Gripes about the writing

After a certain point, when you're taking on a project of this magnitude, you've got to pick your battles, and you can't pick them all because you just end up trying to be everything and not being anything. Dialogue wasn't a battle we wanted to pick. It is a bit old-school, but it works well for what we're trying to do, and there were other things that were more important for us to spend time and energy on, like trying to incorporate VATS into a real world combat system and still incorporate the stats and not unbalance the game. That's a big undertaking, and spending time from a development standpoint on the actual dialogue and the camera angle it's being presented on - we just don't have unlimited monkeys and typewriters.'
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Do programmers write dialog now? The way he talks it's like you can only have one or the other, but I can't fathom why that would be the case. Writers write. Programmers program. Both can be done at the same time. It doesn't even overlap. Since it takes longer to program than to write dialog, as long as they keep the writing staff on as long as the game is in development then there is no conflict. The only way this makes sense is that they fired the writing staff ASAP so they would have more money to pay the programmers with.

Roflcore said:
Which is very funny, because this means its almost impossible to gain a high level without fighting. so the game is all about fighting. quant maybe lying, or his game (and only his game, because mine surely doesn't) has an insane amount of safes/consoles/places.

seriously quant, get real, stop making thing up.
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Since many of the safes have a computer console to unlock them, usually I unlock the safe for XP then hack the computer for XP. I thought that it was rather retarded, since I was getting XP for literally nothing since the entire point of the computer was to unlock the safe =/
 
Hi.

I suppose I won't be saying much that hasn't already been covered here, still, I'd like to state my point of view.

Fallout was a great story, a wonderful story in which we all participated. It was elaborated further in the sequel, and it was made with love and inspiration.

The writing, which is the very fundament of such a story conveyed in forms such as film or video game, was well done, and of course nicely supplemented by the musicians and artists who worked on these games; everything meshed together in a coherent unit, well thought out, and told in such a manner that we won't forget it.

Of course, that writing wasn't pure brilliance all the way through - it never came anywhere close to the fruits of literary genius civilization has praised, it was not a work of Dostoyevsky nor Flaubert. But it was the writers intention to tell us a story they believed in, to bring us to this universe they've created, to let us partake in it, to taste, breathe, fear, traverse and challenge it, so that we in the end perhaps would understand a little of why they once had happened to fall in love with it.

This intention is sadly not to be found in this sequel which many of us have been waiting for, except perhaps in certain aspects of its graphical artistry, which might well have gone far in doing this great story justice, had it been allowed and seriously attempted.

The reasons for this are numerous, but chiefly, I suspect, of the same root as the fact that one does not these days capitalize off the well elaborated, intelligent and lovingly told epic tales, except perhaps in rare and lucky instances - but almost certainly not in the environment of mass marketed video games. Therefore, if we as a culture seem incapable of reading books anymore, we really hardly could expect our video games to keep supplying us with the great stories of our age, if there are any left to be told.

But certainly, I had been keeping my hopes up.

Now it does seem that I'll be out searching for that water chip once again sometime soon, wandering the wastes of days past. But I'll keep in mind that there are a few of us out there, keeping a great tale close to our hearts, and retelling it to those who will listen. And it does bring a smile to my face.
 
You can read the script of that here:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NhMyron.msg

it's so far and above anything that FO3 offers.

All the checks. The way he will talk differently to you based on your gender, intelligence, science skill, companions, etc.

In F03 we might get an extra line or some extra caps if we pass a skill check. In the previous FOs, the entire conversation was different based on your character.
 
The skill check dialogue options are out of place, like I had [strength] options when speaking to Moira which had nothing to do with strength.

But as for the dialogue itself, it wasn't particularly good or bad. I liked the BoS guys the most since most of them had something interesting to say. Most other wastelanders average too, nothing really stands out.

I haven't felt a need for the dialogue to be longer or shorter, just as long as it's not planescapeish long or two-words short, then it's fine by me. We are in a wasteland filled with uneducated people after all.

Oh and when searching for dad the dialogue was a bit off. I mean you could only ask for dad to certain characters only.
 
ferrety said:
You can read the script of that here:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NhMyron.msg

it's so far and above anything that FO3 offers.

All the checks. The way he will talk differently to you based on your gender, intelligence, science skill, companions, etc.

