Game Informer Fallout 3 article scans

[Tora]

Ok... for all you numbnuts bemoaning the nuclear catapult...

The 50's and 60's had all kinds of research going into portable nuclear devices.
The Davy Crockett was a portable nuclear launcher that was developed in the 50's with the threat of the cold war looming...

check it out...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

I don't necessarily think its a great idea for inclusion as a fallout weapon... I'm just trying to show that they didn't just pull this idea outa there collective asses

Well ya, cept that you know, the thing in there kinda needed 3 people to launch, and it wasn't exactly close-range or short range combat material....2+ km? not exactly the firing range I'm kinda expecting with a fallout piece of work if you know what I mean.

And seriously, would you be using a mini-nuke in the aftermath of a post-nuclear apocalypse? *especially* someone coming out from a VAULT?

 

[generalissimofurioso]

This is hopeless. I think just to spite everyone here I'll buy 10 copies of Fallout 3.

Then I will get my hands on as many copies of Fallout 3 as I can and setting them ablaze! (Just as I did with BOS... good times)

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

<snip>

I'm sorry, I'm usually nice to the little/new guy because I've been in that position alot myself - probably still am for all I know, but that was really bad dude.

I mean seriously bad.

 

[Kazhiim]

I personally like the way it looks.

 

[Xython]

I'm not any sort of planted person. I started visiting NMA around the time the Fallout 3 trailer was debuting to see what the reaction in the fan community was. I kept visiting because there was some interesting criticism, but now I'm horrified with the way everyone is lashing out.

Being a hardcore Metroid fan I had a similar reaction when Metroid Prime was revealed to be in first person. I waited ten years for that game as well, but I was satisfied with the end result because I realized it was a different take on an already perfect formula. I even screamed bloody murder when they added multiplayer to Metroid Prime 2, but I enjoyed it. Having Metroid Prime Hunters be almost exclusively multiplayer didn't even phase me.

Nothing I'm saying is changing anything, but it's almost making me ashamed to say I like the Fallout games now.

Notice how I never said my opinion on the game because I can't make it based on a few pages in a magazine and a second-hand account of the game.

I've played and liked Metroid and I found nothing wrong with the first person perspective. It's a platformer gone first person shooter, nothing disgraceful about that. BUT, Fallout is a down through the bone marrow deep pen and paper based cRPG, and the shift from pen and paper to FPS is.. impossible.

As for Bethesda at the moment, I can only say that I'm deeply dissapointed in them, where I at least expected a droplet of competence, I was given just what I had recieved last time pre-Oblivion release.

It's hard to have a company producing good games when the main programmer is a console junkey. That's right, Todd Howard is a major console gamer. I still remember the Oblivion photographs and how he mentioned he kept a projection TV in his living room with an Xbox360. But still, I mean - to lie about being a Fallout fan?

That's just a new low.

Except, Metroid is not a First Person Shooter. No one who has played through the Metroid' games can honestly say that they are not Metroid games. The spirit of exploration and adventure is there, in full swing.

As for Bethesda, I have to call you on that one. They have shown extreme competence in this matter. They took the Fallout spirit, added a healthy dose of modern gaming -- which includes realism, when possible -- and set up a preview with plenty of juicy tidbits for the community to salivate over.

The only group of Fallout fans that isn't sitting around in flat out stunned silence right now is NMA, and just about everything I've seen so far in NMA's reactions has been nitpicking.

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

Except, Metroid is not a First Person Shooter. No one who has played through the Metroid' games can honestly say that they are not Metroid games. The spirit of exploration and adventure is there, in full swing.

As for Bethesda, I have to call you on that one. They have shown extreme competence in this matter. They took the Fallout spirit, added a healthy dose of modern gaming -- which includes realism, when possible -- and set up a preview with plenty of juicy tidbits for the community to salivate over.

The only group of Fallout fans that isn't sitting around in flat out stunned silence right now is NMA, and just about everything I've seen so far in NMA's reactions has been nitpicking.

