Girlfiriends and Love

[Tacodog89]

Thanks

Howdy folks, long time reader first time poster dude here and I've got to say thanks. Great thread and its cool to see how other people are and how that other people are going through the same things ya know. Well I'm one of those young dudes (high school) and right now ya its confusing on whats what and whos who. Haven’t had any relationships mostly for the reason someone stated earlier, that I didn’t know if I was ready for it yet, I mean there are a lot of responsibilities that come along with being relationship ya know? Also I'm that dense dude who can’t pick up when a girl is interested heh. Though the one girl I like now, I don’t know but it feels genuine, not that "oh she’s hot let me at it" kinda thing, but since haven’t been in a relationship heh I don’t know yet. And ya we have been talkin, and it helps just to talk about things you both have in common, which in my case is love of music and singing.
Here's to hopin it works out.

P.S. Weird observation, but I noticed that I only like to listen to love songs when they first come out and when I like someone, for ex. The Cure - Love Song, just something to think about.

Peace

 

[The Vault Dweller]

Thats too bad about that girl Welsh...I mean who wants a lover that shows everything at once? Shy guys are just slower to show themselves and I think will show more gratitude to someone patient enough to understand them. Just as they would be to someone willing to go that far into them.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[Montez]

Thats too bad about that girl Welsh...I mean who wants a lover that shows everything at once? Shy guys are just slower to show themselves and I think will show more gratitude to someone patient enough to understand them. Just as they would be to someone willing to go that far into them.

That's true, Vault Dweller. I'll affirm that what welsh related is more or less the attitude that a lot of women have towards shy men, though. It shouldn't matter that much to you, of course, but it's still a good thing to keep in mind. *Most* people aren't willing to put all the work into a relationship, and if you ever have a girlfriend or date with whom it's a constant effort to keep conversation going, and who isn't doing much besides looking vaguely unconfortable and staring at the floor you'll understand their point of view. It's just not worth the hassle.

It's the same thing as with insecure women - after days or months of constantly reassuring her about everything that's constantly bothering her you eventually get fed up when your efforts have made absolutely no change in her outlook and realize they never will, because she isn't making any effort whatsoever to get over her insecurities even though you're trying to help her. No matter how much value you assign to yourself or your "inner worth", it's a rare person that is going to put up with the bullshit of constantly coaxing you out of your shell.

Keeping that in mind might help shy peoples self-esteem the next time nothing happens some girl they're infatuated with. It's not "you", it's the way you act - because from the other person's point of view, there is no "you" as far as personality is concerned. You might as well be a statue, because all you're presenting to her is a physical appearance.

 

[Francisco M L S G S]

Keeping that in mind might help shy peoples self-esteem the next time nothing happens some girl they're infatuated with. It's not "you", it's the way you act - because from the other person's point of view, there is no "you" as far as personality is concerned. You might as well be a statue, because all you're presenting to her is a physical appearance.

That is so true. If you're ugly and / or styleless you will only get laid with ugly women (that, of course if you EVEN get laid at all), it sucks.

However, if you're looking for love and a girl falls for you it will definitely not be for your appearance, it will be for your personality.

But nice guys still finish last.

 

[Big T]

Then they wouldn't really be attracted to me (or any of the "low self confidence types" in this thread. They'd be attracted to the part I was playing.

The point is to be yourself, but to just give yourself enough of a nudge to briefly get past your fear and insecurity.

There's a difference here?
Those two statements (in bold) look like the same thing to me - just different wording (Well, sorta - obviously they are in different perspectives, but the meaning correlates).

But, what for?

Seriously. What for?
Sure, I might be able to convince myself to pretend I was comfortable approaching them, and may even be able to blag my way into a relationship with them. But I wouldn't be happy. She wouldn't be happy. Why would I want to be with somebody who was not into me? What makes you think I could keep up the facade even if I wanted to?

Sure, I could lie to get a bit more "lucky" in love, but what would the point be if it just made both people involved unhappy?

