George Zimmerman, race and the NAACP

Yamu said:
For my part, apologies. You know I'm usually the picture of restraint, but it's been a very, very long week and the two sides here are obviously exercising wholly incompatible forms of common sense.
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This is an either/or choice? Can't they both be douchebags? Why does everything have to be framed by two opposite extremes and shrill yelling in everything political in America? I can't identify with or support either side, both these guys were numbnuts as far as I'm concerned. Black/White, Rep,/Dem, left/right,gun controls/guns for all. This flat-earth imagery isn't getting anyone anywhere.

Why should I have to be for or against either one of those dipshits? This sounds like a medieval serf, asking the first agnostic whether he worships God or the Devil.
Fuck em both, and fuck the media (of your choice) for baiting the cheerleaders into picking sides in this loser's dilemma. This is some petty, trifling shit to be staking out claims on one of the other.
 
Syphon said:
Dear AmericanSephiroth,

Your argument was repulsive, for two reasons, it was overly dramatic and used way too many profanitys and racial slurs. If you were to calm down, smoke a joint, and filter some of your anger, and revise your rant into something with a little more of decency, please edit it bro.

1) I already made the correlation between education, as it being the only way for Blacks (or anybody) to get out of the gutter. Our lower-class is no longer a suitable way to sustain families and the things required to have a happy life.

2) I already made the correlation that the Black culture lacks any serious role-models. They do not have "Bill Nyes" or "Steve Irwins" as I said. Your right. Hell, they need a dude like the artist who used to be on public access just showing the virtue of patience and calming nature.

3) I already said that "Rappers" / "Athletes" were not a valid way to build any kind of fortune when the associated lifestyle is self-centered and selfish. Most of them don't see a $ twenty years later because they failed to spend it in meaningful ways ie financial planning (stocks, bonds, IRA's, CD's, 401K) or family businesses. Market solutions. Yes we're way past your rant in so many ways, and I have 4-5 regular participants who can vouch on every line I've said.

Now, the current progress of this discussion, where you are free to contribute if you watch your mouth, is:

1) a reform/solution to neighborhood watches. Is possible to tweak our current law & enforcement system to have some kind of "Liason" who works with the communitie's activist.
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I honestly do hope I am not offending you when I say this but in my post the things in the quote while having a mild amount of hyperbole are actual phrases I have heard people say to me because when working on a project for a social studies course I interviewed fellow students about their plans for the future such as how the intend on supporting themselves and/or families and many of the young black men and some of the women I questioned had thoughts not unlike those hyperboled(unsure if a word) quotes and the time I used the phrase "Thuggin Niggas" I believe it was it was a shorthand(albeit an offensive one) for a young person who follows the (in my opinion very disgusting) stereotypical rapper/"gangsta" lifestyle (obsession with violence/money, treats women with complete disrespect and all in all a terrible human being) now I apologize if this caused any confusion but most of what was in the quotes while having exaggeration is drawn from real life experience and from phrases I have personally had the (dis)pleasure of being around.

now onto point 2 I do believe a reform in neighborhood watches is called for (but I will admit many of my views are a bit cold and extreme) in a manner of speaking. First,I think we should tighten the grip around the neck of crime discouraging violent crime(battery, abuse, rape, robbery, murder) to the point of life sentences and/or death penalties I think this would be an effective start. Second, encourage law-abiding citizens to carry firearms openly for experience has taught typically people are less likely to attack the armed individual rather than the unarmed civilian. Third, maybe reallocate some funds to plain dressed officers and add an official neighborhood watch of trained individuals. Now, many of you may think my first solution seems excessive and it may very well be but it would also be effective at controlling crime by crushing the proverbial "snakes head" underfoot.

One last thing that has bothered me a bit is the racially segregated associations like the NAACP. They help the black community sure but I believe that changing their focus from just disadvantaged african american people to just disadvantaged people in general for example I am a white male (basically alabaster) and from an incredibly poor family (600$ for 3 people to live on monthly) If I were a woman or a minority I could get support correct? But name 1 white exclusive organization that helps poor white males, and even if one were to form it would be either condemned or burned at the stake for being racist. I think the first step in removing racial issues is the dissolution of race/gender barriers for everything. for example either force the NAACP to accommodate all race/gender or dissolve it by force. again, my methods may seem extreme but they would work sometimes to open a door you have to kick it in.