Right, other than the fact that we have been predicting this pretty much ever since Bethesda aquired the damn license. Guess it's going to suck when the game actually is released; you'll have to come back and say "Well, it's not as bad as you guys made it out to be pre-release... *cough*"

As for the healthy dose of competence.. know what screw it.

 

[Maphusio]

This is hopeless. I think just to spite everyone here I'll buy 10 copies of Fallout 3.

I'm sorry were more critical of a product than you are. I believe in creating a niche and a rare jewel that shines brightly both in the past and the future. It seems many companies are not looking for a product that sells 11 years after its creation. Most companies seem to be interested in producing mainstream blah products and could care less so long as those $'s are today, forget tomorrow. This seems to be the motto of so many large corporations today not just giants like Bethesda.

When you look at a company such as Blizzard entertainment you know they will be around for years to come minus a catastrophic mistake (BoS / Metroid / Deus Ex 2). The care they place in their products is truly amazing and their sales show it for ALL of their products.

It's important for us the consumers to shun the idea of mediocrity in any industry. For complacent gamers and a stagnant industry will only bring destruction in the end. If FO1&2 were not the amazing pieces of work that they are this site as well as the fan base behind it would not be here today.

Do not take offense to the stigma that many have painted us. Some of it may be true and amazingly enough there is always a reason to who a people are, and what they, what we've become. There is no form without function, we have been created and nurtured by the environment provided... and its been one HELL of a hostile one.

Time and time again we have been promised the successor to FO1&2 and been disappointed each time and in some cases, strait out abused.

Do not forget your dieing king! Remember FO1&2 for what it is, a testament to the CRPG genre that it seems Bethesda is so intent on ignoring. Behold your successor, Fallout 3 A post apocalyptic ACTION ROLL PLAYING GAME!

Until we stop supporting products as well as companies that are unconcerned with the quality of what they produce and the value of their name we will be subject to even worse horrors in the future.

 

[Xython]

Right, other than the fact that we have been predicting this pretty much ever since Bethesda aquired the damn license. Guess it's going to suck when the game actually is released; you'll have to come back and say "Well, it's not as bad as you guys made it out to be pre-release... *cough*"

As for the healthy dose of competence.. know what screw it.

Except... We know absolutely nothing about the game, other than a few tidbits and 10 pages of tiny, grainy, screenshots.

And everything they have released would have you guys salivating if they had kept the VB engine.

So I ask you again. What in that article has you going all about?

 

[Nim82]

And now it's Bethesda's brainchild. And they've decided to add a little more realism to it. That's inevitable when you go from 2d to 3d. You cannot do cartoony 3d without it looking bad -- the sole exception is Mario, and that style would not work for a post-apoc CRPG.

Bullshit. If cartoony 3D looked bad Pixar would be in serious trouble. I suggest you check out Sam N Max and Starcraft2 - if they are a bit too obscure for you, google 'World of Warcraft'. I would argue 'realistic' 3D looks far worse. The closer one tries to simulate reality the more obvious the flaws and imperfections become, and quite frankly the result can be horrendous (watch Polar Express).

 

[Tora]

It only looked cartoonish because of the technology of the time. They couldn't exactly go nuts with the graphics with sprites, after all.

Bullshit. The fact FO and FO2 looked cartoonish had nothing to do with "the technology of the time".

So what would have made you happy, Alec? If they had released screenshots of a modern game with 2d isometric sprites?

They would have been laughed out of the screening room.

There are still many modern games in 2d with sprites. its only the western world that seems obsessed with needing everything in 3d. There are still many successful japanese games currently out, and coming out that still use a semi-isometric view, 2d sprites and the like. 3D != necessary for new games.

Realism doesn't matter in the Fallout universe. That's one of the things that makes it so special and, apparently, so hard for outsiders to understand.

And now it's Bethesda's brainchild. And they've decided to add a little more realism to it. That's inevitable when you go from 2d to 3d. You cannot do cartoony 3d without it looking bad -- the sole exception is Mario, and that style would not work for a post-apoc CRPG.

Actually, Van Buren was 3d too, cept it was isometric. Just not the 3D that FPS lovers expect, that's all.

