Gun Control

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I-i don't even...just.
Maybe I didn't make my self clear.

Porn and booze does NOT make violent rapists, so banning it would be of no use. But knowing this, would you still give hardcore porn and alcohol to your child? No, of course not. Just because something is OK for adults, doesn't mean it's suddenly good for children.

I hope that makes it clear what I mean.
 
For an "aspiring child educator" you are a miserable communicator and I really don't think it's just the language barrier

That's actually a pretty bad fucking sign because with children you need to be very clear, concise and fucking unambiguous.
 
Gonzo

So that kid had NOBODY in his life, not one single soul to teach him right from wrong?

Asking society to make sweeping changes all because a few deranged folks is counter-productive.

I can't play violent games because some crazy dude might get the wrong idea.

I can't watch The Expendables because some deranged kid doesn't have anyone to teach him.

That is just asinine.

And in regards to education, GREAT point.

This is what our euro brethren do not understand. Smaller population = SMALLER class sizes. This usually equates to better education. There is a huge difference between nordic countries and the U.S., in regards to population.

No you got me wrong on the aspect of not doing things. We need to educate the parents not to let there kids watch or listen to those things. Parents should not be dragging there kids to these things. I am not about forcing people to do something, although I would be willing to hold them responsible if there inaction proved to be negligent. The changes, well those come with time and education and can't be forced down peoples throats (identity politics needs to learn this point).

So you as an adult should be completely allowed to play a violent video game, watch a bad action movie, or listen to what ever the hell you want. But if you let your kids, and they start carrying a gun for respect, or because its cool, or because it makes them feel "like a man" (how holding a giant penis shaped things make you feel like a man I will ever know) you as a parent should be held responsible until they are an adult.

For an "aspiring child educator" you are a miserable communicator and I really don't think it's just the language barrier

That's actually a pretty bad fucking sign because with children you need to be very clear, concise and fucking unambiguous.

Hmmm I seem to have had no problem understanding him. Maybe it says more about you.....
 
Well Crni, in some ways I agree and some I don't. I am unsure how exactly the education system works in your part of the world or class sizes and such, but I see one of the problems with the education system as being overcrowding of schools. With each teacher having less individual time for students it does not help. Also at some level I disagree about the teaching method as I think the method of teaching you are portraying while helping kids "deal" with school you are effectively kicking the can down the road. Without testing and a basis of minimum education we would leave these kids as underperforming adults who do not have the tools to deal with the world out of school. Learning to succeed is just as important as learning to lose. Our enabling of every child to be a winner will not teach them to be a good loser when there boss is yelling at them for fucking something up, and could lead to an even more entitled generation. We have to give people not only the tools to succeed but the tools to learn from there failure and find success. This is part of the safety net of schools, participation awards, incomplete instead of failure, and the general death of masculinity in schools. Oh that child is hyper and keeps staring outside, lets dope him up so he pays attention. Meanwhile he just wants to play soccer, and the teacher in reality has no time to find a way to make the lesson engaging for him.
I think you're missunderstanding my intentions. I am not saying we have to make everyone into a winner. Far from it. I agree with everything you say, giving out trophies for free is the worst you could do in education.

In my 'utopian' school, this learning process in dealing with failures, would come naturally, as you would give students projects, where they could of course 'fail', to experience mistakes is a huge factor in the learning process. The big difference is that you wouldn't have someone standing in the background giving them grades based on how well and quick they can memorize informations - of which we today know is a really bad way of teaching something. What I am actually asking, is that schools approach subjects, like we do it already with our so called 'hobbys'. If you love playing the guitarr, then you don't need someone standing next to you waving around grades and achievements. You wiill try to improve it, because you want it. And that's a lot more effective when it comes to efficient learning.