Once you take that first step it gets easier and easier, and women start to seem less and less like distant but unnattainable goals and more like actual human beings. Sure, it's awkward at first, but so is everything else that you try for the first time.

See, this is what I'm saying. I'm not interested in "attaining" women for the sake of it.
What would the point be?

If you really aren't interested in dating or in any particular woman, don't force it, of course

Ah, now we agree. I'm not going to force it.

Do you really want to never have the opportunity to get close to some girl you're really interested in just because fortune never arranged it properly for you?

Oh, I'm not waiting for fortune to arrange things for me. I don't think I'm a character in a movie.
Sure, I have the occasional dream/semi-conscious daydream where I think "I wish I found someone to love/settle down with/whatever" but it's in pretty much the same way that kids wish upon stars. I don't expect it to happen, I don't put too much faith into it (or indeed any) and I don't really care.

I do know that I'd rather be lonely on my own then unhappy in company.

See? This is part of the reason I'm trying to take a break from this place. I'm taking it far too seriously.

But nice guys still finish last.

Heh. Seems to be the case. Depends which race you're in, or whether you're running at all.

 

[Gonzalez]

I know a girl that if it weren't because every time we get to talk we are time pressed we could talk for hours.
She is really smart and that is something I found very rarely in most people.

So, this is a girl that I feel comfortable to speak with, wit enough topics of conversation to keep talking for hours, but she already has a boyfriend.
In the meantime I like to think of her like a friend, and I am actually aiming my efforts to find a relationship somewhere else.

The first time we meet se started the conversation, and I talked back being myself, without any prejudges or fears of any kind.
At first I thought this girl had some interest in me or had developed some during our conversation, but I later found while talking to her that she had a boyfriend, I didn't cared and taught she was still a person you could have a conversation with.

Actually I think she is the person I most like to talk with. And besides she is pretty I don't seem to have any physically attraction for her, at least not like I had for other girls before.

How would you describe this?

 

[welsh]

Big T- a lot to think about there. But I have a few quick points.

Dishonesty is not healthy in a relationship if you want it to go more than a night. That said, as Montez points out, waiting for things to happen means nothing is going to happen.

As my old Grandma used to say, "He who waits (or hesitates), masturbates)."

But people get to know each other over time, they learn each other and initial impressions sometimes fall to better understanding.

When I was in college there were a few girls who said to me "You know, when I first started going out with you, I thought you were kind of dangerous. But we've been together now a few months and actually you're rather different, nicer than I thought."

To which I would respond, "Are you disappointed?"

To which they usually said, "No, just surprised."

Don't wear you're heart on your sleeve or show them everything. To do so shows low self-esteem and no one wants someone who doesn't value themselves.

I agree with what Montez is saying. It might be worthwhile to discover a shy person. But what if you try and discover the person really is kind of boring and uninteresting.

And old girlfriend used to say about quiet guys"still waters run deep." To which I would respond, "That or they're shallow as hell and grow pond scum."

Besides being shy often hides low-self esteem. Better self-esteem doesn't mean you're cool, just that you are your own person and fuck what other people think - which is a sign of confidence.

SO being shy = high maintenance.

High maintenance is tolerable in girls, although low maintenance is better.

High maintenance is unacceptable for guys.

Ok, so maybe the rewards of the shy guy/girl are worth it sometimes (but of course you won't know until after awhile).

Most people you will meet will last 1-3 dates before you figure out "this sucks" and it's over. Given that, no one usually has the time or patience to figure out the shy person.

And why should they? Dating shouldn't be so difficult and it shouldn't be work. People go out to have fun, enjoy each other, share a little romance and maybe get some sex. More than that, and you're probably asking too much.

With regard to Francisco and the Ugly man-
No.

It's much harder for an ugly chick to get a guy than an ugly guy. Why?

Men fall in love through the eyes, women through the ears. A man is attracted by how the girl looks. Women often prefer how a man sounds, what he says, what he does. That's why horny guys check out porno and horny girls read erotica.