I do hope everyone will understand what I am getting at if you have any questions just ask and I will clarify any confusion. Thank you for your time
 
:clap:

Thanks for the chilled response. Hell, I think violent lifelong criminal ought to just be shot via firing squad. Yeah they might make money for the prison complex, but the taxpayers (us) have to generally fund the thing.

So lets put it out there: we work hard, barely make ends meet and support criminals to lie on their ass, workout all day, eat meals, dick off all day for free, and we support them for life by being law abiding citizens?

Nah man, thats a stupid friggin system thats dragging our broke nation a little farther in the hole. These child molesters, serial (and non-serial) rapists should either be killed (eye for an eye dude, because study shows that raped boys end up raping... end the cycle by puttin these sick puppies down) or castrated. Note, that if it was my way, the death penalty had to come by hard evidence (DNA, priors) and we'd be euthanizing these bums daily, by the truck load.

But seriously, a reform to make the neighborhood watches compatible with background-verified individuals would help the local police keep our streets safer! Might make the real trouble makers think twice. And thats a good start to changing cultural views, the criminal culture, by saying hey! You either go to school, get a decent job and contribute like everyone else or you rot for a while until the execution que is open and then its your turn.

Extreme? Same here.
 
Crni ive already posted a response to that, its still in this thread if you have any interest, I don't really feel the need to repeat myself.
 
what we do know is very sketchy

martin was walking home from a corner store to his dads apartment.

zimmerman saw him and called the police saying there was a suspicious figure walking around the neighborhood at night. when he saw him walking in between buildings he grabbed his gun and left the car, and then told the 911 person he had left his vehicle and was following him. the 911 dispatcher told him to return to his car and wait for the police. she is legally required to say that regardless of what is happening.

once martin realized he was being followed, he called jeantel, and told her he was being followed and that he was almost home. he got home and then called her again saying about how he wanted to confront the guy following him, where she advised him to confront that "cracka". martin then left his dads apartment.

the whole time zimmerman had thought he lost him and started walking around to see if he could find martin again.

the next third party information we have is from the eye-witness seeing one guy on top of another beating him up MMA style and bashing his head on the concrete while the guy on the bottom was crying for help.

then the gun fired and martin was killed.

then the police got there, took zimmerman into custody, took him back to the station where the forensics team took evidence and photos. then zimmerman was cleaned up, and more photos of the wounds were taken, and those are the photos that were released. not the pre-cleanup photos. they did not find any evidence that zimmerman attempted to resist the beating he sustained in the fight with martin. most noteably they found no dna evidence in places where you would find it if you were defending yourself such as bruises on your knuckles or dna under his fingernails.

they did find that on martins hands and fingernails.
 
Mad Max RW said:
Oh and then there was this http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/george-zimmerman-lie-detector-421395

Zimmerman passed two lie detector tests. The only way to "beat" them is if you're on drugs (police determined he was clean), several months pregnant, or a trained spy.
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Lie detector tests are almost entirely useless to get to the truth of any matter. They are very easily manipulated, and you don't have to be a trained spy to learn how to do that.

I could point you to lots of different studies, but Wikipedia has a fairly complete summary. There's a reason why they're almost never admissible in court.

AmericanSephiroth said:
One last thing that has bothered me a bit is the racially segregated associations like the NAACP. They help the black community sure but I believe that changing their focus from just disadvantaged african american people to just disadvantaged people in general for example I am a white male (basically alabaster) and from an incredibly poor family (600$ for 3 people to live on monthly) If I were a woman or a minority I could get support correct? But name 1 white exclusive organization that helps poor white males, and even if one were to form it would be either condemned or burned at the stake for being racist. I think the first step in removing racial issues is the dissolution of race/gender barriers for everything. for example either force the NAACP to accommodate all race/gender or dissolve it by force. again, my methods may seem extreme but they would work sometimes to open a door you have to kick it in.
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There are a lot of general organisations that work to reduce poverty for everyone who's struggling.

But you're correct. There are no credible organisations that try to reduce the discrimination faced by white people. Because they don't actually face discrimination.