Nowadays, it's all the same. A little more polygons maybe, a better set of skins maybe, but the effort or even the lust to aim for what is still technologically feasible is gone. No more exploring the boundaries. No more exploring new possibilities. It's all about emptying people's pockets now, not about constructing a solid statue that will stand for years to come.

Isn't it a bit early to be saying that? Since all we know about Fallout 3 can be summed up in like, 8 bullet points?

True, except you know, those 8 bullet points don't seem to be very confidence-inducing? At least when you look at what's claimed and what's shown.

No, they have not. They have failed. Miserably. The 'new' Vault of the Future posters look like shite when you compare them to the original ones. The style is completely wrong. I don't know if they've contracted crappy artists or what, but they've got it all wrong. Look at how they implemented Vault Boy. That looks like copy and paste to me.

What new ones? We see two. One in page 3 of the article, which looks perfectly fine, and one in the bus.

I agree not many posters were shown yet... which is problematic in itself, consdering that the article covered what? 8 pages? AND had a trailer AND had concept art shown?

Take a look at the PipBoy 3000. How does that contraption look? Does it look like something that withstanded 200 years of fallout and (ab)use? Does it look like something the 50's could have come up with? No.

Actually, it reminds me a LOT of Fallout 2's menu system. It almost looks like they lifted it from them straight off.

As for it looking like predator equipment... uh... no? It looks like an monochrome EGA monitor from the 1980s, if that.

Exactly. The 80s. its NOT a 50s pulp-scifi style.

I don't even feel like discussing the handheld nuclear catapult or the Supersledge that looks like someting the Goths would have forged in their main camp.

Yes, lets ignore the Davy Crockett for now.

The SuperSledge I like. The old Super Sledge sprite would have looked INCREDIBLY underwhelming in 3d. Absolutely hideous.

So a fantasy style warhammer fits better? I *really* doubt people will rework sledgehammers to look like warhammers out of some fantasy setting, especially in a post-apocalyptic world.

 

[Kazhiim]

I don't understand why you make the assumption that Fallout 3 sucks, though. You say people shouldn't buy a bad game; people shouldn't support developers that rely on first-week sales of overhyped games; that developers should make a good game.

This is all true. But on what basis do you come to the conclusion that a game we've seen a handful of screenshots and an early cinematic of is bad? How can you automatically assume that the whole game takes place in the sewers of washington D.C., fighting sledgehammer-wielding mutants with a portable nuke catapult? Are you so afflicted with tunnel vision that you would assume you know everything about this game from such little information?

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

Right, other than the fact that we have been predicting this pretty much ever since Bethesda aquired the damn license. Guess it's going to suck when the game actually is released; you'll have to come back and say "Well, it's not as bad as you guys made it out to be pre-release... *cough*"

As for the healthy dose of competence.. know what screw it.

Except... We know absolutely nothing about the game, other than a few tidbits and 10 pages of tiny, grainy, screenshots.

And everything they have released would have you guys salivating if they had kept the VB engine.

So I ask you again. What in that article has you going all about?

// simplified version

- Iso; gone. Third / First person perspective.
- Dialogue; gone. Page 3, upper right hand corner. Father using the speech system of Oblivion.
- Canon; mostly ignored. Established Vault-Tec standard issue suit completely disregarded. Replaced with blue leather jacket, page 3 middle.
- Mixing up Pip and VaultBoy. Page 4, bottom left.
- Motion blur, slow motion, replays of kills. Xbacks acheivement points supreme. Page 5, middle right. Page 6, bottom left. Makes the game seem more like Max Payne set in a post apoc environment. Especially the VATS system. Sounds just like the bullet-time in Max Payne.
- Handheld nuclear cannon. Page 8, top. Illogical.

Just a short list of stuff wrong. Like I said, when I first saw the scans, I had sort of a.. problem. I let it not get the best of me. There's no need to go to desperate measures over a videogame.

 

[Xython]

I'm sorry were more critical of a product than you are. I believe in creating a niche and a rare jewel that shines brightly both in the past and the future. It seems many companies are not looking for a product that sells 11 years after its creation. Most companies seem to be interested in producing mainstream blah products and could care less so long as those $'s are today, forget tomorrow. This seems to be the motto of so many large corporations today not just giants like Bethesda.

