doesn't really change that pretty much all of the things you get in the game are combat related, either directly or indirectly.