I know there are difference between the school systems in Germany and the US, but the basics, the principles coming from psychology and early child hood education, are the same. They literaly are. Regardless of culture, herritage or education system. A child has a natural urge to experience and learn about the world around it and the basic needs are the same for all children, we have to, or we wouldn't be able to learn the necessary skills to survive. Neurological and psychological studies by scientists like Gerald Hüther and Martin Spitzer, both Germans, show that learning can only happen if people are actually excited about the subject they are learning. You can't teach someone physics who's absolutely disinterested in physics, much less if they have to do it under preasure. What you have to do, is to find the subject the students are interested in and their capabilitys and give them a chance to join projects where they can 1. Learn the necessary skills to be succesfull and 2. An actual meaningfull way to apply them.

For example, a school could be build as an open platform where students get a chance to experience every subject, from math, to english classes or history at their own pace, the classes would offer now projects those students could attend. For example, there could be a project where students learn for a mathematical competition, other projects could even include scientific research, it could be even interdisciplinary. The teacher would be only a host, a supporter where the students could come to ask for help, if they believe they need it. In other words, I want a more 'scientific' approach, where students actually try to figure things out on their own, just like a resarcher - you would be surprised how much of that sentient can be found in toddlers and there is a famous quote of Einstein where he was asked how he came up with his theories and he said someting that he approached the topic like a child, what would happen if I rode on a ray of light?

This idea that we need to teach people in dealing with 'failure' is an outdated view when it comes to education. We're learning those skills already from the day we're born, the moment you take your first step, trying to learn walking. People often express the fear, that no one would learn anything, or missing on necessary skills. My experience however tells me, that children already do learn very well on their own, like writing, counting etc. That's what we do with the toddlers in my day care center. We read with them, we count with them, we give them oportunities to learn on their own and it works perfectly they come to me with a book and they soak informtions in like a sponge, and the best part is, it works completely without pressure or grades.

What I find interesting is how you can do studies on the subject where children actually enjoy learning, up to the point where they join pre-school/elemtary school and the joy of leaning suddenly takes a sharp drop. I always asked my self why. But now as I am actually working with children, I do not ask anymore, I know it.

Without testing and a basis of minimum education we would leave these kids as underperforming adults who do not have the tools to deal with the world out of school. Learning to succeed is just as important as learning to lose.
I hate to say it like this, but our schools already do a great job in creating those kind of adults. It always did. It's just becoming more and more of an issue, since we're not anymore industrial societies with menial manufacturing jobs where a large part of the public can spend most of their life in.

If we take in the possible effects of automatition and digitalisation, even the menial jobs that are still left might dissapear one day, leaving only jobs that require very creative and highly intelligent people. Not the kind of people that usually go trough the typical school system to say it that way.


It all goes back to the left's obsession with equality of outcome. They would rather every single living being be equally fucking miserable/disenfranchised/dead than some be happy and others not, regardless of how they got there
YES!1 That's E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what I want when I am talking about a more flexible education system that allows everone to learn on their OWN pace.

Did it ever crossed your mind, that you also have a lot of geniuses in school, who drop out because they are so bored by the subjects and speed so they never achieve anything (the so called unver achiever) because everyone is only looking at the fucking grades? There is a big problem, if not only 'bad' students but also exceptionally 'good' students fail the school system! That's a lot of wasted potential.

What we achieve with our current education system, is a normalisation and standardisation where everyone has to be equal when it comes to the knowledge. But I never understood why all people have to learn and memorize at the same pace, even inside the classroom. Some people are obviously faster in picking up certain skills while others are slower. What's wrong in keeping that in mind, and actually allowing for more flexibility here. I've seen 10-11 year old kidz, that could actually understand the prinicples of quantum physics, while others still had to figure out the basics of math and now you're telling me they all have to learn at the same pace and the same subjects. Isn't that quite socialist by the way? One size/approach for everyone?

We have to finally find a way to tread every child as an individual with individual preferences and characteristics. In other words, slow learners need more support, while others need more challanges in the areas where they excell. How comes that we're more concered about the numbers of different coffee flavours in some shitty Barista or Star Bucks with a personal name on our cups, but as soon someone suggests a more personalized education it's the worst thing ever ... I always thought individualism was a big thing with libertarians.
 