When you look at a company such as Blizzard entertainment you know they will be around for years to come minus a catastrophic mistake (BoS / Metroid / Deus Ex 2). The care they place in their products is truly amazing and their sales show it for ALL of their products.

I find your mention of Blizzard to be particuarly interesting, given that:

1. Blizzard is legendary for stealing everything they've made recently from Games-Workshop. (Warhammer vs Warcraft, Warhammer 40k vs Starcraft)
2. World of Warcraft is considered by most "pure" MMORPG fans to be a "Mainstream Blah MMO" that caters to the lowest common demoninator amongst their fans, which is the only reason that it's... the ... most popular MMORPG in history. *ahem* Er, yes.

Do not forget your dieing king! Remember FO1&2 for what it is, a testament to the CRPG genre that it seems Bethesda is so intent on ignoring. Behold your successor, Fallout 3 A post apocalyptic ACTION ROLL PLAYING GAME!

That's your complaint? That Fallout 3 isn't turn based?

Can you honestly say that a turn based Computer RPG would sell in today's environment? I mean, honestly and truely?

A CONSOLE RPG could. For example, Dragon Quest 9 was announced to be a DS Action RPG, but due to the fanbase outcry they changed it back to a DS Traditional RPG.

But not a Computer RPG. The time of the great turn based CRPGs is long since passed, I'm afraid.

I think it could still be done, and done extremely well. But it'd have to be on a fringe, experimental game. Fallout 3 is NOT a fringe game. Bethesda has a responsibility to their stockholders, their employee's families, and to their customers to make a game that will be successful.

Successful does not mean "Niche". I'm sure they could release a game that would satisfy everyone here. And they'd sell MAYBE 1000 copies. Or they could make a great game that will satisfy the rest of the world, and, in time, you guys. And sell 4 million copies.

Which do you think they're going to pick?


And hey, just be glad it wasn't EA that got the Fallout License. F:BOS would have been a BLESSING.

I'm thinking.... A Fallout Street Fighter clone with the Master Reincarnated as the last boss. With a talking Deathclaw as one of the characters. And a Glowy Ghoul that can shoot "radiation fireballs" using "Nuke-Fu".

Or "Command and Concur: Arroyo Sun".

Or Fallout: A Post Apocalyptic Trading Card Game!

Or "Wasteland Tycoon"! Buy and sell Jet, Slaves, and Booze, using your network of Caravans to dominate the new west! ... Actually, that sounds pretty fun, heh.


I'm just saying it could have been a LOT worse.

 

[Kazhiim]

Sid Meier's Mutants!

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

I'm just saying it could have been a LOT worse.

What did I just say a couple of posts ago?

you'll have to come back and say "Well, it's not as bad as you guys made it out to be pre-release... *cough*"

Ah, that's right.

 

[Xython]

// simplified version

- Iso; gone. Third / First person perspective.
- Dialogue; gone. Page 3, upper right hand corner. Father using the speech system of Oblivion.
- Canon; mostly ignored. Established Vault-Tec standard issue suit completely disregarded. Replaced with blue leather jacket, page 3 middle.
- Mixing up Pip and VaultBoy. Page 4, bottom left.
- Motion blur, slow motion, replays of kills. Xbacks acheivement points supreme. Page 5, middle right. Page 6, bottom left. Makes the game seem more like Max Payne set in a post apoc environment. Especially the VATS system. Sounds just like the bullet-time in Max Payne.
- Handheld nuclear cannon. Page 8, top. Illogical.

Just a short list of stuff wrong. Like I said, when I first saw the scans, I had sort of a.. problem. I let it not get the best of me. There's no need to go to desperate measures over a videogame.

- Let me just say this.

There is NO WAY, AT ALL, outside of some small Japanese Indy shops, that we are EVER going to see a Isometric game again.

EVER!

- Dialogue... Can you honestly tell me the difference between Fallout's dialogue system and Oblivions? They seem remarkably similar to me.

