Game Informer Fallout 3 article scans

[Nim82]

I don't understand why you make the assumption that Fallout 3 sucks, though. You say people shouldn't buy a bad game; people shouldn't support developers that rely on first-week sales of overhyped games; that developers should make a good game.

This is all true. But on what basis do you come to the conclusion that a game we've seen a handful of screenshots and an early cinematic of is bad? How can you automatically assume that the whole game takes place in the sewers of washington D.C., fighting sledgehammer-wielding mutants with a portable nuke catapult? Are you so afflicted with tunnel vision that you would assume you know everything about this game from such little information?

We are making this assumption because we have been here before, multiple times. We have learnt to read the articles, and de construct the spin. FO3 may not be a bad game per se, but it is evident to a good number of us that it has lost the essence of the FO universe. There's more to FO than some acronyms and a few overused reference points. If a bloke dons a skirt, does that make him a woman? No. Having VaultBoy, SPECIAL, and Powerarmour doesn't automatically qualify it as being FO.

Also note some of us are old school TES fans who have been let down sorely by their lack lustre releases on that end, personally I was ok with Morrowind, but Oblivion and SI were terrible - hardly a good precedent for FO3 if they can trash their own flagship product so badly is it? And before anyone rushes to the defence of Obliv do note that on all the major review sites its popularity is now lower than MW, funny that.

 

[Kazhiim]

I mean, I get the argument that it isn't Fallout 1 or 2. That's generally to be expected when the game is developed by an entirely different development team years after the games were developed and the technological limitations faced have been overcome. But that doesn't mean the game is going to bad.


You guys are lucky, really. I was a Bungie fan, back when they were the little-known developers of Marathon and Myth. I loved the Battletech franchise, back before Mechassault.

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

Let me just say this.

There is NO WAY, AT ALL, outside of some small Japanese Indy shops, that we are EVER going to see a Isometric game again.

EVER!

White Wolf seems to be doing pretty nicely for themselves.

- Dialogue... Can you honestly tell me the difference between Fallout's dialogue system and Oblivions? They seem remarkably similar to me.

Branching dialogue a la Fallout is not possible with the Ob dialogue system. It would require heavy recoding, Beth's made it clear they don't care.

- That's odd, I always got the impression that the vault suit was more or less a denim jacket and blue jeans. But yeah, it's supposed to be more than that, I know. But stylistically, it always looked like that to me.

As for what the Vault Suit is, its a mixture of cloth and rubber. I'll go take an SS from the intro movie in FO2. Notice how the suit has wavy lines and seems coarse as if made from cloth?

- I must be missing the vault / pip thing? On page 4... I see a guy with a Vault 101 coat on and a damaged rifle across his back? Or is that Page 3?

Yeah, you're one page behind. If you want literal pages, the suit is on 54, and the PipBoy on 55.

- Again, turn based is dead. The current real-time / AP hybrid is as close as we're going to get, I fear. I like the idea. From a melee perspective, it makes it sound like you'll be grappling with the target and every so often getting off a really good hit when you can. And I can't wait to abuse the sneak attack system, if any. Sneak Attack to the head? Woo!

Turn based is dead only for those who don't have patience. There's still plenty of people around that play D&D, and other various d20 based games. However small that community may be.

- Eh. The more I hear about the Fatboy the more I think they might be adding it just for Multiplayer Deathmatch, or something.

Multiplayer Deathmatch.

Yeah, I'd love to add some more comments but well, I think what you said sums it up more easily than the thought required to add on a point.

 

[Maphusio]

I mean, I get the argument that it isn't Fallout 1 or 2. That's generally to be expected when the game is developed by an entirely different development team years after the games were developed and the technological limitations faced have been overcome. But that doesn't mean the game is going to bad.

I agree with you, this game Beth is producing might be fun... BUT ITS NOT FALLOUT.

That's the point. We want Fallout 3 and I as well as others will settle for no less.

Is it right that Bethesda can roll in and create something entirely different than the original two products and call it Fallout 3? I don't think so, what's the point of calling this Fallout 3 other than for the sales?

