George Zimmerman, race and the NAACP

[DarkCorp]

I will try to find some info on Trayvon reaching his home, then doubling back to ambush Zimmerman. Of course this would vindicate Zimmermans testimony. The question is why would Trayvon do that?

I know its a bit silly but I am envisioning Zimmerman as one of those soldiers from Predator and Trayvon as the alien who is using stealthy tactics to get the drop on someone, then to beat them, with no clear benefit. Unless one thinks Trayvon was a psycho.

My question is, is it worth it to potentially put yourself in a situation where you could get killed/or kill someone else on a hunch?

 

[EnclaveForever]

Don't know either of them, none of my business and besides much more worse cases happen all over the place, media has just shot this one into the spotlight. I can read all I want about the case online, still doesn't change the fact that I wasn't there and it has nothing to do with me at all. Only between them and their families as far as I am concerned.

I know I really cannot say much about racism, mostly because I have barely ever had to experience it (except when I was younger, a teacher told me I should be ashamed to be Caucasian because of what others have done of similar pigmentation in the past and present).

To be honest, I don't even acknowledge the existence of races, there is only one single race, that is the human race. Everything else was just evolutionary components that resulted due to changes in environmental and geographical locations.

 

[Crni Vuk]

If you'd ask Zimmerman why he carries a concealed weapon, chances are good he'd reply "because I can't carry a cop in my pocket all the time".

yes, and then situations like those pop up, where civilians face situations, that are best left to a cop, because those people are usually trained for such cases and should, as this is their profession, know how to handle the situation, in the best case, arresting the person eventually without killing either the criminal nor putting them self in danger. For example a police officer usually never really follows a suspect alone, which is what Zimmerman did, and he got in a situation which a police officers might had a chance to deal with, without using any weapons. As said, he is a civilian with a gun doing the job of cops.

I mean I am the only one who sees this if not as something terrible, but at least as somewhat questionable?

I mean you have to keep in mind what Tagz is saying here, we are talking about a situation where a person was shoot, gunned down, killed, he is dead.

What ever if that leaves you or others, that have the feeling it was Zimmermans "right" cold about, it doesn't change the fact that this boy had a family too, what ever if he was a thug or criminal, but now, maybe if a cop would have arrested him, who knows, he might have reflected about what he did, if he did something wrong, giving him a chance to turn his life for the better. I always thought this is something important, giving people chances to redeem themself and change their way of life. Now this chance is completely forfeit. And thats a tragedy. Because the boy is dead, and that has somewhat weight in my opinion. The los of a life is a tragedy, particularly when its such a young life, for the case he was really a criminal or suspisious person, you have a good chance to reach young people, compared to adult criminals and thugs. All they sometimes need, is to be reminded, that what they do, has consequences. But as said, that trains gone, and his family is left with questions over questions, why it happend, how has it happend? There will ALWAYS remain some doubts, and I am sure this will haunt his relatives for a long time.

I am not even attacking Zimmerman here, he might have defend his life, I simply don't know it. We might never really know what happened. But fact is, that he might have done a mistake here too, trying to solve things on his own, rather then calling the police, because call me naive, but I DO believe that we have them for a reason.

 

[Mad Max RW]

But nope the media couldn't talk about those things.

Actually, they could and did. As evidenced by the fact that every time you talk about "the media" not covering something you link to a media account of something.

The media is not a monolithic entity with one agenda. There are lots of different outlets, and many of the things you complain about have been covered on a lot of them. Reports about Zimmerman not being a racist (as irrelevant as they were) were frequent when the event happened. Reports about him being a racist, though, were effectively non-existent.

It seems to me that you tend to conflate left-wing opinion making with the media in general, mentally excluding those outlets, articles and reports that don't fit that narrative. The conspiracy theory approach to media criticism is much too simplistic.

Also 6-8 home invasions/ robberies is a call for concern. Any good-willed neighbor/man would be called to action after seeing your neighborhood steadily become bulgarized/vandalized. Home Values go down the second neighborhoods are labeled as "going down the drain" and "bums hanging up to no good". ^The article does support that Zimmerman was looking out for everyones interests.

Yes. The point wasn't that those things aren't problems for the neighborhood. The point is that letting a possible burglar maybe get away once isn't a disaster.

MSNBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, HLN, The New York Times, basically all liberal progressive run media. The kind of media you have no knowledge of because it's not blasted on your country's television networks as the primary news source 24/7. You have to dig to find the facts. Most people are too lazy so they just accept whatever the talking heads on tv are saying.

