Gun Control

We didn't exhaust that route, not even close to it.

Also, who's currently holding political power, the left or the conservatives? Do you believe there will be any gun regulation put in place with Trump and the Republicans as the majority?
 
Crni Vuk said:
We didn't exhaust that route, not even close to it.

Also, who's currently holding political power, the left or the conservatives? Do you believe there will be any gun regulation put in place with Trump and the Republicans as the majority?
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At the moment? A bunch of neocons with malleable opinions (depending on how much money there is in said opinion) and Trump, a wild-card wrecking-ball buffoon who already made noises about gun control that made Dianne Feinstein giggle with glee and rub her hands together with delight. You make the mistake of assuming that these politicians have a genuinely principled bone in their bodies. They did not get to where they are by being principled. None of them did.
 
a wild-card wrecking-ball buffoon who already made noises about gun control that made Dianne Feinstein giggle with glee and rub her hands together with delight.
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How would you describe your political affilliation? This is the the kind of thing I would see hard right would say. they have no god but their skin color. They don't care about the ten commandments, they don't care about God.

Ya, European culture with how godless it is is how everyone on Earth should live. Idolter religions like catholicism are great
 
TheHouseAlwaysWins said:
How would you describe your political affilliation? This is the the kind of thing I would see hard right would say. they have no god but their skin color. They don't care about the ten commandments, they don't care about God.
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Moderate-left to strong-left on most social matters with some notable exceptions regarding where they intersect with personal liberty, overall centrist economically, strong libertarian leaning. Minarchist/NWS minarchist, open to new ideas, not confident enough in free market to commit to something like ancap, not fond of full-on communism or socialism but can see some positive aspects. Apatheist, generally not fond of deliberately antagonizing most religious folk but wary of them nevertheless.
 
Pariah Dog said:
At the moment? A bunch of neocons with malleable opinions (depending on how much money there is in said opinion) and Trump, a wild-card wrecking-ball buffoon who already made noises about gun control that made Dianne Feinstein giggle with glee and rub her hands together with delight. You make the mistake of assuming that these politicians have a genuinely principled bone in their bodies. They did not get to where they are by being principled. None of them did.
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Even with all of that, I see no chance for changes comign from them the gun lobby is way to strong for the moment to allow it. You could as well try to bann the stars and stripes, apple pie or liberty as this is what a lot of people associate with guns right now. I am confident that things will change however, once more and more people actually rally up and get in serious debates and discussions. But it might take decades. I have to give the NRA, their groups, and the lobby that, they do an excelent job in defending their arguments and targets. The pharma industry throws like 10 times as much money in to politics and could only dream about achieving the same.
 
Crni Vuk said:
I am an atheist though, and I see a huge issue with how religion is used today.
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Like I've said before, the masses will have their opiates, and as long as they aren't jabbing me with the needle somehow I simply can't be arsed to care. It's not a fight worth having with them. Have you ever argued with a die-hard theist? It's like mud-wrestling a pig - you get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
 
Yeah, but I feel that my values are kinda under attack. For example I live in Bavaria and the Prime Minister of our state recently decided and pronounced that crosses should be present in government institutions despite the fact that it's unconstitutional, the reasoning was "To represent the christian tradition" or something like that. Which is also a strange coinsidence when you consider that there are ellections in october.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Yeah, but I feel that my values are kinda under attack. For example I live in Bavaria and the Prime Minister of our state recently decided and pronounced that crosses should be present in government institutions despite the fact that it's unconstitutional, the reasoning was "To represent the christian tradition" or something like that. Which is also a strange coinsidence when you consider that there are ellections in october.
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What are the chances that he's blowing smoke to look good for the religious types? If German politicians are anything like American ones that's almost certainly what he's doing - he knows he won't get crosses in government institutions but he'll look good and gain social capital with religious people for "fighting the good fight", all of this at basically zero cost to him.
 
