How in the hell can they say this game is Faction balanced?

[Anarchosyn]

Regardless of whether the Legion are "grey" or not is immaterial if you don't really encounter them for the first 30-40 hours of game play. Even if the player isn't completely convinced that the NCR is the way to go they'll be habitualized to their presence and conditioned to take that side since so much of the narrative leading up to the strip involves them.

I think New Vegas could have done with a better presentational balance of the sides early on.. Nipton was a missed opportunity (that is, unless I missed an opportunity to encounter more than a negative first impression).

/rant

 

[Lexx]

Even if the player isn't completely convinced that the NCR is the way to go they'll be habitualized to their presence and conditioned to take that side since so much of the narrative leading up to the strip involves them.

Still, the ending that was taken mostly is the independent one.

 

[Crni Vuk]

by now everyone knows the Legion is the weakest of the plot, quest and NPC whise. You get a lot more with the NCR and House (Strip if you want so) location.

 

[Threepwood]

There are about 4 Legion side quests and no specifically Legion alligned companions.

 

[C2B]

Honestly...

Personally...

I can't side with the NCR. They suck and it just doesn't work. They suck at literary EVERYTHING they do. Good intention or not. They suck hard.

The independent one is the best option though long-term it could also end up as the worst.

And the legion. Actually I personally see the legion as the best option. At least long-term. That said, if Cesar dies and the Legate takes over (or anyone else from his current military staff). Yeah, is the worst option.

 

[Threepwood]

Honestly...

Personally...

I can't side with the NCR. They suck and it just doesn't work. They suck at literary EVERYTHING they do. Good intention or not. They suck hard.

The independent one is the best option though long-term it could also end up as the worst.

And the legion. Actually I personally see the legion as the best option. At least long-term. That said, if Cesar dies and the Legate takes over (or anyone else from his current military staff). Yeah, is the worst option.

Hate to start another NCR v Legion argument but, i'm going to anyway, aha.

If it weren't for the Legion presence in the mojave; the NCR wouldn't be overstretched, and thier good intentions would blossom into positive results.

The only reason the goals can't come to fruition, is because everytime they try and secure the roads, Legion ambushes them. Everytime they get new supplies, they are soon pillaged and taken. The Rangers posted along the riverbank, and the man power diverted to places like Forlorn Hope and Camp Golf, need not be there if not for the Legion in itself.

 

[Faceless Stranger]

If it weren't for the Legion presence in the mojave; the NCR wouldn't be overstretched, and thier good intentions would blossom into positive results.

The NCR's incompetance was showing before they entered the Mojave, they've always been corrupt, even in Fallout 2, when they hired raiders to pester Vault City into joining.

 

[Mr Krepe]

I've always liked the NCR, mostly because they're like any modern day goverment, large, militarily capable, and most commonly corrupt, I just like the seedy sides of the republic.

 

[Threepwood]

If it weren't for the Legion presence in the mojave; the NCR wouldn't be overstretched, and thier good intentions would blossom into positive results.

The NCR's incompetance was showing before they entered the Mojave, they've always been corrupt, even in Fallout 2, when they hired raiders to pester Vault City into joining.

But think about how stable the California region is. Worth a bit of dirty work.

 

[Anarchosyn]

Well, I would like to like the Legion. Hell, I even let NCR guys get slaughtered in front of my PC's eyes on a few random occasions just because I didn't want to get involved (just observed and looted bodies afterwards).

However, being a role player that constantly tries to base in game decisions less on what *I* want as a player and more on the motivations of the characters I build (I give them philosophies and sketch quick backgrounds to aid in this ), I found it pretty impossible to not side with the NCR. Never mind the less-than-gray qualities of the Legion -- I can suspend disbelief and say their are benefits to slavery and fascism (I wear my real politics on my shift sleeves here, *points at user name*). I even don't mind the roman element -- from a development standpoint it's arguably the only way you can sell a joinable faction with such draconian ideals (i.e. the roman stuff is a nigh-on constant reminder that "well, the Romans did it! Who doesn't like the Romans!"). My problem is that the natural flow of the narrative doesn't bring you into contact with them earlier enough (I'm lvl 13, 30-40 hours in and still haven't really met them besides low level encampments in Nelson, Nipton and Cotten.. something) .