Do you even know who Al Sharpton is? Chris Matthews? Piers Morgan?

 

[Tagaziel]

Oh, you mean it's totally not relevant to Zimmerman's character and not relevant to Sander's comments about how carrying a gun means carrying an extra burden and responsibilities?

You think it's relevant. Explain.

Have you even followed the damn trial? At all? Have you watched the stream? The experts? The testimonies?
What exactly am I ignoring here? Please enlighten me by quoting the information and the source from the court case.

Actually, the burden of proof is still on you, since you're consistently claiming this is a clear cut case with a black/white division of roles. You have failed to produce evidence to back these claims up.

I'm defending people exercising their constitutional rights. I don't know about you, but I think that's pretty important.

Life is an unalienable right, as outlined by the U.S. Declaration of Independence. By your logic, the right to arm bears is more important than right to life.

 

[Sander]

Vatted some nonsense in this thread.

(except when I was younger, a teacher told me I should be ashamed to be Caucasian because of what others have done of similar pigmentation in the past and present).

That is insane.

MSNBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, HLN, The New York Times, basically all liberal progressive run media.

But there are many, many outlets which are conservative. In fact, the biggest network on US television is Fox News. Conservative talk radio is huge. Conservative newspapers with very large audiences exist, too, like the Wall Street Journal, New York Post and Washington Times. And online too, such as Breitbart and to a much lesser extent Drudge Report.

The media isn't one singular, monolithic entity. You're focusing on the part of the media that you disagree with most strongly, but that doesn't mean that they're the only media. In fact, the other media outlets have very large market shares, too.

Now keep in mind what some liberals say about Fox News, and the New York Post, and the Washington Times, and the Wall Street Journal. Then think about the fact that the Republicans and Democrats get equal vote shares, while the Republicans keep pushing toward more and more conservative views. How can that be if the liberal media is dominating everything?

The kind of media you have no knowledge of because it's not blasted on your country's television networks as the primary news source 24/7. You have to dig to find the facts. Most people are too lazy so they just accept whatever the talking heads on tv are saying.

Do you even know who Al Sharpton is? Chris Matthews? Piers Morgan?

I do. I consume a lot of American media. Please don't make assumptions about what I do and don't know.

 

[BonusWaffle]

Crni your only argument is that the problem exists. What im trying to do is present and alternate explanation as to WHY the problem exists and you just keep telling me no, look, the problem exists! As if the problem existing is in itself evidence enough for your theory as to why the problem exists.

 

[Syphon]

(except when I was younger, a teacher told me I should be ashamed to be Caucasian because of what others have done of similar pigmentation in the past and present).

I'm been fed the same shit. The Guilt never ends, dude. Sander was the one to say "Go back and look at history!".

And when you look through it, you don't find the guilt? Its not insane. Its insane, imo, if your dutch and don't feel guilt as well. Remember, "history is important dude". your words not mine. [/quote]

 

[Mad Max RW]

Anyone else catch this because it's awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ywauUc-ZhbA

Predictably followed by: http://twitchy.com/2013/07/17/epic-...iers-morgan-libs-unleash-torrent-of-haterade/

And some extra food for thought: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...s_view_blacks_as_racist_than_whites_hispanics

 

[Sander]

I'm been fed the same shit. The Guilt never ends, dude. Sander was the one to say "Go back and look at history!".

And when you look through it, you don't find the guilt? Its not insane. Its insane, imo, if your dutch and don't feel guilt as well. Remember, "history is important dude". your words not mine.

Guilt isn't the point, though. You don't have to feel guilty about being born with a skin color. There's nothing you can do about it. Feeling guilty about the past doesn't do anything.

But you have to be aware of that stuff to understand why society is the way it is, why people react in a certain, why they're in a certain situation. And you have to understand all that if you want to figure out what the possible solutions are.

 

[BonusWaffle]

Guilt isn't the point, though. You don't have to feel guilty about being born with a skin color. There's nothing you can do about it. Feeling guilty about the past doesn't do anything.

But you have to be aware of that stuff to understand why society is the way it is, why people react in a certain, why they're in a certain situation. And you have to understand all that if you want to figure out what the possible solutions are.

I think the thing is sander, they put that guilt on white americans in order to get them to make some kind of reparation for the people their great great grandparents had wronged. I dont remember conquering the natives land for britain, but i sure do get blamed for it. Even if I accept the fact that I should make amends for my ancestors wrongdoing, the fact that my ancestors were in poland long after all that happens means i should actually be demanding the german family down the street give me reparations.

