Gun Control

Arnust said:
Insane indeed; doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. In this case, dignating PD to a response. And then expecting a sensible reaction.
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Hahahaha, why you rambling to yourself!? :V

I used to be like... against ignore function by principle, but I had to give it a shot, and not seeing PDs twitchy angerfuryrage reminds me of back when I quit FB, which in turn reminded me of when I quit smoking

Hm... "show ignored content" link is right there, that's a bit dissapointing. I was hoping for a bit of a more permanent effect
 
Arnust said:
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Why did you post this pic though, lol? Is Jerry happy because now he can legally blow Tom away with his firearm? :)
 
MutantScalper said:
Why did you post this pic though, lol? Is Jerry happy because now he can legally blow Tom away with his firearm? :)
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https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/polish-jerry
"Polish Jerry refers to a series of image macros featuring a picture of Jerry from Tom and Jerry with his eyes half open. A popular dank meme, the image is usually coupled by a caption below the picture, which is generally an offensive joke."

It's just sort of absurdist, don't pay it much mind. I see it as a reaction to something so baffling one's not exactly sure how to react to.
 
Arnust said:
The US aren't a warzone guys, for real. Those armed guards on every single gathering place and establishment could also serve drinks and shit on their downtime, I 'unno.
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Honestly ... I am not so sure about that anymore. I mean, you could throw those guys in the worst place in Iraq and they would blend in nicely with the rest of the troops ...

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Even here in Germany, it starts to look more and more like a 'military' when you see what gear they use sometimes. They don't look all like that, I know, but it's kinda alarming in my opinion.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Even here in Germany, it starts to look more and more like a 'military' when you see what gear they use sometimes. They don't look all like that, I know, but it's kinda alarming in my opinion.
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I don't find it alarming that officers are wearing equipment to better protect themselves. I think it's a perception issue more than anything, and social media - Facebook in particular - has done irreparable harm in creating a black and white atmosphere.
 
So you're not at all worried when the police is looking more and more like a military force driving with armored vehicles trough your neighbourhood and officers talk like 'This is a war and you're on the frontline!' to their subordinates?



I saw police officers armed with machinepistols patroling the streets here sometimes - a street that has absolutely no use for it by the way, as the worst that's ever happening here is when someone is stealing your bicycle.

There is a certain issue when 1. The police is required to get in an 'arms race' with the criminals and 2. issuing equipment that's actually meant for a warzone. Once you have a certain amount of equipment, it is very likely that it will see use in situations where it's not required or oversized. Like a protest for example. People often forget that the idea of the police is not scare the population into submission.

Honestly, it's strange that you're 'pro-military-police' though, considering your stance on weapons, if I remember correctly.
 
Crni Vuk said:
So you're not at all worried when the police is looking more and more like a military force driving with armored vehicles trough your neighbourhood?
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They don't. In California there are no SWAT or armored vehicles patrolling streets here. When they have to, it's in response to an active shooter, bomb-threat, etc that beat cops can't handle. Even in the rougher parts of SF it's unusual and not commonplace.

I was in Georgia, Atlanta 4 weeks ago and the most I saw of militarized Police was two officers casually patrolling (more like casually strolling) the Ravens vs Saints tail-gating party outside of the stadium. They had kevlar vests and rifles at most.

Crni Vuk said:
1. The police is required to get in an 'arms race' with the criminals
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North Hollywood shootout was a lesson that Police forces learned from. I would prefer a prepared police force rather than one that is not equipped to handle two idiots with AK-47s. The fact nobody (but the two idiots with AK-47s) was killed is unreal considering how much ammunition was exchanged between the two sides. If the Police were better equipped that shootout would have been over sooner.

Crni Vuk said:
2. issuing equipment that's actually meant for a warzone
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North Hollywood Shootout. Mandalay Bay, Etc. It's not widespread enough to cause a panic here, regardless of what the media tries to spin up. They're trying to do the same with the caravan of 4,000 immigrants coming South America to the U.S. border. Again, over-sensationalized nonsense.

Crni Vuk said:
Like a protest for example. People often forget that the idea of the police is not scare the population into submission.
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True enough, but protests have started to devolve and attract unwanted belligerents that aren't there to peacefully protest. The Dallas shooter was a pretty good example of police and people coming together, but all it took was one idiot to ruin it all.

Crni Vuk said:
Honestly, it's strange that you're 'pro-military-police' though, considering your stance on weapons, if I remember correctly.
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Believe it or not police here are pro-gun (you'd be shocked at how many police are active NRA members in California alone). Again, you have a perception issue which prevents you from seeing the nuance in topics like these.
 
Honestly I see no issue with the police gear either, I did a bit at one time, but have been talking with some ex SWAT members here. For these guys its nothing but proper PPE, same as a construction worker putting on steel-toed boots and a hard hat. They go to work everyday in the same gear as the rest of the cops, but those guys are expected to put up with above and beyond when they get called in, and they should have the gear needed. Safety in the workplace requires those engineered controls.
 