Incidentally, though I'm still playing my first play-through, I've decided to take the pro-NCR approach for many of the reasons Guybrush referenced above. The Strip is all well and good but one would still have to invest in dealing with the NCR lest the outlying regions get overrun by Legionaries (cutting off trade, etc). In the long run, it would be like taking a managerial job -- non-stop political balancing in a fashion my character (more of a self interested, science and adventure geek) wouldn't particularly want. In the future, however, I do intend to deal with the Yes Man.

p.s. Sadly, I felt Dave Foley phoned his performance in... . He really excelled at doing 1950s-esque right wing paranoid reactionaries ...

like:


Commies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83tnWFojtcY

If it weren't for the Legion presence in the mojave; the NCR wouldn't be overstretched, and thier good intentions would blossom into positive results.

The NCR's incompetance was showing before they entered the Mojave, they've always been corrupt, even in Fallout 2, when they hired raiders to pester Vault City into joining.

But think about how stable the California region is. Worth a bit of dirty work.

This is a very good point. There are always trade offs when ceding autonomy -- but the gains outweigh the losses. This, incidentally, is actually the rationale behind fascism (both Italian and Spanish, at least) though I'd say not all trade offs are worth it. The NCR doesn't really seem to impose much of a presence on the people, besides a little oversight and (one would presume) taxation.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Honestly...

Personally...

I can't side with the NCR. They suck and it just doesn't work. They suck at literary EVERYTHING they do. Good intention or not. They suck hard.

The independent one is the best option though long-term it could also end up as the worst.

And the legion. Actually I personally see the legion as the best option. At least long-term. That said, if Cesar dies and the Legate takes over (or anyone else from his current military staff). Yeah, is the worst option.

Thats not the point. What ever if the Legion or the NCR are the better way to deal with the situation the issue is that the legion is shown from a pretty bad angle in the game and if you want to do a good chunk of the game you are more or less "forced" to deal with the NCR. For example runing around with the Legion will make more or less the whole mojave hostile toward you (a bit exagerated, but you get the picture). So by Fallout Vegas standart the NCR is the "real" gray faction while the Legion is shown as a simple army of conquerors and slavers when they both should be more or less "gray", if you want to be true with the Fallout setting.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

If it weren't for the Legion presence in the mojave; the NCR wouldn't be overstretched, and thier good intentions would blossom into positive results.

Like the forceful annexation of New Vegas, which didn't happen only because the NCR had its hands full with the Legion. Good intentions, indeed.

 

[C2B]

Honestly...

Personally...

I can't side with the NCR. They suck and it just doesn't work. They suck at literary EVERYTHING they do. Good intention or not. They suck hard.

The independent one is the best option though long-term it could also end up as the worst.

And the legion. Actually I personally see the legion as the best option. At least long-term. That said, if Cesar dies and the Legate takes over (or anyone else from his current military staff). Yeah, is the worst option.

Thats not the point. What ever if the Legion or the NCR are the better way to deal with the situation the issue is that the legion is shown from a pretty bad angle in the game and if you want to do a good chunk of the game you are more or less "forced" to deal with the NCR. For example runing around with the Legion will make more or less the whole mojave hostile toward you (a bit exagerated, but you get the picture). So by Fallout Vegas standart the NCR is the "real" gray faction while the Legion is shown as a simple army of conquerors and slavers when they both should be more or less "gray", if you want to be true with the Fallout setting.

Oh no, don't get me wrong. I agree on their presentation.

On the other hand.....

I don't see how they could have wrote them more likeable concerning the situation in the mojave. At that point the Legion are invaders. Except for a companion (which probably Ulysses was inteded to be) there is really no way to show them as likeable. Especially with a background like theirs.