The whole blacks being the poor victims oppressed by the evil (even unknowingly evil) white man idea is perpetuating the problem by leading more and more black people into this black culture, causing more black people to need extra assistance from the government instead of going the route scorned by black culture and actually studying and becoming a contributing member of society. Its a huge fucking mess and im sick of it.

 

[Mad Max RW]

I think the thing is sander, they put that guilt on white americans in order to get them to make some kind of reparation for the people their great great grandparents had wronged. I dont remember conquering the natives land for britain, but i sure do get blamed for it. Even if I accept the fact that I should make amends for my ancestors wrongdoing, the fact that my ancestors were in poland long after all that happens means i should actually be demanding the german family down the street give me reparations.

The whole blacks being the poor victims oppressed by the evil (even unknowingly evil) white man idea is perpetuating the problem by leading more and more black people into this black culture, causing more black people to need extra assistance from the government instead of going the route scorned by black culture and actually studying and becoming a contributing member of society. Its a huge fucking mess and im sick of it.

That reminds me of a funny thing that happened to me a few years back. I was at a bar with some friends when a local black college kid starts lecturing us about how "your people" persecute the blacks. I countered with "Well at least your people had a chance. Half of my family was gassed and cooked in German ovens. The few that escaped made it to America without a penny in their pocket and nobody gave them free land or reparations. They never asked for help or wanted it. Don't lecture me about persecution." He actually liked what I said and made him think.

 

[AmericanSephiroth]

Guilt isn't the point, though. You don't have to feel guilty about being born with a skin color. There's nothing you can do about it. Feeling guilty about the past doesn't do anything.

But you have to be aware of that stuff to understand why society is the way it is, why people react in a certain, why they're in a certain situation. And you have to understand all that if you want to figure out what the possible solutions are.

I think the thing is sander, they put that guilt on white americans in order to get them to make some kind of reparation for the people their great great grandparents had wronged. I dont remember conquering the natives land for britain, but i sure do get blamed for it. Even if I accept the fact that I should make amends for my ancestors wrongdoing, the fact that my ancestors were in poland long after all that happens means i should actually be demanding the german family down the street give me reparations.

The whole blacks being the poor victims oppressed by the evil (even unknowingly evil) white man idea is perpetuating the problem by leading more and more black people into this black culture, causing more black people to need extra assistance from the government instead of going the route scorned by black culture and actually studying and becoming a contributing member of society. Its a huge fucking mess and im sick of it.

Mr. Waffle I truly agree with your post it honestly seems like many in the "black" community seems to want to take the easy route of rappers(I do not consider rappers musicians talking and rhyming is NOT music)/ athletes. I speak from experience due to having black family members and also going to a school with a 45% black population although we had only 2 hispanics in a population of 1000 students moving on at least 92% percent were stereotypical "thuggin' niggas".I should know because i knew many personally due to the fact i had eyes all over the school.

Now i believe this to be the result of few positive relatable black role models and even the few that are there are not in the spotlight or are accused of abndoning their blackness if abandoning their blackness mean becoming positive role models then I say LET THE WHITE WASH COMMENCE. Example I NEVER hear a young black man say "man I wanna be the next Colin Powell/President Obama/Bill Cosby/Nelson Mandella/etc... and make a difference in my community" no I hear " MAH NIGGA IMMA BE douggie shitstain/ blah blah nigga nigga nigga/ other rapper name here AND GET MAD BITCHES AND BANK AND IMMA GET A GRILLL LIKE POW WITH 50 BITCHIN CARS MADE A BITCHES".

What i think would be a good solution is to remove these worthless "role-models" from any form of spotlight and scorn their behavior make itillegal to behave that way if you must. but we need to emphasize education, growth, and responibility. Also I know someone will say well what about the mom with 3 kids and no education well whos fault is it she has 3 kids responsibility must be taken she could have either not had unprotected sex or had an abortion it ain't hard to take the stairs just saying. rape is the same way abort if you want it only take 9 months and 5 minutes to make more. but to summize my ramblings too many want the easy road.

TL;DR: there are too many young minorities who want the easy road and think education is bad and being a stereotypical "nigga" is an ideal to strive for not an attitude that should be scorned and exterminated.

and just to give people the easy ammo I am white (also incredibly pale) but from a very poor family and I barely make do as is so if you think that destroys my credibility feel free

 

[Syphon]

Dear AmericanSephiroth,

Your argument was repulsive, for two reasons, it was overly dramatic and used way too many profanitys and racial slurs. If you were to calm down, smoke a joint, and filter some of your anger, and revise your rant into something with a little more of decency, please edit it bro.