Woha, for freedom loving gun people I am honestly surprised about this kind of reaction, not that I am judging anyone here, I just always believed that if anyone would be supsicious of such an evolution, it would be gun owners which I always thought are the 'don't-ever-put-trust-in-the-government' type of guys and always see things sceptically.

I personaly belive a society is doing something fundamentally wrong, if cops have to be equiped like they are going to patrol into the streets of afghanistan. That doesn't mean police forces shouldn't get the correct equipment for their own protection but even more for the protection of others, which I see as their duty. But I am always curious where we will draw the line ... remember those kind of things happen in small steps, incrementally.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Honestly ... I am not so sure about that anymore. I mean, you could throw those guys in the worst place in Iraq and they would blend in nicely with the rest of the troops ...
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They look that way because they got all that stuff for free from the Department of Defense because it is cheaper to give it to police stations then to store it somewhere. Since Kevlar has an actual shelf life and the government is willing to give you a truck load of gear for free, as well as the truck and the truck is bomb proof it was a no-brainer to see the police replace aging gear with free stuff.
 
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CRNI

Haven't we already taken care of the whole SWAT situation in previous discussions. It is crazy you consistently bring up those police pics when I already told you about those things.

SWAT and anything like them are not ROUTINELY used. Most police are NOT decked out in gear. You are essentially cherry picking the pics you want while ignoring the rest.
 
Well Crni, I just put myself in their shoes. If I had to take on the worst the police have to deal with, I would want the same gear as well. Every hunting rifle would plough right on through pretty much every part of a normal car or truck besides the engine block. So yeah I would want an MRAP too to hide behind and be safe while the containment happens, and I would want a vest that could stop a 30 caliber round. Smg or shotgun for clearing a building. I am no armchair warrior but I would think that would be the minimum PPE to effectively protect myself. Workplace safety is all about minimizing the risk to yourself and others after all.
 
DarkCorp said:
CRNI

Haven't we already taken care of the whole SWAT situation in previous discussions. It is crazy you consistently bring up those police pics when I already told you about those things.

SWAT and anything like them are not ROUTINELY used. Most police are NOT decked out in gear. You are essentially cherry picking the pics you want while ignoring the rest.
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You're the one who seems to think that USA police = European police. Which is most certainly not the case. Not when it comes to the quality, duration, level, aims, etc. of the training. Not when it comes to operating procedures such as do they shoot to kill or do they shoot to wound. Etc. They're not the same thing.
 
MutantScalper said:
You're the one who seems to think that USA police = European police. Which is most certainly not the case. Not when it comes to the quality, duration, level, aims, etc. of the training. Not when it comes to operating procedures such as do they shoot to kill or do they shoot to wound. Etc. They're not the same thing.
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Hahahaha, I think you are the one who is confused when you make comments like shoot to kill. Ever cop I have ever talked to about training and such (many European, some American, and tonnes of Canadians) are all trained when they use there gun to shoot center of mass as its the easiest target to hit. They never shoot to kill or shoot to wound, they shoot to stop the person. I know one cop who has killed someone (I have never actually asked, but my wife went to school with this guy and he got posted to our home town coincidentally) was extremely messed up and considered it a failure because he had to pull that trigger. Cops either North American or European DO NOT want to shoot people.

Have you even ever been to the US? I have many times and never once thought I was in a war zone like you make it out to be, hell the only firearms I saw were the ones I was shooting at a range.
 
Hmmm, maybe next time you should consider to visit Compton or Ferguson. Not that those kind of areas don't exist in Europe. But there is a huge disparity in the US between rich and poor, and there are more poor areas which pose very serious issues for police officers, as it comes with all kinds of crime, from drug abuse to viollent crimes.
 
Crni

I said nothing of the sort.

The last time you tried some cheap ass stunt like cherry picking photos I told you.

You posted a photos of a regular police officer on the left and a SWAT officer on the right. You then tried to falsely equate that all officers were like the one on the right, and how officers used to be like the picture on the left.

I will say again. NOT ALL POLICE are SWAT.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Hmmm, maybe next time you should consider to visit Compton or Ferguson. Not that those kind of areas don't exist in Europe. But there is a huge disparity in the US between rich and poor, and there are more poor areas which pose very serious issues for police officers, as it comes with all kinds of crime, from drug abuse to viollent crimes.
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Yes but almost every country has a spot or two that is "dangerous" for police officers. It also happens that in the US they have gone the gun control route for most of those places, and it has not helped. I doubt though that every time a cop goes to those areas they are fully SWAT teamed up. Like I said no police officer wants to go out that day and go, I am going to go out and shoot someone to kill them today. They just want to do their job and go home, like everyone else who has a job to do.
 
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