You met their military staff, you see their war tactics and thats it.

 

[Crni Vuk]

yeah, but they could have simply expanded on the legion giving them more land and space so we would eventually see a Legion controled City or location, with civilians and members of the Legion which do not scream "oh my god we are militaristic il fascismos (in italian even so it sounds roman!)" in your eyes.

The funny thing is inside the Legion camp you can meet a trader who regularly visits the camp and the area behind it a conversation with him will show that he tells you something like the Legion area is so save that you pretty much dont need any guards with you. I wish there would have been more to show that. A Village maybe or even a town. It seems the NCR get so many locations which they either control or protect (or are present). The Legion could have been shown in one of their towns from the best side. Safety. Steady economy. Usual citizens. Trading and all that. It would have been important though that the game leads you quite early to such a place and give you the oportunity in realistic conversations with the people there. Maybe as well meet "ex legionaries" (this is the point that bugs me most we have this big mojave and there are NO deserters either with the NCR or Legion, EX NCR soldiers yes, but would have been nice to get in contact with people that simply escaped, and even wit ha chance to tell the factions their postion )

 

[Threepwood]

If it weren't for the Legion presence in the mojave; the NCR wouldn't be overstretched, and thier good intentions would blossom into positive results.

Like the forceful annexation of New Vegas, which didn't happen only because the NCR had its hands full with the Legion. Good intentions, indeed.

Well, Vegas under house is a small elitist city run by one sole dictator and an army of robots. Law enforcing, black and white robots. The outskirts consist of many miles of slums and starving cities infested with Fiends and other dangers. The NCR is helping feed the entire (with the couriers help) populace, aswell as patrol the areas, battle the raiders and grow food on an industrial scae. Where would the Mojave get it's food without those giant pipes from lake mead, and the huge sharecropper farms?

I'd say replacing house with an elected leader, and by extension stabalising Freeside, Westside, and North Vegas is worth 'forced annexation'.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Well, Vegas under house is a small elitist city run by one sole dictator and an army of robots. Law enforcing, black and white robots. The outskirts consist of many miles of slums and starving cities infested with Fiends and other dangers. The NCR is helping feed the entire (with the couriers help) populace, aswell as patrol the areas, battle the raiders and grow food on an industrial scae. Where would the Mojave get it's food without those giant pipes from lake mead, and the huge sharecropper farms?

I'd say replacing house with an elected leader, and by extension stabalising Freeside, Westside, and North Vegas is worth 'forced annexation'.

Oh, I agree that it would be better for New Vegas if it was under NCR control. It's just that I don't believe for a second that they want to annex it because they are just and kind and think to the well-being of the people living there. There's no good intentions here, just politics.

 

[Threepwood]

Oh, I agree that it would be better for New Vegas if it was under NCR control. It's just that I don't believe for a second that they want to annex it because they are just and kind and think to the well-being of the people living there. There's no good intentions here, just politics

Why does the NCR exist? To get money and power for fat cats? No, it annex's things because it want's to rally other provinces under it's banner and make life better for people, with the ultimate goal of securing the United States.

If house refuses to let NCR take over, and NCR clearly will improve life for people, then House is at fault there. NCR are doing what they can, to, albeit forcibly annex the Strip.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Why does the NCR exist? To get money and power for fat cats? No, it annex's things because it want's to rally other provinces under it's banner and make life better for people, with the ultimate goal of securing the United States.

What? Maybe in the beginning (I think there is actually someone saying that this was the kind of ideals Tandi had), certainly not when it reached a certain size.

 

[Threepwood]

Why does the NCR exist? To get money and power for fat cats? No, it annex's things because it want's to rally other provinces under it's banner and make life better for people, with the ultimate goal of securing the United States.

What? Maybe in the beginning (I think there is actually someone saying that this was the kind of ideals Tandi had), certainly not when it reached a certain size.

Pray tell, for what purpose does the NCR exist then?

 

[Crni Vuk]

strange how most if not all topics about factions end in "why I hate the NCR" discusions