Also note- often women will find men who are "ugly sexy." Case in point- Jack Nicholson has never been a handsome men, but some women find him adorable. Robert Deniro is probably also ugly sexy. In having this dicussion while watching the X-files, my wife said that Skinner was ugly sexy, while Mulder was handsome sexy.

Ugly men can get laid, get girlfriends and fall in love. Part of the reason is women are a lot more forgiving and generous than men. The other reason is that ugly men can still have great personalities.

Now the issue becomes one of "friends" and one of "sex partners"

As guys you have to remember that one danger to get laid is becoming "a buddy". A buddy is a person of the opposite sex who is not consider in a sexual way. This is fine if you're gay, but it sucks if you're straight and you want to bone a girl who is a friend. Note, this is very distinctive from the illusive "Friends with privileges" category.

 

[Montez]

snip

Being able to summon a little courage is not the same thing as pretending that you are someone else - unless you take cowardice to be the main defining characteristic of your personality, which I doubt you do. If you meet a girl that you genuinely like shyness is going to get in the way, no matter how much you are into each other - that's all I'm saying. Having a little self-confidence is not just a trick for getting sex, and it's in everyone's best interests to try and develop it if they don't have it already. Do you honestly think it's not, or are you just being pessimistic?

And talking to a girl in no way obligates you to her, so I have no idea where your weird belief that you're going to end up in some miserable sham relationship because of it comes from. If you have nothing in common, you don't pursue it, simple as that. You seem to think I'm trying to encourage you to hit on and pursue every girl you find vaguely attractive - I'm not. I'm just offering what little advice I have to give on the subject in the hopes that it can be of some benefit, and I wouldn't be directling it towards you if I didn't think that it applied to what you said or implied that you were looking for.

 

[Big T]

Having a little self-confidence is not just a trick for getting sex, and it's in everyone's best interests to try and develop it if they don't have it already. Do you honestly think it's not, or are you just being pessimistic?

Possibly. I just don't think it's worth changing oneself, forcing oneself to do things which are against one's character. Am I really being me if I'm forcing myself to approach girls just to fulfil society's notion that everybody must pair up at the earliest opportunity or die unhappy? Does caving into that pressure somehow make me a stronger person? Because that is what you are trying to suggest.
It's not that I would say cowardice defines me (perhaps it does, but it's not something I'm consciously aware of), but that I have other reasons (which I've already stated somewhat) for not coming forwards more often.

And talking to a girl in no way obligates you to her, so I have no idea where your weird belief that you're going to end up in some miserable sham relationship because of it comes from.

Heh, I don't think that's necessarily where any particular relationship would end up. But if that becomes the pattern that potential relationships take, then it wouldn't be too much of a stretch of the imagination.

If you have nothing in common, you don't pursue it, simple as that.

I'm not. That's kinda the point.

You seem to think I'm trying to encourage you to hit on and pursue every girl you find vaguely attractive - I'm not. I'm just offering what little advice I have to give on the subject in the hopes that it can be of some benefit, and I wouldn't be directling it towards you if I didn't think that it applied to what you said or implied that you were looking for.

I realise that you're not telling me to do that and I appreciate the attempt to give me advice. I think perhaps I've not explained things properly, or that I don't understand them entirely myself. I'm just naturally kind of shut in with myself (or my emotions, if you wat to describe it that way). Yes, I realise that sounds pretty weird when you consider the posts that I have made in this thread, but I'm often a little contradictory. As I say, I don't really understand my self properly.
One thing I think needs pointing out is that I didn't post here to be the centre of attention, or to get any sympathy, I just wanted to get my point of view across to Welsh. It's not always as simple as he seems to be saying, or seemed to be at the beginning of the thread at any rate.

 

[Montez]

You're making good points and keeping the discussion interesting, no need to apologize or feel like you're bringing undue attention on yourself.

