Has fallout as a franchise become morrally bankrupt from the acquisition by Bethesda back in 2004?

I do wonder how they will dumb down both series with the next games. A lot of people that liked Fallout 3 hated Fallout 4 because it was going way too far in not being a RPG, so any further stripping of whatever vestige of RPG their games still have will eventually turn off even the casuals.

Making things simpler obviously pays off when a large portion of the gaming community are casuals, but like everything it has a limit. It has to reach a point when even the broader audience doesn't want to play your game because it's far too simple.
 
The majority of players (it would seem to me) equate Roleplaying 1:1 with digital cosplay (meaning they see it as wearing the persona—and gender), and I think Bethesda will strive to diminish the annoying concept that the player is not personally present in the events; the concept of a character will be erased; leaving an alternate-life reaction sim.

Basically a software version of Westworld—ideally minus the bugs.



Needless to mention... this is a terrible thing (and mentality) for RPG design.
 
The truth is as we've seen with Wastelanders is that they can lobotomize the game in every other area but bringing back memorable "things" like the dialogue options will be more than enough just on its own to get them to forget about that.

All the discussion is on the dialogue trees and not how Skills and SPECIAL have been mutilated into something more meaningless and basic than Far Cry 3's perk tree.
 
Fallout has been morally bankrupt since NV. As soon as Beth made Fallout an FPS, the coffin was built. When they went all-in on the concept? Fuck, the series went up in smoke faster than Cheech, Chong, and Snoop Dogg in the same room.
 
Gizmojunk said:
The majority of players (it would seem to me) equate Roleplaying 1:1 with digital cosplay (meaning they see it as wearing the persona—and gender), and I think Bethesda will strive to diminish the annoying concept that the player is not personally present in the events; the concept of a character will be erased; leaving an alternate-life reaction sim.

Basically a software version of Westworld—ideally minus the bugs.



Needless to mention... this is a terrible thing (and mentality) for RPG design.
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I wholeheartedly agree Gizmo, unfortunately. I've lost all hope in Bethesda after Fallout 4's removal of skills. Their games are now basically LARPing simulators, a far cry from cRPGs.
 
Gameplay is no problem because we can mess around with it in mods and change it in ways developers dont want to see.

Writings, however, is no good. It is set in stone and noone can fix it.
 
Honestly, dumbing down the series wouldn't be as bad if the writing was actually good. Telltale games have little to no gameplay but the story usually makes up for it. Fallout 4 was so close to good writing, but then once you confront Kellogg the story kind of just falls apart for me. You cant talk him down, then the BoS is immediately shoe-horned in again, and then you can go to the institute and their motives are "Durr humanity?".

IMO, if the game started with you waking up from cryostasis and retaining no memory from pre-war, then you find out you're a synth, the game might've been better. There's a lot I'd do with this concept, and a lot of re-writing in general, that might make the game better. There are just too many flaws, why is the institute replacing people with synths? Why are coursers just stronger synths? Why is mayor McDonough a synth? Why did the institute make FEV? And why is the BoS back again?

One day I'd like to pick up coding and just do a total overhaul of Fallout 4 to make the story better.

Of course a good story can't always make up for shitty gameplay. I don't have any examples but it feels like that's just a given. I feel like I should say more but I can't think of more to say so I'll leave it with this.
 
Amnesia, while being a good story hook, is a bit too overused at this point. Although I agree that overusage is still better than the current method.
 
KingArthur said:
Fallout has been morally bankrupt since NV. As soon as Beth made Fallout an FPS, the coffin was built. When they went all-in on the concept? Fuck, the series went up in smoke faster than Cheech, Chong, and Snoop Dogg in the same room.
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I mean on paper I think the idea of fallout being an fps ain't too bad, but is true the way they handled the mechanics of gunplay in that game (and in nv too even though obsidion tried their best to improve soon it) was so terrible, Fallout 4 honestly surprised me with how decent the combat was but that ain't much of a competion when trying to have better shooting mechanics then fallout fucking 3.


I will say I had beaten fallout 1 first time recently and currently going through fallout 2 and while at first the turn based combat system was bit daunting I'm starting to enjoy it least compared to the newer games system theirs lot more thinking involving your tatics and what equipment to use so I can understand from an older fan's perspective how bethesdia dumbed down and fucked up the combat system. (Melee though in 3, NV and 4 are still a joke though)
 
And that’s what killed it for me. There’s worse things that 3 could’ve been than an FPS RPG. Unfortunately, it wasn’t an RPG and was barely an FPS.