- That's odd, I always got the impression that the vault suit was more or less a denim jacket and blue jeans. But yeah, it's supposed to be more than that, I know. But stylistically, it always looked like that to me.

- I must be missing the vault / pip thing? On page 4... I see a guy with a Vault 101 coat on and a damaged rifle across his back? Or is that Page 3?

- Again, turn based is dead. The current real-time / AP hybrid is as close as we're going to get, I fear. I like the idea. From a melee perspective, it makes it sound like you'll be grappling with the target and every so often getting off a really good hit when you can. And I can't wait to abuse the sneak attack system, if any. Sneak Attack to the head? Woo!

- Eh. The more I hear about the Fatboy the more I think they might be adding it just for Multiplayer Deathmatch, or something.

 

[Excessive]

Oh my god! They killed Fallout! Those are bastards!

Seriously, Bethesda made a big mistake just thinking "they can make a sequel" to Fallout series.

I seriously hope no one will buy this shit, and Bethesda developers might start thinking that "Gods has not placed us" here. Fallout always had its own merits over other games. That's why we are here, united, discussing and loving it for years.

This is a bad step for Bethesda. I hope they sell the license to somebody else who has experience with isometric rpg's.

 

[Xython]

I'm just saying it could have been a LOT worse.

What did I just say a couple of posts ago?

you'll have to come back and say "Well, it's not as bad as you guys made it out to be pre-release... *cough*"

Ah, that's right.

Ah, you see, but that's the catch.

I LIKE Oblivion, even with it's faults. I prefer Morrowind, to be honest, but I'll live.

They could release a Fallout skin for Oblivion's engine, unchanged, and I would be perfectly happy with that. As long as they don't screw up the setting.

And the limited stuff I've seen so far makes me think that the setting is going to be perfectly fine.

One thing I am hoping for -- respawning stuff. Fallout was fun, emptying out the entire world and all that, but I liked running into random encounters just to blow stuff up. In an "Obliviout" I'd hope to be able to jump into random skyscrapers and stuff, fighting random bandits and raiders, looting them dry, and come back a few months later to see what showed up again.

 

[Tora]

We know they used " I don't want to set the world on fire" from the ink spots which we know was the intro to the original fallout that doesn't make everything ok. if anything its a knock against the original and they should of found a different song from the era for the intro. yes its cool there using SPECIAL , looks a like a toned down version of it.

here are a few major issues.
1. nuclear catapult
2. Doom Oblivion hybrid
3. A more linear story line
4. looks more like an FPS
5. Its ported to other systems (meaning we will loose certain aspects no matter what)
6. more like Bos and Fo tactics not Fo1 and Fo2

1. While I agree the Fatman is a but much, they might be just using that to show off the engine. Even if it's not a joke / tech demo item, well... I could honestly see some of our... less intelligent compatriots, especially those from 30 years ago, who might think something along those lines wouldn't be a horrible idea.

2. Where do you get "Doom Oblivion Hybrid?" Am I missing something? Can you explain the reference? The only thing I can think of is a complaint about the first person viewpoint, and, well, the second they mentioned AP and Called Shots, my concerns about that went away.

3. The Storyline isn't out yet. All we know is that the game starts with the hero growing up and leaving the vault to follow his father. That's about it. Would you rather the hero be able to choose to not grow up? Fallout itself wasn't all that nonlinear, it just had a lot of sidequests. Same as Oblivion, really.

4. I am not quite sure I agree with this, either. Most of what we've seen so far doesn't look like an FPS. There are a few shots of the character using a gun in first person -- but they've already said they're working on the 3rd person cause Oblivion's sucked.

5. While I'm not too keen on the idea of it being ported, I can't say that anyone who knows Bethesda is AT ALL surprised about this. However, Having played Fallout 2 with a SNES pad with great success, I'm not too worried about this aspect of it.

6. Again, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this -- could you explain? I avoided F:BOS like the plauge, but I enjoyed F:T quite a bit for what it was -- basically a PC version of FFT, with the Fallout background.