Anyway, I think I'm officially sick of writing or thinking about relationships, so here's a quote from the Butthole Surfers for everyone:

-Daddy?
-Yes, son?
-What does regret mean?
-Well, son, the funny thing about regret is that it’s better to regret something you have done than something you haven’t. Oh, and by the way, if you see your mother this weekend be sure and tell her… SATAN! SATAN! SATAN!

 

[[PCE]el_Prez]

Two words: Liquid courage

If you don't know what that means... have a few drinks..... trust me, talking to girls will be easier then you ever imagined.

 

[Suicide Candidate]

Adding to el_Prez:
Don't overdo it though. Nothing gets you less chicks than throwing up

 

[Francisco M L S G S]

Two words: Liquid courage

If you don't know what that means... have a few drinks..... trust me, talking to girls will be easier then you ever imagined.

Talking will be easier, but it doesn't mean you will say anything at all, and if you drink too much no one will take you seriously, girls will just laugh.

Men fall in love through the eyes, women through the ears. A man is attracted by how the girl looks. Women often prefer how a man sounds, what he says, what he does. That's why horny guys check out porno and horny girls read erotica.

It's hard to discuss this, every person (male or female) is a different case. But generally, relationships are much simpler to men than to women. Men, because they fall in love with their eyes, often end in a failed relation (that lasts no longer than a couple of months). Also, breaking up is easier for man, in most cases men break up because they want to, because they've grown tired of that relation and want another experience. Women however are much more connected to their fellings, it's harder for them to be rejected or to break up and there are always some feelings in their relations. This is, of course, my opinion and I'm speaking generally.

But the way things are now, men and women are starting to "love" the same way: with the eyes.

 

[welsh]

Well Francisco- I will disagree with your generalizations a bit.

Women may be more emotional but I have often found them more confused about that emotional issue then me. A woman going through the trials of discovering her femine or sexuality can be confusing. Plus there's the whole menstrual thing where they start getting cranky for reasons they can't fully explain.

Seriously, about every month my wife used to go into this whole criticial self and spousal evaluation thing. It used to get me down but then I started adding up the weeks and discovered it happens just about every four weeks. Now she's like, "I'm pissed off but it's ok, it's just my biology."

Don't discount the physical causes of depression or anxiety. Women might be more emotional, into relationships, into feelings (women like cuddling/men want sex), and good conversation, etc.

FOr guys, I think a lot of it comes down to ego and the "mr fixit complex." Ego means looking good and feeling good and explains the trophy wife or the hot girlfriend that you really don't like. The Mr. Fixit complex comes up because guys like to act and put things right. It probably comes down to the genetic biological issues.

Cave woman says "Me have Hunger."

Cave man says, "Oh Hmmm.. OK I kill Mastadon to feed you."

At the primative level men hunt and kill to eat and please the woman, attracting chicks with accomplishments so they can have more sex and thus propogate likenesses of themselves- again an ego thing.

But women nest.

WHile we might go out and kill animals to feed the woman, the woman's genetic code means that she's more interested in finding a partner for the nesting- this is where the confidence, strength, success and ambition issues probably originate.

So, getting primative women want to know that they have a guy who will go kill the mastadon, not some guy who is too chicken shit to stick a spear in a big woolly mammoth.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

Thats a perfect explanation Welsh. I love how you explain it as "primitive" compulsion's 'cause its true...

For better or worse how different are relationships from what you just explained though? I mean I know women want masculine men...provider's, strong, and confident.

However how does it explain why women often find men who can cry or talk to them like an equal so attractive? I always thought that even though they may be attracted to "men" its much easier to understand and trust oneself so why not find someone more related to you?

Im just wondering how much women want a man for his "manliness" and how much for his "femininity"...

The only girls who have been attracted to me, at least I think so, seem to like that I can relate to them.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[Ashmo]

Hm... a counter-impression I've made is that many girls these days apparently "want" men who treat them like dirt and actually don't care about them wouldn't it be for the sex.
I suppose it's mostly about physical attraction, but for some reason most of these girls seem to pretend the guys would be attracted to them for other reasons eventually and -- hopefully -- they break up shortly thereafter.