AmericanSephiroth said:
Now, many of you may think my first solution seems excessive and it may very well be but it would also be effective at controlling crime by crushing the proverbial "snakes head" underfoot.
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It wouldn't be effective, though. The result instead would be even more overcrowded jails, a police state and massive opportunities for abuse. You'd be creating a culture of fear, a la North Korea. Oh, except every citizen would have guns, too. Enjoy!
 
Mad Max RW said:
Whites don't face discrimination? Are you sure? And this kind of nonsense is widespread. Lowering the standards for non-whites while leaving them the same for whites IS discrimination.
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That is a pretty interesting case, honestly, and it raises a lot of tough questions. There's a good debate to be had whether what happened is really an issue (there were problems with the test itself, mainly).

But, is this really widespread? Is this really a common issue? Is this more than a relatively isolated incident? And can you genuinely argue that this kind of issue demands advocacy groups that people can't deal with on their own? I don't have the data to really answer those questions, but my first instinct is to say no.

The reason the NAACP is useful is exactly because blacks as a group have issues that are specific to them, and they are as a group in a worse position to bring their cases to court or to public attention than most.
 
Mad Max RW said:
Walpknut said:
Well race may have not been a factor in what happened but it is a factor of the aftermath. It's not only black people complaining but a lot of conservatives jumping on the "Blacks are inferior" wagon. Some people even insist on calling the kid a Thug.
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You mean this kind of aftermath?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...n-car-wont-let-family-take-child-to-hospital/
http://www.click2houston.com/news/l...tors/-/1735978/21009282/-/xa44gh/-/index.html
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I can't believe this, "I gave them instructions not to harm anyone", wait a minute...you had to tell them not to harm anyone? Can someone tell me what is wrong with this picture, anyone at all?
 
Sander said:
But you're correct. There are no credible organisations that try to reduce the discrimination faced by white people. Because they don't actually face discrimination.
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nope. i have been fired before after what turns out was discrimination.

i was working technical support for a nationwide company that had multiple call centers. my customer service evaluations were not that great, but my technical evaluations were almost perfect. too perfect it turns out.

in the course of the 10 months i worked there, i had asked for and gotten 4 approved days off. i was moving so asked for them off, they approved it. i had missed 3 days due to being sick. 7 days in 10 months, 4 of which were approved leave.

then after a comprehensive technical review, i was terminated for attendance reasons. i lived like 5 minutes away from work, and was never late, and was usually 10-15 minutes early.

i had filed for unemployment, it was granted, and the company challenged it saying i was fired with cause. the state did their investigation and within 5 days their challenge was overturned saying the company failed to provide any evidence that my attendance in any way damaged them financially. ie: 3 days in 10 months was not justification for termination.

fast forward 2 years. i get into a discussion with someone i know who had recently been promoted and was doing reports for management. it turns out that before that technical review that i was fired shortly after, there had always been a woman on that list. after the technical review it was determined that my technical knowledge was superior enough to to put me at the #3 spot for technical knowledge for all 4 call centers knocking 2 other guys down and the woman off the top 5. so they terminated me so they could have a woman in the top 5 for technical knowledge making themselves look better and more diverse.
 
It's much worse when you realize where the problem starts: Education. The education system (my field) is so heavily regulated by progressives you can be illiterate and graduate highschool if categorized as a minority. In mostly black schools the graduation rate is less than 50%. More than 50% of the students are incorrectly diagnosed with a learning disability. The numbers in the equivalent white schools are nowhere close. So what's happening? Blacks are told all their lives they are victims, never take responsibility, don't try, and are more likely to give up because of it. They are told everything is racist. Go to any inner city school and you will see the disparity.

Teachers who struggle to make a difference are forced to comply or else get blackballed for life. The rest are terrified of being called racist if they speak out. And don't get me started on the corrupt teachers' union. The students who do make it into the workforce or onto college are at a huge disadvantage because the progressives put them there by lowering standards. The rest drop out, never work, start having kids at a really young age who they can't take care of, and end up in jail because they don't know how to survive without resorting to crime. The government's solution is to create more regulations forcing businesses to lower their hiring standards to "help" a class they created. It's a system progressives have been working on for a century.

