BonusWaffle
Still Mildly Glowing
Crni Vuk said:
I have already responded to that idea. it seems like you cant actually find a counter argument so you resort to attacking my credibility and ignoring my points entirely.
George Zimmerman, race and the NAACP
- Thread starter Syphon
- Start date
Still Mildly Glowing
I have already responded to that idea. it seems like you cant actually find a counter argument so you resort to attacking my credibility and ignoring my points entirely.
Correct. But you can avoid seeking them out.SuAside said:
I said that it's at least more relevant. But whether or not he was racist, or whether he was a nice guy, or what kind of people are concealed carriers? That's not relevant.SuAside said:
Plus, the idea that you can use concealed carry statistics to describe his personality when we have so much more information on Zimmerman is fallacious anyway. You're taking one highly specific aspect of his behavior and ignoring everything else to come to large conclusions about him. That's a really, really bad process.
But I repeat: how many attacks on his character did you see in this thread?
No, I said that what he did was irresponsible and careless. I did not say that in general he was a careless person or that in general he lacked responsibility, that those were general traits of his character. I was speaking to his documented actions on that night. That's it.SuAside said:
So are you saying that if someone carries a gun, he does not need to be careful about the kinds of situations he puts himself in because of the much graver consequences?SuAside said:
Frankly, I find that morally hard to defend.
Wumbology
Actually a sentient CRT
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd...._=1374417871_cbe5ecb7fe847c6be931cafc018573b6
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd...._=1374416319_430a6a0256b4ca9de82cc80b8ca68f1e
I'm the one supporting Zimmerman's case here. No, it isn't right he got away uncharged.
Yes, his actions were justified. It was not racially motivated. It was not right to follow Martin. But when someone is attacking you...?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd...._=1374416319_430a6a0256b4ca9de82cc80b8ca68f1e
I'm the one supporting Zimmerman's case here. No, it isn't right he got away uncharged.
Yes, his actions were justified. It was not racially motivated. It was not right to follow Martin. But when someone is attacking you...?
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Tagaziel said:
trial transcripts, watching the recaps every night from the trial, and watching the juror interview.
you see, i work nights. and on the TVs there they have fox news and cnn on some of the TVs with other things.
if you read trial transcripts, or recaps of that prosecution witness jeantel or whatever, that was her testimony on the stand.
her testimony during the case was that martin had reached his dads house, and then went out to confront zimmerman. if you do read the transcripts, what you do is replace "cracka" with zimmerman as, per her testimony, that is how both martin and her referred to who eventually turned out to be zimmerman.
the fact that several of you did not know this really makes me think you guys are even more uninformed than you really think. THAT fact is why zimmerman was innocent.
the prosecution failed to prove that zimmerman acted with a criminal mind when he was following martin, but the prosecution ended up proving martin was acting with one.
really, having to explain this like a week later tells me you guys are not actually accurate on what you know, but rather following what your media says regardless of bias or facts. and yet you accuse me of such. hilarious really.
Yamu said:
And all I can find is references to her telephone call with Martin. Funny how this can be construed to state that he reached home and then went out to kill Zimmerman. If the case was this clear cut, it wouldn't be a problem.
Mad Max RW
Mildly Dipped
And the Race-Baiter in Chief weighs in once again http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_new...rayvon-martin-could-have-been-me-35-years-ago
Forget race had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. If you guys can't see what's going on yet then you need to get your eyes and ears checked.
Forget race had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. If you guys can't see what's going on yet then you need to get your eyes and ears checked.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Well race may have not been a factor in what happened but it is a factor of the aftermath. It's not only black people complaining but a lot of conservatives jumping on the "Blacks are inferior" wagon. Some people even insist on calling the kid a Thug.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Mad Max RW
Mildly Dipped
Walpknut said:
You mean this kind of aftermath?
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...n-car-wont-let-family-take-child-to-hospital/
http://www.click2houston.com/news/l...tors/-/1735978/21009282/-/xa44gh/-/index.html
http://www.king5.com/news/slideshow...op-Calif-freeway-attack-people-215660511.html
http://www.buzzfeed.com/passantino/video-shows-cbs-reporter-assaulted-while-covering-zimmerman
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3044546/posts
http://www.wlox.com/story/22846282/police-men-attack-jogger-in-retaliation-of-zimmerman-verdict
Obama sure is acting presidential at a time like this by inserting himself into it and using the race card. The funniest part is being half white he has more in common with Zimmerman.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Yes, that's what I mean, the aftermath.