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Ah discovery education, we tried this here in Alberta, Canada for a good number of years, and while the theory sounds good where students figure out the skills with a teacher there to guide them. The program failed miserable with only those who would excel anyways exceling and those who would not excel failing even worse. I could see this working in certain settings when you have a driven group of individuals that care about the core subject, but unfortunately we ended up with 10 year old's who could not do any multiplication. Its like communism, in theory it sounds like the best thing ever, but once you mix actual humans into the mix it all fell apart.
 
YES!1 That's E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what I want when I am talking about a more flexible education system that allows everone to learn on their OWN pace.

Has little to do with your personal take on education and more to do with the current education zeitgeist (as well as every other thing the left touches).

Did it ever crossed your mind, that you also have a lot of geniuses in school, who drop out because they are so bored by the subjects and speed so they never achieve anything (the so called unver achiever) because everyone is only looking at the fucking grades? There is a big problem, if not only 'bad' students but also exceptionally 'good' students fail the school system! That's a lot of wasted potential.

What we achieve with our current education system, is a normalisation and standardisation where everyone has to be equal when it comes to the knowledge. But I never understood why all people have to learn and memorize at the same pace, even inside the classroom. Some people are obviously faster in picking up certain skills while others are slower. What's wrong in keeping that in mind, and actually allowing for more flexibility here. I've seen 10-11 year old kidz, that could actually understand the prinicples of quantum physics, while others still had to figure out the basics of math and now you're telling me they all have to learn at the same pace and the same subjects. Isn't that quite socialist by the way? One size/approach for everyone?

It's very funny to me how you think I somehow SUPPORT what the left has engineered in education, as I actively decry the left for doing it. But continue.

We have to finally find a way to tread every child as an individual with individual preferences and characteristics. In other words, slow learners need more support, while others need more challanges in the areas where they excell. How comes that we're more concered about the numbers of different coffee flavours in some shitty Barista or Star Bucks with a personal name on our cups, but as soon someone suggests a more personalized education it's the worst thing ever ... I always thought individualism was a big thing with libertarians.

The problem is that not a single one of you assholes actually ever cares about the child as an individual and you've done nothing but prove that for decades now.
 
Well unfortunately it may mean undoing some of the things we have been teaching boys over the last 30 years or more. This is not a short term thing and has been sliding down more as time goes on. I think we need to give up some of that childhood safety in schools, or while playing. When boys act like boys now we mostly punish them, and I am not talking about sexual things. We as men are inherently dangerous, we are attracted to dangerous things, and we need to encourage that. When we look at the shootings in the western world they are unfortunately a mostly urban problem, mostly. We need to encourage the healthy outlets of our dangerous nature with sports and activities. We need parental involvement in kids lives, both parents. It is nor surprise to me that with the rising tide of single mothers you seem to have a correlation with crime rates rising 15-20 years later. You have had a large percentage of the population grow up without a male role model, or one who didn't have one themselves.

We need to stop listening/watching things that push the wrong message as well, and this is where my message will find the hate, movies, video games, music. While none of those things will necessarily present the wrong message, at the wrong age or without context some will. 10 year old kids should not be playing GTA or Fallout. I saw a study once and first person shooters meant for adults(HALO, Gears) were mostly played by kids, meanwhile games like splaatoon were played by adults but meant for kids. How many of you have gone to see a Marvel movie and noticed kids everywhere, meanwhile people are getting shot and blown up (I saw a 6 year old at Deadpool). And then Rap (most prevalent/popular for this) music, which has a large portion of it glorifying treating women like shit, and shooting others to protect yourself. How many rappers die to gun violence every year? How can we as a society and culture keep allowing our kids to see things they should not? At what point should we punish the parent/s for how they decided to raise there child?