Pariah Dog said:
Moderate-left to strong-left on most social matters with some notable exceptions regarding where they intersect with personal liberty, overall centrist economically, strong libertarian leaning. Minarchist/NWS minarchist, open to new ideas, not confident enough in free market to commit to something like ancap, not fond of full-on communism or socialism but can see some positive aspects. Apatheist, generally not fond of deliberately antagonizing most religious folk but wary of them nevertheless.
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Here we go. My kind of guy.
 
Pariah Dog said:
What are the chances that he's blowing smoke to look good for the religious types? If German politicians are anything like American ones that's almost certainly what he's doing - he knows he won't get crosses in government institutions but he'll look good and gain social capital with religious people for "fighting the good fight", all of this at basically zero cost to him.
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That doesn't make it better, the crosses are already in many government institutions. For example I am working right now at a school and every classroom has a cross in it - which is funny since our school has a very high percentage of muslims. For me religion is indoctrination and the political missuse of it is dangerous, regardless which religion we're talking about. Seriously, there is a reason why almost every constitution has religous liberty as a part of it and why the separation of government and religion is such an important part of any modern state.
 
Crni Vuk said:
That doesn't make it better, the crosses are already in many government institutions. For example I am working right now at a school and every classroom has a cross in it - which is funny since our school has a very high percentage of muslims. For me religion is indoctrination and the political missuse of it is dangerous, regardless which religion we're talking about.
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It can be. Have laws been altered recently to come in line with religious dogma at all, or have there been proposed changes to the law books along that line? That's what would set off alarm bells for me. People are going to believe whatever, really, but as long as they aren't dictating law I wouldn't be too concerned. Keep in mind one of the diciest things you can try to do with an indoctrinated person is convince them how wrong they are. You stand a good chance of triggering the backfire effect and making them believe things even HARDER than before. This happens a lot with political stuff as well.

I mean, honestly, if all they're doing is putting crosses everywhere, it really doesn't strike me as being that big of a deal. I mean, hell, a good chunk of the Ten Commandments coincide strongly with generic civilized ethical/moral stances anyway (don't steal, don't kill, don't lie, don't be an adulterer, afford some respect to your elders).

There have been other, ingenious solutions to this, btw - if one religion has representation in a government facility, then they all have to have it if they want it. This led to the hilarious Satan statue kerfuffle in... what was it, Oklahoma?
 
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Pariah Dog said:
It can be. Have laws been altered recently to come in line with religious dogma at all, or have there been proposed changes to the law books along that line? That's what would set off alarm bells for me. People are going to believe whatever, really, but as long as they aren't dictating law I wouldn't be too concerned. Keep in mind one of the diciest things you can try to do with an indoctrinated person is convince them how wrong they are. You stand a good chance of triggering the backfire effect and making them believe things even HARDER than before. This happens a lot with political stuff as well.

I mean, honestly, if all they're doing is putting crosses everywhere, it really doesn't strike me as being that big of a deal. I mean, hell, a good chunk of the Ten Commandments coincide strongly with generic civilized ethical/moral stances anyway (don't steal, don't kill, don't lie, don't be an adulterer, afford some respect to your elders).

There have been other, ingenious solutions to this, btw - if one religion has representation in a government facility, then they all have to have it if they want it. This led to the hilarious Satan statue kerfuffle in... what was it, Oklahoma?
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Yep. They changed our laws because of it.

https://kfor.com/2018/04/27/oklahoma-senate-passes-bill-to-display-ten-commandments/
 
Pariah Dog said:
It can be. Have laws been altered recently to come in line with religious dogma at all, or have there been proposed changes to the law books along that line? That's what would set off alarm bells for me. People are going to believe whatever, really, but as long as they aren't dictating law I wouldn't be too concerned. Keep in mind one of the diciest things you can try to do with an indoctrinated person is convince them how wrong they are. You stand a good chance of triggering the backfire effect and making them believe things even HARDER than before. This happens a lot with political stuff as well.