 

[Tora]

I don't understand why you make the assumption that Fallout 3 sucks, though. You say people shouldn't buy a bad game; people shouldn't support developers that rely on first-week sales of overhyped games; that developers should make a good game.

This is all true. But on what basis do you come to the conclusion that a game we've seen a handful of screenshots and an early cinematic of is bad? How can you automatically assume that the whole game takes place in the sewers of washington D.C., fighting sledgehammer-wielding mutants with a portable nuke catapult? Are you so afflicted with tunnel vision that you would assume you know everything about this game from such little information?

You misunderstand. We did not say the game was not fun. We said its *not* *fallout 3*. There is a difference. We would most likely enjoy the game if we were looking for an Action-RPG set in a post-nuclear apocalyptic world.... that was not touted to be a Fallout Sequel.

 

[Kazhiim]

Look around, read these very forums the answers are there for those whom are interested in understanding them.

Would you trust what the inquisition had to say about pagans and witches?

People here have nothing but negativity for Fallout 3. People are allowed to have their opinions. But this is the last place I'd look to for information on the game. Everything here is bias.

 

[Kazhiim]

That's the point. We want Fallout 3 and I as well as others will settle for no less.

You must realize you're not going to get every single thing you want, though.

I've heard several times now that it's a gamer's duty to support the development of good games. If it's still a good game, why not buy it?

 

[Tora]

- Let me just say this.

There is NO WAY, AT ALL, outside of some small Japanese Indy shops, that we are EVER going to see a Isometric game again.

EVER!

Small japanese indy Shop? Or developer? Either way you're off, as Bandai's splinter company banpresto will be releasing yet another isometric game, and please don't try to tell me Bandai's a small Japanese Company or that their games will only be carried in small Indy shops. I'm a bit more out of date on the western-developed gaming scene as they don't usually go with my tastes, but if I recall they've recently brought over quite a few japanese developed iso-metric styled games.

 

[Maphusio]

Look around, read these very forums the answers are there for those whom are interested in understanding them.

Would you trust what the inquisition had to say about pagans and witches?

People here have nothing but negativity for Fallout 3. People are allowed to have their opinions. But this is the last place I'd look to for information on the game. Everything here is bias.

As opposed to???

There is NO SUCH THING in life as non-bias... I'm not sure how long you have been about but you should know that now if you do not all ready.

Your comparison is NOT fair what so ever. This community has been around since 2001. I think you would be doing yourself a disservice by ignoring what it has to say in its defense of your statements.

Is NMA your only source for information? No, not at all I would never EVER go just one place for information, that would be down right ignorant and naive.

 

[Tora]

That's the point. We want Fallout 3 and I as well as others will settle for no less.

You must realize you're not going to get every single thing you want, though.

I've heard several times now that it's a gamer's duty to support the development of good games. If it's still a good game, why not buy it?

In an extreme example, would you buy the BEST anti-virus software in the world if it was advertised as an operating system? Because in a way that's what you're asking of the people who wanted the fallout 3 that was developed, abandoned, and picked up again with a promise that its roots will be respected.

 

[Maphusio]

That's the point. We want Fallout 3 and I as well as others will settle for no less.

You must realize you're not going to get every single thing you want, though.

I've heard several times now that it's a gamer's duty to support the development of good games. If it's still a good game, why not buy it?

Because its a lie pally. Pure and simple. What we have been presented with is NOT Fallout 3... It's that simple, it really is. I won't support Bethesda's decision to ignore the existing community and rape the name of Fallout for their personal gain.

 

[Kazhiim]

Of course it isn't. But then, anybody who comes here and tries to argue against the collective opinion of NMA'ers is a Bethesda plant, aren't they?

 

[Tora]

Of course it isn't. But then, anybody who comes here and tries to argue against the collective opinion of NMA'ers is a Bethesda plant, aren't they?

Of course, just like how every NMA'er is labelled a fallout fanatic or a PnP RPG freak. As is apparently your opinion.

 

[Maphusio]

Of course it isn't. But then, anybody who comes here and tries to argue against the collective opinion of NMA'ers is a Bethesda plant, aren't they?

