Gun Control

[valcik]

Given that I was the one of those who most vehemently opposed Sander and his banhammery approach and methods, and openly criticized him on multiple occasions, your post here makes zero sense.

Disclaimer: Only the second sentence in my previous post was adressed directly to you, since I had assumed you don't identify yourself as a "cohort". I sincerely apologize for wrongly assuming your gender!

 

[Atomkilla]

Disclaimer: Only the second sentence in my previous post was adressed directly to you, since I had assumed you don't identify yourself as a "cohort". I sincerely apologize for wrongly assuming your gender!

Damn, that was funny.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Oh, Arnust ignored me, whatever will I do. *snort*

Anyway, I rather liked that little thought exercise. I still am not wholly convinced that we shouldn't declare open season on assholes, but I think too few people actually have the stones to follow through with the necessary steps in order to make it work.

You'll notice that in that particular fiction the problem always was that the "decent" folks just bunkered down instead of being proactive about asshole removal the moment it became completely legal to do so. I am convinced that the genuine assholes are and always have been outnumbered and the only thing really saving their asses has always been the fact that people are more prone to hiding from their problems than addressing them. All that's required for evil to win is for good men to do nothing, after all.

 

[Hassknecht]

Problem is that once you go down the path of asshole removal, where do you stop?
Murder, arson, jaywalking?

 

[Atomkilla]

Anyway, I rather liked that little thought exercise. I still am not wholly convinced that we shouldn't declare open season on assholes, but I think too few people actually have the stones to follow through with the necessary steps in order to make it work.

It's not about having the stones to follow through, it's about basic nature of human beings. You seem to have a rather black and white take on this issue.

I myself am quite confused as to how you would make a distinction between assholes and non-assholes. Rather arbitrary. And pointless. Everyone can become an asshole. In such a scenario, everyone will.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Problem is that once you go down the path of asshole removal, where do you stop?
Murder, arson, jaywalking?

Murder and arson are slam dunks, I'm surprised you included them as if they shouldn't be criteria for removal. Jaywalking is a made-up victimless "crime" that was conceived of almost purely to help make as many people as possible into "criminals" (makes the impeachment of the last sitting President in the Fallout universe for jaywalking rather apropos to its intended use).

It's not about having the stones to follow through, it's about basic nature of human beings. You seem to have a rather black and white take on this issue.

I myself am quite confused as to how you would make a distinction between assholes and non-assholes. Rather arbitrary. And pointless. Everyone can become an asshole. In such a scenario, everyone will.

Black and white? Well, I mean, you're either an asshole who does asshole things or you aren't. You seem to be under the impression that people being assholes is the rule rather than the exception and I have a view that is the inverse. Distinction is based on actions. If you do asshole things and don't stop when it becomes IMMEDIATELY APPARENT that doing so is having a decidedly negative impact upon others around you and may even be jeopardizing your OWN life, chances are you're an incurable asshole and you won't be missed.

 

[Hassknecht]

Murder and arson are slam dunks, I'm surprised you included them as if they shouldn't be criteria for removal. Jaywalking is a made-up victimless "crime" that was conceived of almost purely to help make as many people as possible into "criminals" (makes the impeachment of the last sitting President in the Fallout universe for jaywalking rather apropos to its intended use).

Murder, arson, jaywalking is a trope. The point is that obviously, arson and murder are considered dick moves in bird culture, but where do you draw the line? Insurance fraud? Hit a parking car and didn't leave at least a note? Steal parking spot?

Black and white? Well, I mean, you're either an asshole who does asshole things or you aren't. You seem to be under the impression that people being assholes is the rule rather than the exception and I have a view that is the inverse. Distinction is based on actions. If you do asshole things and don't stop when it becomes IMMEDIATELY APPARENT that doing so is having a decidedly negative impact upon others around you and may even be jeopardizing your OWN life, chances are you're an incurable asshole and you won't be missed.

But who decides who is an asshole, and who decides what behaviour is assholey enough to be shot over it?

 

[TheGM]

Today's asshole aren't shit. you should've seen the 70s and 80s brand of Psychopathic Assholes.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Murder, arson, jaywalking is a trope. The point is that obviously, arson and murder are considered dick moves in bird culture, but where do you draw the line? Insurance fraud? Hit a parking car and didn't leave at least a note? Steal parking spot?

Insurance fraud? Fuck, I actually don't see why that shouldn't get you instant asshole status. The sheer fucking pain in the ass it is to deal with insurance fraudsters practically fucking MANDATES they be dealt with harshly. Don't want to get holed? Don't fucking commit insurance fraud.

Hit a parked car and didn't leave a note? If you do this you're a piece of shit and you'll probably go on to do other shitty things. Fuckin' takes a few minutes tops to leave a note with insurance info and establish that it was an honest mistake. If you don't do that much, you're probably a fucking asshole.

Steal parking spot? If it's marked as not being yours for whatever reason and you take it, that's a dick move, but move when you're told to fucking move and we'll call it a momentary slip. Act like that dumb motherfucker from Florida did, and you deserve your capping.

But who decides who is an asshole, and who decides what behaviour is assholey enough to be shot over it?

Everyone. That's the beauty of it. One of two things are going to happen - either everyone ends up shooting each other and we're finally rid of all the assholes (since Atomkilla seems to think we're all pretty much predisposed to it) or people start avoiding being assholes and start developing proper nonviolent conflict resolution skills as a matter of goddamn survival.

 

[Risewild]

Black and white? Well, I mean, you're either an asshole who does asshole things or you aren't. You seem to be under the impression that people being assholes is the rule rather than the exception and I have a view that is the inverse. Distinction is based on actions. If you do asshole things and don't stop when it becomes IMMEDIATELY APPARENT that doing so is having a decidedly negative impact upon others around you and may even be jeopardizing your OWN life, chances are you're an incurable asshole and you won't be missed.