We have to change our culture on some level. We are all about accepting different cultures and people, but some cultures should not have been allowed to progress, and we should have been more accepting of some that we have kicked to the side.

You seem to think that computer games, rap music, etc. are the evils behind gun violence. That's like the point that US republican Christians, the so called evangelicals are making. Are you an evangelical?

There are 'wholesome' yanks who don't play computer games or listen to rap music who go on shooting sprees, and that's the thing. The shooters are usually men but that's about the only thing they have in common.

For an "aspiring child educator" you are a miserable communicator and I really don't think it's just the language barrier

That's actually a pretty bad fucking sign because with children you need to be very clear, concise and fucking unambiguous.

Bee careeefulll. Crni is still looking for payback because of the whole Kosovo-thing etc. You don't want to anger a Serb bro.
 
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You seem to think that computer games, rap music, etc. are the evils behind gun violence. That's like the point that US republican Christians, the so called evangelicals are making. Are you an evangelical?

There are 'wholesome' yanks who don't play computer games or listen to rap music who go on shooting sprees, and that's the thing. The shooters are usually men but that's about the only thing they have in common.
Boy you really are dense aren't you, how did Crni put it, watching porn does not turn you into a sex addict, but you still would not let your kid watch it, is pretty close enough. People can become desensitized to things, that may be why the American military has used video games as recruitment and training aids. So yes letting your kid watch violent things, and be around violence all the time would be a cause of them being a violent person. Learned Behaviors, gain some education and come back when you have something besides completely useless shit to add to anything ass hat (speaking of learnt behaviors....).
 
Seriously, how much 'experience' does anyone of you have with educating children? - A small hint, it's not the same like raising children. Without the intention to attack anyone, but there is a hell of a lot of ignorance and inexperience here when it comes to early child hood education and behaviour here. And Gonzo is absolutely right when he talks about behaviour and what it can do to children, particularly at an young age if you constantly expose them to viollence and agitation. There is also a lot of research on the subject. Just look at what happens when you give a child in elementary school a smart phone with internet access.

Ah discovery education, we tried this here in Alberta, Canada for a good number of years, and while the theory sounds good where students figure out the skills with a teacher there to guide them. The program failed miserable with only those who would excel anyways exceling and those who would not excel failing even worse. I could see this working in certain settings when you have a driven group of individuals that care about the core subject, but unfortunately we ended up with 10 year old's who could not do any multiplication. Its like communism, in theory it sounds like the best thing ever, but once you mix actual humans into the mix it all fell apart.
My approach would be similar to Montessori, but I am aware that my 'utopian' school system would require a lot more money, a lot more personal and a lot more fostering and a different society. But who knows? We might be on the way to it as I fully expect more than half of the population to become jobless, once automatition, digitalisation and AI kicks in.

Regardless what kind of education we support though, one thing is for sure, the kind of education we have today, will definetly change very heavily in the next decades.

The problem is that not a single one of you assholes actually ever cares about the child as an individual and you've done nothing but prove that for decades now.

Who do you mean with 'you' assholes? What have I done in particular? Are you dense or something. I am FOR(!) individual preferences and education. And this is the approach we follow with early child hood education/pedagogics, at least here in Bavaria - one of the most conservative parts of Germany by the way! It's like a small Texas, but with beer that you can actually drink. We are constantly taught, that we have to keep the needs and damands of the child in mind, with EVERYTHING we do and perform - catchprase participation.
 
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Exactly, the guns in circulation in the US come from factories and stores. But that's the thing, they are in circulation now. If you want to get rid of them you'd need to establish absolutely totalitarian measures, and criminalize a huge part of the populace. Which would rather likely turn into the legal guns being used in their original intention, defending citizens from a tyrannical government
US Goverment seems to be completely okay with doing this when it’s with drugs, with broad support from the populace. And guns and drugs have a lot more parallels, needless be said.
 