Please, understand us before you judge us. Now if only America would follow that motto eh?

In an extreme example, would you buy the BEST anti-virus software in the world if it was advertised as an operating system? Because in a way that's what you're asking of the people who wanted the fallout 3 that was developed, abandoned, and picked up again with a promise that its roots will be respected.

I'm not following you.

 

[Kazhiim]

What we have been presented with is NOT Fallout 3... It's that simple, it really is. I won't support Bethesda's decision to ignore the existing community and rape the name of Fallout for their personal gain.

Have you ever played Shadow of the Colossus?

It's a beautiful game. It squeezes all the processing power it can out of the Playstation 2. It's innovative in both gameplay and presentation. I daresay it's one of the best games on the PS2.

But it's not ICO 2.

Wouldn't it have been a shame if nobody had bought it because of that?

 

[Punck_D]

- Let me just say this.

There is NO WAY, AT ALL, outside of some small Japanese Indy shops, that we are EVER going to see a Isometric game again.

EVER!

Who would have been thinking in 1997 that one creative turn-based CRPG in isometric view would hit the market?

- Dialogue... Can you honestly tell me the difference between Fallout's dialogue system and Oblivions? They seem remarkably similar to me.

Now this is just stupid. Fallout has complex dialogue trees based on character stats. Oblivion has weird linear installation routines without any real choices. I cannot understand how you missed that.

- That's odd, I always got the impression that the vault suit was more or less a denim jacket and blue jeans. But yeah, it's supposed to be more than that, I know. But stylistically, it always looked like that to me.

So you are blind?

- I must be missing the vault / pip thing? On page 4... I see a guy with a Vault 101 coat on and a damaged rifle across his back? Or is that Page 3?

Yes, you are blind. And somehow i believe you didn't play the goddamn games.

- Again, turn based is dead.

TB-system is claimed to be dead because of casual gamers like you.Would you care to explain why, in your innocent eyes, TB is dead?

- Eh. The more I hear about the Fatboy the more I think they might be adding it just for Multiplayer Deathmatch, or something.

For fuck's sake, read the article. You can't be serious, do you really expect a deathmatch mode? Are you that high?

I LIKE Oblivion, even with it's faults.

Which explains a lot.

And the limited stuff I've seen so far makes me think that the setting is going to be perfectly fine.

I already asked you if you are blind, so this is getting old.

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

I guess I was wrong on the account of the Vault Suit being partially cloth. It's made entirely out of rubber/latex/generally strechy material.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

Of course it isn't. But then, anybody who comes here and tries to argue against the collective opinion of NMA'ers is a Bethesda plant, aren't they?

Well, it's roughly the equivalent of walking into a biker bar and knowingly wearing the wrong colors and saying the wrong things. you're either looking for a fight, or just desperate to get hurt.

There's a reason this place has the reputation it does, and it's not because of the free cookies and cheery hellos.

 

[quietfanatic]

The vault suit is a jumpsuit people.

 

[Xython]

1. Problem that you seem to understand

2. The style of battle + the new design of the orc.... I mean, the super-mutant.. and that other thing that I forgot the name of. the AP + called shot seemed almost like a bullet-time thing added as an afterthough... it feels worse, at least to me, to have something like that where you shoot while paused (at least that's what it read like to me) in battle.

3. True, fallout isn't that non-linear if you look at it in terms of the *main* goal, but you really can't help that with programmed games. Only with PnP games can you truly get a really good non-linear gameplay. However, what was important about Fallout is the all the sidequests *could* effect the ending, as well as how you approached the ending.

4. Er, FPS, First Person View, Shooter. What more do you need to see the FPS portion? Yes they've said they're working on a 3rd person view, but until they show a good 3rd person view and game play in that all we've seen from that one battle screen looks just like a FPS no?