A little about me: Since 2006 I've been working in an administration position at a well known private university in New Haven, Connecticut. I have daily access to the national student database which goes directly to the federal government. If you went to school in the US I can see your medical history, criminal record, job record, social security number, what pets you have, everything. And it updates long after you finish school. Since the public sector is crumbling, people (teachers who are willing to take a pay-cut to actually teach properly and black families wanting their kids to have a chance) are rushing into the private system. The state and federal government, run by progressives, sees what is going on and is forcing the same regulations that failed them everywhere else. This drives up tuition costs and bankrupts schools. Teachers can't get anymore raises to pay for the ever-increasing living costs. Loans are denied to students wanting to go to private universities of their choice. So many good schools in my state have closed in the last couple years with kids being forced back into the broken public system. And it's the same pattern nationwide. The worst of it is in liberal states such as Connecticut and California.

God, I didn't expect to type so much and there's so much more I can go into here such as how it correlates with killing small business, increase the poverty rate and growing the voter base for Democrats. The short version is people are being brainwashed starting at childhood.
 
All I want to say is 'acting white', in popular black culture, has to go. A lot of prominent african americans have talked about how detrimental the belief is including Bill Cosby and Barrack Obama.

Also, IMO, it does seem like comparing apples to oranges when folks compare our education system (an everyone succeeds/the class moves as fast as the slowest student), to countries with an educational system thats much more brutal with high attrtion rates (such as Japan where only those who can pay for and have the required intellect can pursue highschool and college).

Our educational system sucks. Its so heavily biased towards rote memorization then actual critical thinking and problem solving skills. No wonder we score lower.

PS: One the one hand, a lot of folks do not want tax increases for education as many see the public educational system as a failure. On the other, the big government folks love to lay the blame for failure on lack of funding.

Both sides need to reach a comprimise where federal mandates in regards to curriculum and teaching methodology gets better, which, in turn, shows the public that the government is spending the tax payers money wisely encouraging more investment.
 
DarkCorp said:
All I want to say is 'acting white', in popular black culture, has to go. A lot of prominent african americans have talked about how detrimental the belief is including from Bill Cosby to Barrack Obama.

Also, IMO, it does seem like comparing apples to oranges when folks compare our education system (an everyone succeeds/the class moves as fast as the slowest student), to countries with an educational thats much more brutal with high attrtion rates (such as Japan where only the berightest can test in).

Our educationl system sucks. Its so heavily biased towards rote memorization then actual critical thinking and problem solving.
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Well "acting white" as it is called is not such a bad thing is it? especially compared to at many call "acting black".

Also, while it may be comparing apples to oranges one cannot deny the fact that our educational system is a flop. for example while i was in class I went to a public school and i was more knowledgable than most teachers and I don't mean to be insulting but who cares if johnny numbnuts is left behind when it stifles people with real potential by crippling the rate at which they learn cause little timmy is 21 and in 5th grade struggling to spell(hyperbole I know).

A potential compromise to this is have 3 separate levels of schooling, one for the slowpokes who quite frankly don't really belong in school that is at the level of current schooling(at the pace of the slow ones who take 75 years to learn algebra), a second for average to above-average students that works a set pace that isn't too fast but will challenge many, and a third that is for the very swift learning or very intelligent where the pace and the education is very unforgiving and would be a challenge for pretty much everyone. To prevent potential race/gender discrimination base it all on a basic test of intellect(with absolutely NO CURVE BASED ON ANYTHING RELATED TO BIRTH) and while this may seem cold it could unlock more peoples potential especially if these were all public school options not to say what the private schools could add to this.

by the way i apologize in advance for any mild spelling or spacing errors my keyboard isn't taking age gracefully and I lack the means to replace it.
 
AmericanSephiroth said:
Well "acting white" as it is called is not such a bad thing is it? especially compared to at many call "acting black".
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"Acting white" certainly isn't a bad thing, in fact, the behaviors associated with "acting white' are all very positive; but unfortunately that's something that will get you ridiculed/bullied by other blacks. As has been mentioned earlier, if you're black there is a very real social stigma created by fellow blacks about paying attention in school and trying to be a good student, far more than white students face.


