Hearing "War never changes" in Fallout 4 is so cringeworthy.

I took a look at each of the Fallout openings (except Fallout 4. That game doesn't exist) to compare them. Fallout 3's opening is fucked (imo). Where Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas give you some context about the world, the nuclear war, the Vaults, and the history of the area you're about to explore, Fallout 3 says this:

"War. War never changes.

Since the dawn of human kind, when our ancestors first discovered the killing power of rock and bone, blood has been spilled in the name of everything: from God to justice to simple, psychotic rage.

In the year 2077, after millennia of armed conflict, the destructive nature of man could sustain itself no longer. The world was plunged into an abyss of nuclear fire and radiation.

But it was not, as some had predicted, the end of the world. Instead, the apocalypse was simply the prologue to another bloody chapter of human history. For man had succeeded in destroying the world - but war, war never changes." The monologue then proceeds to lie to you about how no one has ever left Vault 101.

This opening monologue is stupid. It doesn't talk about war, it talks about humanity's capacity for violence. Since when has a war been fought over "simple, psychotic rage"? It attributes the 2077 nuclear war, not to battles over resources, but due to an inherent destructive part of human nature.

I'm sure there are people who agree with this. Conservative philosophy is based on the chief idea that humanity, without any kind of moral or lawful structure, descends into a state of nature little better than an animal, "nasty, brutish and short" (sorry if this isn't totally true. Studied politics aeons ago so my politics knowledge of Hobbes and Burke is a little rusty. Please don't turn this thread into a giant "conservative philosophy is actually blah blah...")

While I disagree with this conservative idea, I take no issue with it as the basis of a game. But I do take issue with it as a basis for a Fallout game. The other Fallout games leave it morally ambiguous about what causes humans to do what they do. Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas don't place any kind of moral judgement on humanity from the get-go. They explain the reasons for the 2077 war: resources. And that's it. Make up your own mind as to why humanity shot itself in the foot.

While Interplay and Black Isle are saying, "War never changes" meaning that war never changes in its destruction of lives and livelihoods, Bethesda is saying, "War never changes" in the sense that humanity hasn't changed at all since we first figured out how to bash other humans over the head with rocks.

EDIT: tl;dr basically whereas Ron Perlman's narration in the original games was used to just give some facts about the player's situation, Fallout 3 uses the narration to express an opinion of human nature, and then narrative-wise mislead the player about the facts of Vault 101 for a later plot-twist.

(EVEN MORE EDIT: It's worth mentioning Ulysses in Fallout New Vegas as well. Ulysses' little monologue at the end of Lonesome Road also expresses an opinion of human nature when he says "war never changes but men do, with the roads they walk" (or something along those lines) the difference between this and Ron Perlman's Fallout 3 monologue is that Ulysses is a character with actual opinions. The ending of Lonesome Road is HIS opinion, not necessarily the game's or player's. By contrast, Rob Perlman is a disembodied voice whose word we are supposed to take as fact. By expressing an opinion of human nature, and deliberately misleading the player, it just makes me wonder who the Ron Perlman "character" is, when the original point was that he was just meant to be a characterless narrator giving you some historic context.)
 
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I hate it when the boring generic dumbfuck male protagonist says "War, war never changes" in the mirror in the beginning of the game. That was so cringeworthy and pointless, I mean why does he say that in the mirror? For some speech about a quote him and Bethesda don't know the meaning to? I know that maybe I'm looking into it, on the other hand why do they use that quote? It's pointless in having it in Fallout 4 when the game has no meaning behind war other than "We treat a huge nuclear war and post apocalyptic world like a big wacky and fun joke!".
 
MercenarySnake said:
I hate it when the boring generic dumbfuck male protagonist says "War, war never changes" in the mirror in the beginning of the game. That was so cringeworthy and pointless, I mean why does he say that in the mirror? For some speech about a quote him and Bethesda don't know the meaning to? I know that maybe I'm looking into it, on the other hand why do they use that quote? It's pointless in having it in Fallout 4 when the game has no meaning behind war other than "We treat a huge nuclear war and post apocalyptic world like a big wacky and fun joke!".
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Pretty sure Nate says "Wars never changes." because he was going to give a speech over at Concord, I dunno. Still doesn't make it any less cringy and funny.

War never changes was meant to be a quote explaining that even in dire times humanity still fights and wages war, now Bethesda has just made it a funny joke that you snicker at when you hear it.
 
Knight In Leather Armor said:
Pretty sure Nate says "Wars never changes." because he was going to give a speech over at Concord, I dunno. Still doesn't make it any less cringy and funny.

War never changes was meant to be a quote explaining that even in dire times humanity still fights and wages war, now Bethesda has just made it a funny joke that you snicker at when you hear it.
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Yeah, there is a place in outer Boston that is some kind of military veterans center, wher you can see computers with memos of the main character coming there for a speech.
It's a "nice" datail and all the far they dared to go with "Your life in the Pre-War" business. Also, it must become incredibly dumb if you go there with the female character.
 
Well, they're going to need a catchy catchphrase, for the franchise that is Fallout. For the Fallout movies, TV series, comics, novels, decorations, snacks, gift sets, and probably even a theme park. Maybe even for when television personalities and celebrities bring it up, or for people to use in everyday occurences like with Star Wars quotes. After all, Fallout is a worldwide phenomenon now!

...or so Bethesda thinks, but with excessive ambition comes hubris. But still! "Vault-Tec, prepared for the future!", "Welcome home!", "War never changes...", have to fit in as many catchphrases as possible for when Fallout becomes the spearhead of modern pop culture.

Is there supposed to be some ironic subtext to this whole debacle? Like maybe how Bethesda's take on Fallout is basically what the original Fallout games were supposed to be a satire of?


On another note, I'm starting to enjoy watching people on NMA squirm and suffer everytime Bethesda does something stupid, again. Preferably to the lore. Almost like grim satisfaction. Does this make me a bad person? :puppy-dog:
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
On another note, I'm starting to enjoy watching people on NMA squirm and suffer everytime Bethesda does something stupid, again. Preferably to the lore. Almost like grim satisfaction. Does this make me a bad person? :puppy-dog:
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'You sound a bit like a dom.'
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
On another note, I'm starting to enjoy watching people on NMA squirm and suffer everytime Bethesda does something stupid, again. Preferably to the lore. Almost like grim satisfaction. Does this make me a bad person? :puppy-dog:
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Yes.
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
Thanks...?



I do not get this reference and I am stuck between desperately wanting to know and desperately wanting to not know.
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Oh my God, have you never done one of the best quests in New Vegas, Wang Dang Atomic Tango? Go talk to the Garrets in Freeside to initiate the quest, you'll have no regrets, it's one of the best in the game.
 
Ragemage said:
Oh my God, have you never done one of the best quests in New Vegas, Wang Dang Atomic Tango? Go talk to the Garrets in Freeside to initiate the quest, you'll have no regrets, it's one of the best in the game.
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Oh. That quest. Now I remember.
 
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