Girlfiriends and Love

Ok so Morhg succeeded. Good for him.

Who says love has to involve people. I mean sexually speaking its wrong to make love to an animal, but if love is really thoughts and feelings is it ok to love an animal like a cherished friend or family member? What about material possessions? I think being around nature make's me feel what I would like to think is "love".

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
I love my main computer and my small collection of 4 old ones. Does that count? (No I haven't named them, but I couldn't live without them.)
 
No Calculon- that doesn't count.

PS and Malk- enough of the both of you. I am tempted to weed out both your threads.

Alec- glad to hear that you are getting some these days. I have often asked the same question- does love change as you get older. I think it does. Some of the youthful innocense, ignorance, fear and self-esteem issues fall by the side. Some of the passion may cool as well, but not as much as you may think. The problem for the older guy is the past. You think back on the relationships you had, the feelings you had, and you compare.

But that is dangerous. All relationships are unique, all individual and you should never expect the last to look like the first. In fact, by doing so you threatened to undermine the good thing you got. Love has to be about appreciating the person for who the person is and what they do for your life. Holding them to a standard of someone else, or a different time, is unfair.

As for me- it was mostly feast or famine. I got tired of starving during famine times and therefore ate well doing feast years. But I sympathize with what a lot of you guys are saying. It took me awhile to get over issues of fear and self-confidence.

The thing is that a lot of girls are too shy to take the first step, and are actually attracted to the guy who is able to move first. As Malk points out, confidence goes a long way.

I was at a party a couple of years back where a few fairly hot 23-27 year olds were saying how difficiult it was to meet someone, and how they were impressed when a guy tried to pick them up.

That said, I think you guys are also right- there is a heirarchy. Sex is easy to get, girlfriends are harder and love hardest of all.

That said, you got to like yourself before someone else will (unless you are looking for charity). The more you apprecaite yourself, the more your self-confidence and more you are willing to appreciate what you can bring to a relationship. Be cool with yourslef and everyone else.

If you don't like yourself, if you don't appreciate who you are and what you can bring to a relationship, you just asking for someone not to appreciate you either.

And don't wear your heart on your sleeve when you are going to ask a girl out. Be cool about it.

As for me, been married for about three years and really love it. Before that I had a few long-term relationships, and have been in love twice before. It's good if you get it, but sometimes it's hard to keep. As Montez points out, distinguish the "love" from the "infatuation". Love is meaningful but difficult, infatuation is easy.
 
both of my parents have been divorced at least 2-3 times apiece, so by now im pretty sure that i know the "do's" and numerious "donts". DONT give your wife electrical applances for birthdays/christmas/aniversarys, dont say "gee honey you have beautiful streach marks", dont stay out of town for long periods of time ect ect.

well as i can date untill im 16 anyways, im still single.....at the moment im not "looking" for a relationship but its not hard for me to get caught up in those "Summer Romances" ya know the "water park type". but i figure there will be plenty of time later for relationships so why take on all that responsibillity right now? get an education, good job, and then, maby a family.
 
welsh said:
The thing is that a lot of girls are too shy to take the first step, and are actually attracted to the guy who is able to move first.
Then they wouldn't really be attracted to me (or any of the "low self confidence types" in this thread. They'd be attracted to the part I was playing.

Sure, it may get you laid, but I'd rather not start things off with someone (romantically I mean) with an outright lie.

Anyway, enough ranting about this. If I really wanted to find someone for the sake of having a warm body (either in bed or as a default partner) then I'd do what you say.
 
Big T said:
Then they wouldn't really be attracted to me (or any of the "low self confidence types" in this thread. They'd be attracted to the part I was playing.

Sure, it may get you laid, but I'd rather not start things off with someone (romantically I mean) with an outright lie.

See, that's where you and others get it wrong. It's not about "acting" or not being yourself, it's just about working up the courage to actually talk to them. The point is to be yourself, but to just give yourself enough of a nudge to briefly get past your fear and insecurity. Once you take that first step it gets easier and easier, and women start to seem less and less like distant but unnattainable goals and more like actual human beings. Sure, it's awkward at first, but so is everything else that you try for the first time.