US Goverment seems to be completely okay with doing this when it’s with drugs, with broad support from the populace. And guns and drugs have a lot more parallels, needless be said.

And yet they seem to get treated as polar opposites. Got an opiate problem, well we better make a place for people to safely shoot up, got a gun problem chase after legal owners who have done nothing wrong. Also people are calling for more freedom around drug use, us Canadians just legalized weed (good times truly), and yet are looking at a handgun/semi ban. Half of US states seem to have legalized as well, but most of those are banning guns. Freedom for weed and guns seems to be in Alaska.
 
Now they're sending bombs to political enemies in USA. Hey, maybe it makes perfect sense for a Canadian guy to be in favor of USA being highly saturated with guns with lax gun laws. Maybe GonZo is a true hater of the USA and wants to see 'Civil War Part Deux' over there, eh?
 
Now they're sending bombs to political enemies in USA. Hey, maybe it makes perfect sense for a Canadian guy to be in favor of USA being highly saturated with guns with lax gun laws. Maybe GonZo is a true hater of the USA and wants to see 'Civil War Part Deux' over there, eh?

How did the FBI put it, don't make assumptions until any facts are known (I know hard to do these days). Also both sides seem to have there crazies that think stuff like that would actually gain them anything. You know shooting republicans at baseball games, country music concerts and such.

 
Arnus said:
tUS Goverment seems to be completely okay with doing this when it’s with drugs, with broad support from the populace. And guns and drugs have a lot more parallels, needless be said

Are you seriously trying to compare the two? Come on Arnust, I expected better of you.

Mass shootings are still considered a rare occurrence.

Drugs in Europe are illegal and STILL, you folks have a problem. From what all you euros have been saying, you don't have the same problems with guns.

One can own a gun and still be a functional human being. An addict on the other hand is often unable to function.

While guns serve a purpose (stop gap to a tyrannical government, personal protection, etc.), drugs (especially hard drugs), do not. A day on the range is a MASSIVE difference compared to someone spending the whole day shooting up heroin.

Guns are still prohibitively expensive. Crack, Heroin, etc, are extremely cheap.

Guns are harder to manufacture (minus 3-D guns). All you need is a toilet bowl for some drugs.
 
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How did the FBI put it, don't make assumptions until any facts are known (I know hard to do these days). Also both sides seem to have there crazies that think stuff like that would actually gain them anything. You know shooting republicans at baseball games, country music concerts and such.



The Vegas shooter was a Democrat? Hillary voter, maybe? Or a Bernie-bro?
 
The Vegas shooter was a Democrat? Hillary voter, maybe? Or a Bernie-bro?

I don't know, not really my concern as I am not that partisan (unlike some others, and might be why I can have a real discussion). But I do know NOFX is heavily leftist (do damn political is why I stopped listening to there shit) and they seem to cheer on a guy shooting up what is seen as a right leaning type of music event. I cheer on no deaths and violence should always be a last resort, but I separate out what the tools they used were as there is always a different tool, on look at why people commit violent acts, and what can actually be done to stop violence, not just taking one or two of the tools away.
 
IIRC while he was democrat, he went after the country music festival because it was the closest one going on and he was looking up other large gatherings according to the FBI.
 
@MutantScalper
Hey so it looks like the bombs sent might be fakes

From CNN

Ryan Morris, founder of Tripwire Operations Group, a company that provides explosives training to law enforcement and military officials, said that by examining images of two devices -- the one found Monday at Soros' home and the one sent to CNN's New York offices Wednesday -- it looked like they were real devices that would cause serious bodily injury or death.
"Whoever is doing this is just trying to elicit a fear or disrupt something," Morris said. "There are a multitude of more sophisticated methodologies that would have worked if they really wanted this to work."

They even brought up how they used a cheap $6 amazon clock that would have been easily detectable. Hmmm why would somebody send a bunch of fake bombs out 2 weeks before elections?

Like I said wait for facts before you go blaming one side or the other. I'm blaming anarchist's.
 
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