I agree that there are valid concerns about Bethesda and Fallout 3. I'll give you that much. But I'm not sure I agree with your list. My major #1 concern is that Bethesda seems to struggle with nonlinearity -- specifically, you might get a quest to look into a group of vampire hunters, and you might get the choice to go with them or stay behind... but you don't have the choice to run into the dungeon and warn the vampires, or even join them.

It's that kinda thing I am hoping for Fallout 3. Joining Raiders, talking bandits out of attacking cities, stealing valuables from traders and framing politicians, etc etc.

1. Problem that you seem to understand

2. The style of battle + the new design of the orc.... I mean, the super-mutant.. and that other thing that I forgot the name of. the AP + called shot seemed almost like a bullet-time thing added as an afterthough... it feels worse, at least to me, to have something like that where you shoot while paused (at least that's what it read like to me) in battle.

3. True, fallout isn't that non-linear if you look at it in terms of the *main* goal, but you really can't help that with programmed games. Only with PnP games can you truly get a really good non-linear gameplay. However, what was important about Fallout is the all the sidequests *could* effect the ending, as well as how you approached the ending.

4. Er, FPS, First Person View, Shooter. What more do you need to see the FPS portion? Yes they've said they're working on a 3rd person view, but until they show a good 3rd person view and game play in that all we've seen from that one battle screen looks just like a FPS no?

5. I don't really know if I'd like a game developed with stuff like the Xbox achievement points in mind.... just so they can make certain things near-impossible to do. Fallout didn't really have anything like that. If you knew something was there, you could find it, do it, no particular player skills needed. Also, given the fact that I doubt the console version is going to be using a mouse, I really doubt I'll be able to do stuff like finding random items lying in non-obvious places, unless its done in the usual I-don't-actually-see-the-items-so I'll-have-to-walk-along-the-wall-pressing-the-search-button-repeatedly-style, which would likely mean the interesting descriptors for things will no longer be there like in fallout 1/2, though I *could* be wrong and they have a work around for this.

6. Er.... historical background? Setting? You *can't* just whip out new allies/enemies and such out of thin air with disregard to the original setting. Well, you *could*, but that's why people don't consider Fallout: Tactics or BoS to be canon.

 

[Maphusio]

I don't understand why you make the assumption that Fallout 3 sucks, though. You say people shouldn't buy a bad game; people shouldn't support developers that rely on first-week sales of overhyped games; that developers should make a good game.

This is all true. But on what basis do you come to the conclusion that a game we've seen a handful of screenshots and an early cinematic of is bad? How can you automatically assume that the whole game takes place in the sewers of washington D.C., fighting sledgehammer-wielding mutants with a portable nuke catapult? Are you so afflicted with tunnel vision that you would assume you know everything about this game from such little information?

On what basis do we come to this conclusion you ask? Look around, read these very forums the answers are there for those whom are interested in understanding them.

Assumptions are what brought our hopes up in the first place pally. Assumptions, guesses what ever you want to call them are all Bethesda will provide us until we go out and purchase the product and make an informed decision as they have done with past products. By that time it's too late and they have succeeded in making another sale. We have have been down this road before with other developers. Bethesda does not wish for our input therefor they CLEARLY do not give a damn about us or what we think. Why should I support that?

Bethesda has the luxury of past successes and a client base that will purchase their product regardless of its history. As anyone whom studies the past with this sort of thing can see, you can only play this hand of cards so many times before you run into problems.

I seek a successor to the original two products. Something with more than mere art and name relation. I want Fallout 3. Reading through this Game Informer article, it states quite simply that the product that I'm looking for is not what Bethesda is producing. Why should I support that?

The Vault Dweller brought up the point in his article that Bethesda has over the years indicated that they are not producing Fallout 3 but some sort of (in my eyes) bastardized incarnation. But I like you helled out hope that things would look up.

Again I say I want Fallout 3 what information we have been presented indicates this is not what we will receive. If Bethesda intended on creating Fallout 3 for the current fans of past flames they would have been open and receptive to our suggestions and questions. Instead, they lurk in the shadows knowing no matter what they put out, it will sell. I can't support that and I hope you can't in good conscience support that as well.