If you really aren't interested in dating or in any particular woman, don't force it, of course - but if you are, just realize that you have to put a little bit of effort forth. Sure, you'll most likely end up meeting someone you care about anyway and it will probably happen "naturally". Then again, isn't it better to be able to have some sort of influence over your life? Do you really want to never have the opportunity to get close to some girl you're really interested in just because fortune never arranged it properly for you?

Unfortunately, I know from experience that shy people almost always end up having to learn the hard way no matter what advice people give them. The older I get though, the more it bothers me that I didn't/couldn't act on when I was younger what through experience seems like common sense. Eh, I guess it can't be avoided.
 
I lie all the time to get laid. Not lies that I take initiative to, but if some girl I am 'working on' presents to me an utterly weird opinion, I often choose to nod my head and say something like "yeah, I know"...

Stop looking at me like that.
 
Luke said:
I lie all the time to get laid. Not lies that I take initiative to, but if some girl I am 'working on' presents to me an utterly weird opinion, I often choose to nod my head and say something like "yeah, I know"...

)A girl and Luke have a conversation:

-Girl:So your gay right?
-Luke: Yeah, I know.
-Girl:You like it in the ass yes?
-Luke:Yeah, I know.
-Girl:Wanna meet my abusive ex-boyfriend?
-Luke:Yeah, I know.

That could be a bit dangerous...agreeing to everything. Im joking by the way.

Yeah, I know,
The Vault Dweller
 
You're right - I'm sorry.

Guess I'm still a little itchy about that other thing.
 
PS- You have been warned.

But yes, it's like Montez says- it's a matter of confidence.

But it's also an age thing, and that's something to be careful of. The older you get and the more confident you get, the more you come to appreciate women as just being people with more enjoyable sex organs. No reason to be intimidated by them, or feel devestated should they ruin your ego. They're probably as screwed up as you are.

But confidence matters, and part of that has to do with being comfortable with yourself and liking yourself. (Get your hand out of your pants Morgh, we all know what you like to paint a clown face on).

But there something about age that matters too. A lot of you guys are young so it makes sense that you have self-confidence issues and are shy. If you muscle up the courage to ask out a girl you like and she rejects you, it's a ego blow and sometimes it's hard to overcome that. The older you get, the more causal become your relationships with women, the more easier it is to form meaningful connections.

But back to that age thing- be aware that girls are going through their own issues as well. Just as a lot of you younger guys are getting issues of self-confidence, a lot of younger girls are figuring out who they are, what their sexuality means. That leads to a mess of emotions and some hurt feelings.

Accept that women are trying to get their shit together just as you are. So it's easy to get hurt when you are in high school or in college, or if one of the two are playing headgames or cheats or ends the relationship for stupid reasons.

This lasts, in my opinion, well through college. After college girls are often attached or bitter about something serious that didn't work out. But as girls get older they get more casual and more fun because they figure themselves out. Which is cool, because the guys are usually getting their shit together at about the same time.

In my opinion, the best dating years start after college, probably between 24-30. At that age they are usually past being girls and well on the way to being mature women. When I was 25 I was dating a girl that was 21, and swore never again. It's the age thing.

But you see, when you're thinking about girls you're usually thinking about how you see things, how you feel and it doesn't make much sense that they don't understand. Well the same goes for the girls. So be a little forgiving of each other and take it casual.

That last bit advice is, in my opinion, the wisest course. Don't take the first six months of a relationship too seriously. Have fun with it, enjoy it, get to know the person, and be yourself. If it doesn't work out, well, ok. It was fun while it lasted. If after six months, check it again and take stock of your relationship. Are you emotionally tight?