1) I already made the correlation between education, as it being the only way for Blacks (or anybody) to get out of the gutter. Our lower-class is no longer a suitable way to sustain families and the things required to have a happy life.

2) I already made the correlation that the Black culture lacks any serious role-models. They do not have "Bill Nyes" or "Steve Irwins" as I said. Your right. Hell, they need a dude like the artist who used to be on public access just showing the virtue of patience and calming nature.

3) I already said that "Rappers" / "Athletes" were not a valid way to build any kind of fortune when the associated lifestyle is self-centered and selfish. Most of them don't see a $ twenty years later because they failed to spend it in meaningful ways ie financial planning (stocks, bonds, IRA's, CD's, 401K) or family businesses. Market solutions. Yes we're way past your rant in so many ways, and I have 4-5 regular participants who can vouch on every line I've said.

Now, the current progress of this discussion, where you are free to contribute if you watch your mouth, is:

1) a reform/solution to neighborhood watches. Is possible to tweak our current law & enforcement system to have some kind of "Liason" who works with the communitie's activist.

 

[Mad Max RW]

Neil deGrasse Tyson should be a good role model for everybody.

Oh yeah back to neighborhood watches. The solution is simple. Follow what the police tell you. We setup a neighborhood watch where I live when crime was way out of hand and the number one rule: NEVER FOLLOW OR CONFRONT SOMEONE ALONE AND ASSUME EVERYBODY HAS A GUN. I don't know what Zimmerman's problem was. Maybe he was naive or maybe he felt brave because he had a gun. Or maybe he was sick of all the recent break-ins. Hell, we had weekly murders and muggings until we got a real system down to prevent it and make our presence known with police help.

 

[BonusWaffle]

Past the language and slurs the core of his point is still pretty valid

 

[Syphon]

He is a great role model! And so is UCONN's Prof. Layton!

The next step would be to have lil' ones see these guys, how they act, think on a regular basis.. Ofcourse they are busy but somebody of those line give em a TV show or something

Bonus: In trinkets, yes but he's regurgitating what we've already discussed sprinkled with NOT-helping verbage.

 

[Ilosar]

Neil deGrasse Tyson should be a good role model for everybody.

Oh yeah back to neighborhood watches. The solution is simple. Follow what the police tell you. We setup a neighborhood watch where I live when crime was way out of hand and the number one rule: NEVER FOLLOW OR CONFRONT SOMEONE ALONE AND ASSUME EVERYBODY HAS A GUN. I don't know what Zimmerman's problem was. Maybe he was naive or maybe he felt brave because he had a gun. Or maybe he was sick of all the recent break-ins. Hell, we had weekly murders and muggings until we got a real system down to prevent it and make our presence known with police help.

That's pretty much what needs to be done if you must have those watch things (which I insist think are a bad idea, but moving on). Drill in these guy's heads that police dispatch know their work more often than not and that confronting/following a lone individual (especially a young, obviously pretty strong guy) is a terrible idea no matter if you're armed or not. That's what I'm saying, Zimmerman was highly irresponsible and it just bugs me to see him walk away scot-free after his mistake (partly) cost a man his life. I know, the law is the law, but still. At the very least, the judgement should have underlined that he acted very carelessly.

@AmericanSephiroth: and I assume all the non-blacks at the school were perfect little angels now were they? Or maybe the fact that it was a poor school (said it yourself) had a lot to do with it. Or maybe others exhibited similar behaviors but in your obviously ridiculously biased PoV you didn't see it. But I guess those explanations are way too complicated, na, you're right, every single black person is a wannabe thug and a gansta-shit rapper.

Spew your bile on Stormfront or wherever people will care.

 

[EnclaveForever]

The one thing that always puzzles me in the discussion of racism is why so many people think racism only applies if one is racist to their opposite "race". A perfect example would be modern rap music (not all songs, but some songs include tons of racist slurs).

 

[Mad Max RW]

Zimmerman walked because the state of Florida was forced to file charges they could never prove despite already knowing it. What they should have done was filed a wrongful death suit, bankrupting him for life. Instead assholes got involved (NAACP, Al Sharpton) and manipulated the Martin family. And the ironic part is now Zimmerman can get legal immunity from such lawsuits. He has the right to turn it around and sue the Martin family and the state if he wanted. And he would win.