In F03 we might get an extra line or some extra caps if we pass a skill check. In the previous FOs, the entire conversation was different based on your character.
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wow, now THAT is a piece of proper work. I didnt even know there were so many options. Im affraid we wont see dialogues of such depth in modern games. (damn, I should replay Fo2 as a retard - hilarious lines)
 
Erny said:
wow, now THAT is a piece of proper work. I didnt even know there were so many options. Im affraid we wont see dialogues of such depth in modern games. (damn, I should replay Fo2 as a retard - hilarious lines)
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isn't it, though?

but i don't understand why we can't expect this level of quality. other art/entertainment forms (literature, film, etc) have been invaded by the dumbed-down blockbuster mentality, but masterpieces are still written.

you've even got some of them finding mainstream success -- Cormac McCarthy's The Road is a good example of this. On the film side, Charlie Kaufman is a good example.

i absolutely guarantee there are good writers out there dying to craft games. the problem is that Beth (and other mainstream game publishers) often don't bother trying to hire them.

More to the point, the writer should be the lead on a story based game such as a traditional RPG. The writer designs the quests and dialog. Level designers design the dungeons that house some of the quests. And someone else designs the combat system.

This isn't rocket science.
 
I could only bear to watch that for so long. What point does a video of endless goreshots serve? But yes, that's the target audience.

While watching, I realised FO3 should've been called Postal 3.
 
thefalloutfan said:
The skill check dialogue options are out of place, like I had [strength] options when speaking to Moira which had nothing to do with strength.

But as for the dialogue itself, it wasn't particularly good or bad. I liked the BoS guys the most since most of them had something interesting to say. Most other wastelanders average too, nothing really stands out.

I haven't felt a need for the dialogue to be longer or shorter, just as long as it's not planescapeish long or two-words short, then it's fine by me. We are in a wasteland filled with uneducated people after all.

Oh and when searching for dad the dialogue was a bit off. I mean you could only ask for dad to certain characters only.
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I didn't really find anything wrong with a PS:T dialogue, since it was a dialogue-based game first and foremost. The FO3 dialogue wasn't too short, just too badly written and silly, particularly the skill checks.

I could take the wasteland part, but then why do the supposedly educated and supposedly uneducated people of the wastelands in FO3 have the same retarded type of dialogue?
 
You know, I think we can surely expect somewhat good and elaborate writing for the main story (arguably Bioware does such games)

But not the depth of fallout or planescape -where you got very different experience depending on the way you play or your charachter build. Developer doesnt think its worthy to create things only some players would see - like the huge numbers of dialogue options depending on your stats, sex, reputation etc ( Fo2 dialogue example)

Problem is - Beth failed even the main story.
 
Ausdoerrt said:
thefalloutfan said:
The skill check dialogue options are out of place, like I had [strength] options when speaking to Moira which had nothing to do with strength.

But as for the dialogue itself, it wasn't particularly good or bad. I liked the BoS guys the most since most of them had something interesting to say. Most other wastelanders average too, nothing really stands out.

I haven't felt a need for the dialogue to be longer or shorter, just as long as it's not planescapeish long or two-words short, then it's fine by me. We are in a wasteland filled with uneducated people after all.

Oh and when searching for dad the dialogue was a bit off. I mean you could only ask for dad to certain characters only.
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I didn't really find anything wrong with a PS:T dialogue, since it was a dialogue-based game first and foremost. The FO3 dialogue wasn't too short, just too badly written and silly, particularly the skill checks.

I could take the wasteland part, but then why do the supposedly educated and supposedly uneducated people of the wastelands in FO3 have the same retarded type of dialogue?
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I didn't say Ps:T dialogue was bad, quite the contrary actually! I just wouldn't want that for fallout, it certainly wouldn't fit with the theme. I mean you wouldn't expect these post apocalyptic people speaking like they're all shakespears :P
 
No-one said they had to speak like that. But PS:T dialogue was indepth and well-thought-out, and that's what matters. And what we want.
 
'We' as in you and some others :P

Ps:T's dialogue was very indepth, but I wouldn't want that for fallout. Also, Fallout 1 and 2's dialogue was no where as deep as Ps:T's dialogue, I can't see why you's suddenly want it for fallout 3.
 
We as in the royal we. Because I like to do that.

And the more indepth, varied, and choice-giving the dialogue, the better. Speaking like shakespear has nothing to do with it. An RPG should let the player do what they want to do, and the more options you give at every opportunity, the closer a game comes to that goal.
 
I just thank God and the corporations I finally have the opportunity to play out my fantasy of being a post-apocalyptic bimbo with an Electra complex conversing with the kind of single-celled consumer douche bags I get to grin and bear every day.

It's GREAT they survived the apocalypse.

I'm sure the expansion pack will include the gladiator pit with live action JACKASS.
 
Trithne said:
An RPG should let the player do what they want to do, and the more options you give at every opportunity, the closer a game comes to that goal.
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RPGs are a dying breed anyway, in the sense that as the gaming industry expands, gamers are no longer the targeted market by gaming developers. They are more concerned with drawing in more people than they are with pleasing the consumer base. And the people they are attracting don't want to think. They need everything spelled out right infront of their eyes.
 
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