Mad Max RW
Mildly Dipped
What do you think the response to this stuff would be if it was white supremacists on the streets attacking random black people? Or how about the Tea Party? Or just white people in general. The mainstream media and the president created this. If anybody is killed in a hate crime the blood will be on their hands.
TheWesDude said:
Let's establish this once and for all before we say anything else about Jeantel: is she a credible witness or isn't she? Because she also says that Trayvon was the victim here. Personally, I think she's an absolute writeoff. Much of what she said in court was unintelligible, she contradicted herself more than once, and she was gun-shy or dumb as a stump or both. She was obviously having trouble getting out what she wanted to say, and it's entirely possible that she was coached or at least rehearsed. She's been caught out in even more inconsistencies than Zimmerman himself, and this while she was under oath. It seems she's not entirely familiar with the full ramifications of what being "under oath" even means. On top of this all, the defense more than once tried to badger her into making even more of a mess of her testimony, under repeated sustained objections.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, you're quoting the one juror whose post-trial interview caused the others to break their media near-silence specifically to issue a joint statement distancing themselves from her remarks.
Mad Max RW said:
Regardless of whether Zimmerman profiled Martin, race has touched on every other aspect of this case, even before Sharpton and co. started chasing the ambulance. Do you really think that if Martin had killed Zimmerman instead of the other way around, he would have been released from custody that night? Or that the Sanford PD would have waited for months to bring charges? Do you honestly disregard that the racial divide that this case has shined a light on (perhaps stoked in some ways, but certainly not manufactured) isn't something that deserves a further look? Whether or not it was a conscious or subconscious race issue for Zimmerman (which we by definition will never know for sure), it has become tied into the greater race issue in America. This is all entirely irrelevant to you?
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Its incredibly difficult to make sense of Rachels testimony, sometimes incomprehensible, or her testimony changes, etc.
At one point she says she told Trayvon to 'run away from GZ', but he said 'nah'. TM said he had lost GZ but then claims GZ found him.
She also did say he was by his house 'near the back'.
And yes, a few times I could make out was Rachel said on the stand but here and there people kept asking her to repeat what she said consistently.
If someone more efficient than I could post a link to an actual transcript it would be greatly appreciated.
At one point she says she told Trayvon to 'run away from GZ', but he said 'nah'. TM said he had lost GZ but then claims GZ found him.
She also did say he was by his house 'near the back'.
And yes, a few times I could make out was Rachel said on the stand but here and there people kept asking her to repeat what she said consistently.
If someone more efficient than I could post a link to an actual transcript it would be greatly appreciated.
Don't I wish? Heh. I'm on a Galaxy S3 at the moment. I had to watch it on video over a crappy wifi connection. If anyone DOES have a link to the transcript or to a full interposed timeline of the picture painted by the phone records, it would go a long way towards getting everyone on the same page. I just can't bring myself to do any more Googling on a three-inch screen today.
Are you still under the impression that ignoring racial tensions is going to make them go away? Also, calling him the anti-Christ, really?Syphon said:
If everyone could just be a little more calm and respectful when discussing race in this thread (/on this board) that would go a long way to not turning this into a giant shouting match.
For my part, apologies. You know I'm usually the picture of restraint, but it's been a very, very long week and the two sides here are obviously exercising wholly incompatible forms of common sense. Edited for civility.
Think I'm going to bow out for a bit, anyway, at least from the Zimmerman/Martin bits. This is one of those cases where no one can agree on which version of the facts we're working from, regardless of how well-established some of them are. Those don't tend to end well, if at all.
Think I'm going to bow out for a bit, anyway, at least from the Zimmerman/Martin bits. This is one of those cases where no one can agree on which version of the facts we're working from, regardless of how well-established some of them are. Those don't tend to end well, if at all.
I am not attacking your credibility, just explaining you that in the totall picture the case of a single individual isnt really having that much weight. Why do you even assume that if something worked for YOU that it has to be all out of sudden the perfect solution for everyone else? Its somewhat hard for me to understand that idea of thinking, because as far as I am aware, its a part of basic knowledge that you can not go here with your personal experience and your success, because we are talking here about a very large group of people.BonusWaffle said:
Its similar in assuming that because you never encounter a bug in a game you bought that it sure cant be the fault of the game when other people experience bugs but their PC and system.
You can not really draw a conclusion for a very large group of people just because you have your own experience. There are simply way to many factors that play a role here.