5. I don't really know if I'd like a game developed with stuff like the Xbox achievement points in mind.... just so they can make certain things near-impossible to do. Fallout didn't really have anything like that. If you knew something was there, you could find it, do it, no particular player skills needed. Also, given the fact that I doubt the console version is going to be using a mouse, I really doubt I'll be able to do stuff like finding random items lying in non-obvious places, unless its done in the usual I-don't-actually-see-the-items-so I'll-have-to-walk-along-the-wall-pressing-the-search-button-repeatedly-style, which would likely mean the interesting descriptors for things will no longer be there like in fallout 1/2, though I *could* be wrong and they have a work around for this.

6. Er.... historical background? Setting? You *can't* just whip out new allies/enemies and such out of thin air with disregard to the original setting. Well, you *could*, but that's why people don't consider Fallout: Tactics or BoS to be canon.

2. Well, what would you suggest as an alternative. I'm all ears.

Lets just start with the turn based thing though. Cause AP only really works in a turn based environment.

Do we all understand why we can't have a turn based game? Not for a modern audience, anyway. 3D games are too complex to do turn based. It just wouldn't work.

Now that we've gotten THAT out of the way...

Can we also see why doing stuff like eye-shots and whatnot in a real time environment would also be a very bad idea?

For one, how would you change from standard shots to eye shots? Would your character randomly try to get eye shots if he had a "good" chance? Would you have to trigger it? Would you just set your character to constantly aim for the eyes?

None of those are really great solutions. I don't remember Fallout Tactics that well, but isn't that something similar to how they did it? Basically you interrupted the action and told your character to do a called shot, and they just kept trying until you told them something different?

I barely remember it, but I do remember it was clunky as all heck, and I just resorted to whipping out a shotgun and unloading instead.

The VATS system seems to be a better way. By default, you sit there and shoot. This isn't a twitch game though -- your shots, presumably, will still have a %% chance to hit or be deflected by armor. And you won't be able to just wail on the left mouse button and go to town -- the game will no doubt be balanced, and bigger weapons will require reloading, prepping for shots, etc.

The AP system seems like a great way to add the old eye / groin / etc shots to the system. You still shoot as fast as you would normally -- and lets be honest, in a firefight, you're not going to "store up" power or whatever. You're going to be shooting like mad. And every so often, when your AP charges up -- which does charge faster if you take a breather -- you can make an aimed shot for your opponent's vitals.

It seems like a much more intuitive way to do things to me. And more balanced. I loved just sitting there outside of San Francisco, getting into random fights and shooting idiots in the eyes, but I will be the first person to admit it wasn't balanced at all.

The combination of AP + real time + recharge delays + the enemy being able to do it right on back makes me think it'll be much more balanced than before.

3. They've already announced 9-12 endings. That's NOT including any modifications to the ending. I'm sure they're planning on going over what happens to the various villages and whatnots that you visit during the game. They're following Fallout 1 and 2 too closely to ignore that.

4. I can see your point. But I wouldn't call Oblivion a FPS, and it's mostly first person -- since the 3rd person sucks. Badly. But they're redoing that for Fallout 3.

5. I think you might be misunderstanding the Achievements system. This isn't going to be "Killed 100,000 Deathclaws". This is going to be "Saved the town of Bone Gulch by talking the raiders into joining the town." and "Saved the town of Bone Gulch by Slaughtering all the raiders" and "Saved the town of Bone Gulch by scaring the Raiders away."

And yeah, there will be some hard ones. Like "Killed every single living person in Washington DC." So? There were challenge guides in Fallout, too. Like "Killed every single NPC in the game" and "Never killed anyone."

Same difference.

6. I still don't see the point. There's no way anyone here would EVER consider Fallout 3 to be cannon.

I mean honestly. Think hard. Can you think of ANYTHING Bethesda could have done to make everyone think this is a "real" Fallout game. OTHER than just releasing Van Buren or a updated Fallout 2 engine?

I can't either. So with that in mind, I don't think any of the comparisons to BOS or FOT are valid, at least not yet. Especially since we haven't even gotten much information about the game at ALL yet.


BTW, am I the only one that considers the whole "zoom in and watch a gorey death in slow motion" to be the natural evolution of the Bloody Mess trait? I loved watching things go FZZZZT in Fallout 2 with the bigger guns and that trait on.