To be fair, your opinion of "gunning down the assholes" is a pretty "assholish" thing. Be careful, most assholes do not consider themselves assholes, but others might. You don't want to get caught in that world by someone who decides you're also a asshole.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

To be fair, your opinion of "gunning down the assholes" is a pretty "assholish" thing. Be careful, most assholes do not consider themselves assholes, but others might. You don't want to get caught in that world by someone who decides you're also a asshole.

Well, I mean, if thousands of fucking people decide that I'm an asshole, what are the chances that every single one of them is wrong? Are you saying democracy might not be all it's cracked up to be?

 

[Hassknecht]

Yeah, Pariah Dog is the first up against the wall.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Yeah, Pariah Dog is the first up against the wall.

Yeah, you mad.

I take the piss for the last couple pages or so and the best fucking rebuttals I receive are damning indictments of the very concept of democracy or slippery-slope shit. I'm fucking laughing here, my dude.

 

[Risewild]

Well, I mean, if thousands of fucking people decide that I'm an asshole, what are the chances that every single one of them is wrong? Are you saying democracy might not be all it's cracked up to be?

No, I'm saying that gunning down assholes has the danger of anyone being an asshole in the eyes of someone else.

That old lady that gives some money to homeless people? Well in some people's eyes, she is just making society worst by rewarding a lazy bum that doesn't work and has no motivation to improve their own life, because they get free money. Gun down the old lady because she is an asshole, but then, someone sees that person who shot the old lady, and considers them a asshole for shooting an old lady, so they shoot the shooter, then the friends and family of the guy that was shot will see the shooter as an asshole and go to shoot them...

Everyone is an asshole in someone else's eyes.

Not to mention that without the "shoot assholes" society. In the middle of the night, in a quiet street, a thief might point a knife or gun at you, demand your wallet, phone and jewelry, you obey and he runs away with your stuff. You lost your stuff.
Now in a society where people shoot assholes, that thief will just be out of sight, shoot you without you even seeing him, and then steal your stuff. You're dead. Because a thief will still be a thief, and it will not risk it anymore, it will hide, ambush and then shoot to kill to get the loot.

 

[TorontoReign]

Being an asshole is a natural survival trait.

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Being an asshole is a natural survival trait.

In the fucking wild, maybe, but not in fucking civilized society. We may be animals, but we're also necessarily something a bit more than that. Higher brain function AND eusociality? Using naturalism to justify being an asshole basically ignores the fact that we are very nearly a force apart from nature itself.

Wait, are you actually going to argue that assholes AREN'T a corrosive force on society? Because that would be hysterical levels of troll-fu.

No, I'm saying that gunning down assholes has the danger of anyone being an asshole in the eyes of someone else.

That old lady that gives some money to homeless people? Well in some people's eyes, she is just making society worst by rewarding a lazy bum that doesn't work and has no motivation to improve their own life, because they get free money. Gun down the old lady because she is an asshole, but then, someone sees that person who shot the old lady, and considers them a asshole for shooting an old lady, so they shoot the shooter, then the friends and family of the guy that was shot will see the shooter as an asshole and go to shoot them...

Everyone is an asshole in someone else's eyes.

Not to mention that without the "shoot assholes" society. In the middle of the night, in a quiet street, a thief might point a knife or gun at you, demand your wallet, phone and jewelry, you obey and he runs away with your stuff. You lost your stuff.
Now in a society where people shoot assholes, that thief will just be out of sight, shoot you without you even seeing him, and then steal your stuff. You're dead. Because a thief will still be a thief, and it will not risk it anymore, it will hide, ambush and then shoot to kill to get the loot.

Best argument so far and it's wishy-washy "well being an asshole is all subjective" and proposing outright surrender at times to assholes. Do you support assholes, Risewild?

 

[Crni Vuk]

We might also all just end up in space ...

 

[TheGM]

Not to mention that without the "shoot assholes" society. In the middle of the night, in a quiet street, a thief might point a knife or gun at you, demand your wallet, phone and jewelry, you obey and he runs away with your stuff. You lost your stuff.
Now in a society where people shoot assholes, that thief will just be out of sight, shoot you without you even seeing him, and then steal your stuff. You're dead. Because a thief will still be a thief, and it will not risk it anymore, it will hide, ambush and then shoot to kill to get the loot.

No, the thief will move on to burglary since thieves look for the lowest confrontation. Happened in Chicago when they got concealed carry and muggers started getting shot. Robberies went down because they moved to stealing from the rail yards.

 

[Crni Vuk]

In the fucking wild, maybe, but not in fucking civilized society. We may be animals, but we're also necessarily something a bit more than that. Higher brain function AND eusociality? Using naturalism to justify being an asshole basically ignores the fact that we are very nearly a force apart from nature itself.

Didn't you say that only assholes can keep assholes in check? So we need the assholes. But if we need assholes then we can't have them shoot. But if assholes are the shooters and other assholes shoot the assholes ... I am confused ...

 

[Cliffy McEdgeface]

Didn't you say that only assholes can keep assholes in check? So we need the assholes. But if we need assholes then we can't have them shoot. But if assholes are the shooters and other assholes shoot the assholes ... I am confused ...

Now you're getting it!

And no, I didn't say ONLY assholes can keep assholes in check. I said they're actually really good at it because assholes tend to lean towards competition over cooperation, and even when they do cooperate it's usually short-lived as someone eventually puts a knife in another's back (figuratively or literally). This is assuming you have been taking the past few pages COMPLETELY SERIOUSLY, which is probably a huge fucking mistake. I mean, it's not like I dropped hints that I might be pissing about or anything.