Maybe it's a maturity thing. I suppose most adolescents think of relationships to be founded on sexual attraction and gradually come to think of that factor as less important the more they mature. At least that's what I think I've observed.

Then again, maybe I'm just hoping girls get more sensible as they grow older.

I got to say that no matter the physical attraction the personality of some girls can be a BIG turn-off for me.

 

[welsh]

Women do get more sensible as they get older, and geeky guys generally get luckier as they age as well.

Lets go back to Vault Dweller's question.

The thing that men fear most from women is------ being laughed at.

The thing that women fear most from men is------ being killed.

No joke. I'm a pretty big guy but generally fairly gentle, but a few women I have dated have mentioned that they were a bit afraid of me because they knew that if I wanted to, and if I lost control, I could kill them quickly.

Ask most guys what they fear and it's humiliation.

So why do women go for sensitive guys- it might be the reduction in violence, it might be that they believe that they can relate better to a sensitive guy, or it might be that the sensitive guy is more likely to be a partner in taking care of the nest.

Back to Ashmo's question- why do girls like men who treat them like dirt? Two potential answers.

(1) It's satisfies their expectations. Remember, it's the ego thing. But people like to go out with someone when they know what they can expect. A lot of girls have esteem issues, some worse than others, and therefore expect a guy who will treat them poorly. In some cases they might even dump the guy that treats them well because it does not satisfy what they expect from a relationship. These women either grow up, get beaten or marry assholes.

That's kind of sad. But the other is not so bad-

(2) Excitement. Girls want romance and adventure, and "bad boys" are more fun than "nice guys". This is different from the "shy guys" = high maintenance problem. Rather, this situation is more like that above- except the expectations are about excitement and romance. Why go out with someone boring when excitement is more titalating.

It should also be noted that this is also the reason why "horror flicks" often make good date flicks, amusement parks can be fun with girls who like roller coasters, and why so many girls (and guys ) get laid for the first time when they travel abroad during summer programs abroad.

Excitement is good for a relationship because it gets the heart pumping, which is the same physical effect of sexual excitement.

A friend once told me that on first impression, if the girl didn't seem sexually interested in you and you were interested in her, piss her off a little. Not much, but enough to get the heart going. Why? Because two weeks later she might have forgotten what you said, but she probably won't forget that you said something that stimulated her and her vanity will suggest that it was good and sexually interesting.

Note that this last factor creates a problem in longer lasting relationships.

My advice on that-
(1) A little instability is a good thing- rock the boat a little, every once and awhile, to keep the relationship interesting. Most people want more drama in their lives and don't want to be bored. So stir it up and give her some uncertainty- not much, but enough to keep her interested.

(2) Do exciting things and be spontaneous. Excitement is a good thing and being spontaneous can create a bit of pleasant instability.

(3) Don't take your relationship for granted. Ever. It's when you take things for granted that your relationship begins to slide. The further the slide, the harder it is to keep it on track.

 

[Malky]

I mean look at Malk. It's not his looks certainly.

Woah, woah, woah!

What the fuck?!

 

[welsh]

Just checking to see if you were reading, you ugly spud.

 

[PsychoSniper]

Malk................

And ontopic..............


For the past week, Ive been talking to this girl Ive known, and been buddys with (shes damn hot, too).
Friday we were hanging out when she jsut kisses me out of the blue. Needles to say, makeout oommences. And no she wasnt drunk.
Saturday, we hung out some more, and madeout a lot more. (didnt try to go farther, as she's a "good girl" for real, being freinds with her for a long time, I can confirm that)

Now heres where it gets weird. Sunday, she started acting like she regreted the past 2 days, saying that I 'caught her in a moment of weakness' .

Does anyone understand women ? I certainly fucking dont. The sad thing is she seems to be letting this ruin the freindship we had.