Honestly really matters. A good relationship is kind of like getting naked emotionally. Being yourself and being appreciated for that. That's the risk in a relationship- that the person you're with won't appreciate you for what you are about. But that's what a good relationship gives you- the freedom to be yourself, honestly, with someone you really value and to appreciate a person for who they really are.
 
Being an adult kinda implies you're past those problems, y'know.

Then again, being adult and not getting any is not exactly what the society looks upon as a normal condition.
 
Welsh has a great idea of how a relationship should work. If it were that only easy and people weren't so afraid to feel.

I am happy. I got a girl. A nice girl, Roadrunner. We're two years and change. And who knows?

We can talk, we have similar interest and we get along famously. She's the best thing to happen to me in a long time and well we just complement each other.
 
I agree Caribe- if only it were that easy. My point is mostly not to put too much pressure on a relationship to fast and let things happen as they will.

One needs to distinguish between what what you think a relationship "should be," "what a relationship can be" and what your relationship is.

To many times a person puts too much pressure on a relationship to be too serious. Othertimes the person is thinking too much about the future, and sometimes a person has so many expectations of their partner that the relationship falls apart under the weight of so many burdens.

Best, as Caribe seems to have, is a relationship in which the two are attracted as friends and as sexual partners.

Sometimes people don't want to have a relationship because "we're friends". Other times you might have a relationship with someone for years, and you really don't like the person as a friend. So that's difficult too.

In the first situation- you can't force a fit. If you've got a friend who you are romantically interested in and the person is not interested in you- forget the sex and enjoy the friendship. Not everyone is attracted to everyone else. If you guys are both turned on by each other, than the forces of attraction will often put you together in the end. Either way, just enjoy it for what it is.

But if you are sleeping with someone that you don't really like, or perhaps the angry sex is really good but the person is despicable- well that's pretty kinky. Not that this could work better if it's the woman who doesn't like you.

_________

She said, "you're one of the most despicable, foul, crude and noisome individuals I have ever met."

He said, "Well, so then why do we keep doing this every afternoon?"

She said, "It's the sex. Just the sex."

_______


Change the pronouns. In my opinion it's more like that this relationship would last if it's the girl who has issues.

It is possible that the guy doesn't like the girl. I've been in this relationship before. THe trick is simple- don't tell her.

_______

He said, "You know I like that thing you do with that tongue, but I hate it when you speak."

She said, "I'm not sure. You like me going down, but don't like me speaking?"

He said, "That's correct. You're skilled sexually, but in terms of conversation you're either a moron or so morally vacuous that listening to you is almost unbearable. In fact, if you weren't so physically hot and incredible sexually, I don't think I could stand this relationship."

She said nothing for a long moment. Then she went into the kitchen to remove the hammer she kept in the second draw for such occassions.

_________

Ok, to avoid this consequence, dump her. Look, in the end sex with the same person becomes monotonous.

You can only sleep with the same person a couple thousand times without feeling any emotions when you start to wonder, "gosh wouldn't be nice have great sex with someone I really feel something about."
 
Wow, thanks Welsh!

I mean it, thank you. I never thought I could read about this in a forum. This thread helped me quite a bit on the relationship thing, mostly because I am in that age I guess.
 
Ya know all the succesful marriages Ive seen have two things in common.

1-The people are decent. They dont lie, steal, or generally mistreat each other.

2-The enjoy each other. Same profession, same hobbies, and same goals generally.

Would you all agree thinking of what you've seen?

:idea: ,
The Vault Dweller
 
True of my marriage.

I had a rather illuminating conversation with a young lady tonight (college age chick) who defined a "nice" guy as-

(1) Confident
(2) Successful
(3) Treats women well

Note that only one of three realtes to moral character.

The problem with shy guys are, according to her, that they are spineless and it's kind of creepy. How is a girl supposed to know that you like them if you don't talk.

ANd that whole stalking thing- kind of creepy.

Again, this comes down to friendship really. Feeling comfortable talking to women is the first stage of getting a girlfriend.

I mean look at Malk. It's not his looks certainly.
 
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