AmericanSephiroth said:
A potential compromise to this is have 3 separate levels of schooling, one for the slowpokes who quite frankly don't really belong in school that is at the level of current schooling(at the pace of the slow ones who take 75 years to learn algebra), a second for average to above-average students that works a set pace that isn't too fast but will challenge many, and a third that is for the very swift learning or very intelligent where the pace and the education is very unforgiving and would be a challenge for pretty much everyone. To prevent potential race/gender discrimination base it all on a basic test of intellect(with absolutely NO CURVE BASED ON ANYTHING RELATED TO BIRTH) and while this may seem cold it could unlock more peoples potential especially if these were all public school options not to say what the private schools could add to this.
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We already have that, at least here in Florida. The overachieving students are sent to "gifted" classes, which have a very low student to teacher ratio and offer advanced courses, and a significantly higher quality of learning. The average students are crammed into classrooms with an extremely high student:teacher ratio that gets worse every year. Then you have the "slow" kids (which is almost entirely just blacks who don't give a fuck and don't even want to be there in the first place) who are put in the remedial classes. Finally there's the "special ed" kids who have severe learning/mental disabilities who receive very small scale hands on teaching like the gifted students.

The problem with the "slow" classes is that they don't teach shit. They're literally just state-sponsored daycare, with students that don't give a fuck and teachers that equally don't give a fuck. You'll watch movies all day, maybe do some really basic math/literature that's only 3-4 grades behind if the teachers are feeling particularly spicy. Then they pass those students, and send them right on up to the next grade where it starts all over again.

That is how Rachel Jeantel made it to the 12th grade.



@MM

Very enlightening, thank you for that.

Based on your experience, what would be the percent of fellow administrators/professors/general staff who share your political views, or could at least be classified as conservative? Do they speak openly about it, or is being openly conservative in that environment dangerous to your continued employment?
 
Maybe 80%. From my experience nearly everybody in the offices and on staff are more conservative or libertarian. Unlike liberals they have to see more than a day ahead. Everything we do is planned for the next year, 5 years, and 10 years and never spend beyond what we took in the previous year. We are a business and every student represents what we sell. Because of this we have the best teachers and facilities with state of the art tech.
The only people who wear their politics on their sleeve are the president (very conservative) and a handful of younger teachers and most students (very liberal). The last few years of Obama and experiencing firsthand what his healthcare overhaul is doing to student loans has left them very disillusioned.

In state public schools it's flipped. Almost everybody is super liberal from the top (president) to the accountants and substitute teachers. And they wonder why they are always desperate for cash. Teachers burnout so fast, too. The unions rule with the constant threat of protests. Half the teachers do not want to join but they also want to work and teach kids because they love doing it. The federal designed syllabus is a joke. So they go along and keep their mouths shut until they burn out or sacrifice their pension and move to the private sector. That doesn't apply to everybody but is the vast majority.

The ACCSCT (Accreditation Commission of Career Schools and Colleges) is entirely liberal and very corrupt. They decide who lives and dies.
 
That guy who did Super High me, Super Size me, traveled to Finland and examined their education which is 2nd in the world. Less daily school times, more recess, more relaxation, and contrary to that trend, the children seemed very disciplined and quiet for the teacher. OH yeah, they were fluent in English while dude spoke(interrupted) with laughter during the teachers discussion.

Anyway, how is it that less is more? They spend 20% less per student yet their children are lightyears beyond us? Is it the soothing atmosphere? The exciting teachers? Seems like some of our European members have the answer, and if they are reading the thread, please feel free to add your thoughts on your education.

All I remember from school is, you either go to shitty school with the sheeple herd or you prove high academically and go to charter/private school. I was lucky to score advanced from third grade up, slipped up middle school, but made it back in in high school time.

Anyways, I feel like in the future, the "utopian" age :lol: will be alive when we finally decide to manage our hierarchies through intellect and not brawn.
 
a lot of it is the students.

they dont have a real desire to be there and learn. as a culture in the US our children and teenagers do not value education and learning.

that is the core of the problem. thats what we have to fix in the US. get the children to want to learn and value their education, and a lot of the issues and problems will fix them.

a lot of it is a peer issue.
 
Some of it is the kids, some of its the teaching methods, some of its the curriculum itself.

Who wants to listen to an instructor/teacher drone on and fucking on about a subject? Why were some of the best classes I had, all emphasized student driven?

Funnest things I remember in school were debates, science, world government.
 
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