It’s worth noting that I play 3 for dumb fun, but it’s not NV and sure as all fuck isn’t the original Fallout.
 
KingArthur said:
And that’s what killed it for me. There’s worse things that 3 could’ve been than an FPS RPG. Unfortunately, it wasn’t an RPG and was barely an FPS.

It’s worth noting that I play 3 for dumb fun, but it’s not NV and sure as all fuck isn’t the original Fallout.
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I would lump Fallout 4 in with Fallout 3 as well with playing it for dumb fun, but I think with 3's combat system being so shit I could never go back to it, is sad that 3 was my first fallout game ever so I thought bethesdia knew what they were doing and as kid I loved it I even liked 4, then I played through new vegas visited these forums and watched some videos discussing 3 and 4.

Slowly I realized how much bethesdia had not only wasted potential on these games from a role playing perspective, but seemed to of made em very accessible to a wider audience thus removing the complexity they had before, course now I know the og fallout and nv are much better and I'm glad to be able to play the original's which I been very much enjoying.
 
Well, that’s just the issue. They had all the potential in the world and really squandered it. It’s easy to see why people hate the Beth games so much.
 
KingArthur said:
Well, that’s just the issue. They had all the potential in the world and really squandered it. It’s easy to see why people hate the Beth games so much.
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Especially more so now after Fallout 76, some of their bigger supporters seemed to of waken up from the kool-aid bethesdia gave them years ago.
 
Thing is Uber Morph, there will always be new suckers who will pour down the kool-aid.

The best outcome would have been if Fallout had remained a niche title. Sure it would have had even less sequels than it has now but it may have remained more true to its source/origins than the IP has become now.

(honestly, I don't want to sound like a gatekeeper but I think almost every IP reaches a point in which some gatekeeping is required as otherwise you let in the people who just want to turn an IP into something only they themselves like)

Alternatively it might have been better if the IP had just died after Black Isle's Fallout 3 was cancelled and only continued in fan mods. (or died after FNV)
It would be frustrating that there would never be a major title ever again but we now know what the fate of IPs are when a company wants to make them more mainstream.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Thing is Uber Morph, there will always be new suckers who will pour down the kool-aid.

The best outcome would have been if Fallout had remained a niche title. Sure it would have had even less sequels than it has now but it may have remained more true to its source/origins than the IP has become now.

(honestly, I don't want to sound like a gatekeeper but I think almost every IP reaches a point in which some gatekeeping is required as otherwise you let in the people who just want to turn an IP into something only they themselves like)

Alternatively it might have been better if the IP had just died after Black Isle's Fallout 3 was cancelled and only continued in fan mods. (or died after FNV)
It would be frustrating that there would never be a major title ever again but we now know what the fate of IPs are when a company wants to make them more mainstream.
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Oh defiantly I would take new vegas not existing if it means us not getting Fallout 3 or Fallout 4, and I do agree some IPs reach a certain deadline where they should either be put to rest or put on hold for an certain amount of time, I would honestly compare Fallout's foundation being rotten over time like the recent Star Wars films.
 
Mr Fish said:
Some argue that skills are still in there in the form of perks.
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As much the skills being somewhat gone is bad, I argue the worst thing bethesdia got rid of (or in this case forced into Fallout 4) is the no more then 4 or less then 4 dialogue choices this completely strips and dumb downs the conversion system literally every other Fallout game (including 3) had in only "yes" "no yes" "maybe" or a "?" / "Sarcasm" aka terrible fucking joke responses.

It gets even worse when they dumb down the speech system into just an rng based system related only to your charisma and only gives you more caps or just having someone not do something by saying "pretty please".
 
Well, a lot of people asked for a voiced protagonist back when I was haunting the Bethesda forums so they got what they asked for.
 
Don't remember, I do remember us who wanted Fallout to not to turn into a bag of dogshit puke telling them (and ostensibly Bethesda) that it would be a bad idea repeatedly. Dunno how many of those Fallout 4 Suggestions threads I wasted my time away in when Bethesda didn't listen to a single one of our compromises and almost did the complete opposite just to really rub our face in it.

This sums up Bethesda's consideration for literally any idea to salvage Fallout:
 
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