I mean, honestly, if all they're doing is putting crosses everywhere, it really doesn't strike me as being that big of a deal. I mean, hell, a good chunk of the Ten Commandments coincide strongly with generic civilized ethical/moral stances anyway (don't steal, don't kill, don't lie, don't be an adulterer, afford some respect to your elders).

There have been other, ingenious solutions to this, btw - if one religion has representation in a government facility, then they all have to have it if they want it. This led to the hilarious Satan statue kerfuffle in... what was it, Oklahoma?
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I really don't want to turn this in to a religious debate, god knows (no phun intended) that it's as much of a minefield like talking about gun-laws.

However just to say this, I do reject the idea that religious belief, the christian one in particular, actually is at the core of our moral and ethical values as far as the government goes or that tenets like the commandments actually offer us a lot here. I mean outside of don't steel and don't kill, there is really hardly anything of value in it for a modern state, and to adobt those two as laws are kinda logical anyway for a society, since a lot of civilisations adobted those without knowing about the commandments, Asian, African and South American societies are sadly often overlooked by our cultures or anything that actually pre-dates christianity and judaism in particular like we take a look at the gauls who had a rather sophicsticated society for their time.

I mean just if we look at it historically, it doesn't add up. A large part of the 17th century was about pushing back back religious doctrines and christian values in particular, the enlightenment and the whole movement of humanism and rationality, the idea that everything should be subject to criticism and so on. Constitutions with religious freedom came from the experience of persecution, mostly one christian group by another, like protestants by catholics. We're not enjoying liberal and free democracies today because of religious and christian values, but despite of it.

Seriously, if you have the time watch this guy on youtube:

 
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Crni Vuk said:
You guys are confusing Gun Controll with Fun Controll. No one will ever take your precious toys away. No. One.

A guy shoot once a couple of toddlers and kidz in a kindergarden with his rifle. Nothing big happend. Another one shoot more than 50 random people. Nothing big happend. If that isn't enough to force changes, than nothing is.

So there is really no reason to be paranoid guys.
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You've been shitposting in the this thread unironically since page one and are surprised it has come to this. You literally equated support of gun ownership to support of slavery at one point.
Pariah Dog said:
The aut-right is cringy as fuck but they do understand very well the power memes possess as tools of mockery and drive-by commentary, and they understand that people gobble that shit up.
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Not to mention the left can't meme worth shit.
 
Pariah Dog said:
Trump, a wild-card wrecking-ball buffoon who already made noises about gun control that made Dianne Feinstein giggle with glee and rub her hands together with delight.
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Hey, remember that time Trump said "VIDEO GAMES CAUSE VIOLENCE!" and the left suddenly did a complete 180 so they didn't get seen agreeing with Trump, until Trump laughed and said "Just kidding"?

Hey, remember that time Trump said "I'M COMING FO YA GUNS, MWAHAHAHA!" and all the liberal news media outlets suddenly admitted there's a war against legal gun owners and started warning people of the dangers of gun-grabbing?

Remember how everyone with an IQ above room temperature saw what Trump was doing, these two times, and how everyone using confirmation bias to search for reasons to hate Trump as much as the magical TV says to just bought it blindly?
 
SilverStarApple/Epsilon7 said:
Hey, remember that time Trump said "VIDEO GAMES CAUSE VIOLENCE!" and the left suddenly did a complete 180 so they didn't get seen agreeing with Trump, until Trump laughed and said "Just kidding"?
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I don't think it was left wing people who were pushing the whole "Video Games cause violence" thing.

From experience, it tends to be ageing boomers who are pushing that whole thing.

Plus "The left" is not a monolith, and even if some of them did believe video games cause violence, most of them probably don't, so to say "Did a complete 180" when it's likely the same people who always disagreed with that statement continuing to do so is kinda silly.
 
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