How is Caesar's army not a joke?

[zegh8578]

It seems like people are forgetting how many times a well trained guerrilla force kicked the shit out of a technologically advanced army.

They're forgetting even more that the game, the source, the base of lore, opens up for either side to completely demolish the other, depending on player choice
Maybe they did not fully accomplish it, but the intention certainly was for all four sides (NCR, Legion, House, Independent Vegas) to have an equally plausible shot at victory

Once people forego the obvious answer to a question, and keep asking, we're going into dead-horse-beating territory, and threads like these go on for months, before finally drowning in the older pages, before getting re-created all over again

NCR would win.
No Legon would win.
No, they dont have good weapons
No, NCR are too stretched thin

^Game parameters, guys, game parameters

 

[Walpknut]

That's why it's called a stalemate.

 

[TorontoReign]

Then the Courier turns things around. That is why Obsidian games are great. You can alter the outcome of the story.

Kimbell getting assassinated would be devastating since he was partly responsible for keeping the NCR there. Hanlon already wanted the NCR to pull back.

 

[zegh8578]

Then the Courier turns things around. That is why Obsidian games are great. You can alter the outcome of the story.

Exactly, the stalemate just sitting around waiting for you is excellent in terms of role playing, it really is. The battle location itself lends even more credibility to the scenario, in that it is a densely packed bottleneck, harrowing for both parties, close quarters (terrible for NCR, facing melee-armed multiple waves of attackers) as well as Legion troops (sitting ducks for out-of-reach rifle positions)

They really intended it, to the best of their efforts, to make it a true stalemate, where the Courier's actions are the final catalyst, that will completely tip the balance

Sigh... The sadness... My very first playthrough of NV, I just smiled! I sat there, and just smiled...

 

[The Lone Poopyface]

It seems like people are forgetting how many times a well trained guerrilla force kicked the shit out of a technologically advanced army.

If the Legion fought the Brotherhood then they would probably get destroyed,but the NCR isn't that technologically advanced. They have rifles.

 

[Walpknut]

The Brotherhood already got butt smashed by the NCR and their isolationist tendencies make them unprepared for real combat and pretty easy to keep pinned down. Just mine Hidden Valley and drop some rocks on their ventilation shafts, bam, no more brotherhood.

 

[zegh8578]

The Brotherhood already got butt smashed by the NCR and their isolationist tendencies make them unprepared for real combat and pretty easy to keep pinned down. Just mine Hodden Valley and drop some rocks on their ventilation shafts, bam, no more brotherhood.

Brotherhood also have small numbers. While total NCR army can be counted in numbers comparable to current nations, BoS military forces are very small, and dependent on being like "walking tanks", with their power armor and portable miniguns.
They were never meant to be a conquering force, to expand or even hold territory. They're a sealed bunker, in a world where they probably never really imagined anything more complex than guarding that entrance untill the end of time.

Obviously not counting the later additions, like "Midwest chapter" and such, which actively recruit from their surroundings, swelling up their ranks.

 

[CT Phipps]

It seems like people are forgetting how many times a well trained guerrilla force kicked the shit out of a technologically advanced army.

While true, that doesn't apply to Caesar's army because they're not guerillas. They're very practically a army with uniforms.

 

[TorontoReign]

Well that is just incorrect.

North Vietnamese troops hid supply lines and conducted guerrilla warfare.

 

[Risewild]

While true, that doesn't apply to Caesar's army because they're not guerillas. They're very practically a army with uniforms.

Actually, while the Legion is an massive army, they are also very adaptable and usually employ guerrilla tactics to weaken and demoralize the enemy.

"Guerrilla warfare is a form of irregular warfare in which a small group of combatants such as paramilitary personnel, armed civilians, or irregulars use military tactics including ambushes, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, hit-and-run tactics, and mobility to fight a larger and less-mobile traditional military."

The Legion employs an organized method of warfare. In larger battles, legionaries are deployed in waves, with recruits up front, prime soldiers behind them and veterans, the old guard, bringing up the rear. The enemy wears himself out dealing with the first two waves, with the veterans mopping up any remaining resistance when their turn comes. This is not an omnipresent, cardinal rule, however: Caesar can adapt and run any mix of legionaries as skirmishes, whilst retaining order in the ranks.[49]

Smaller Legion raids typically involve suddenly attacking, killing everyone (sometimes taking slaves) and leaving quickly. As Legate Lanius states, their forces are much better suited at taking positions than holding them due to their up close style of fighting.[59] Furthermore, Legionaries will deliberately commit atrocities to terrorize their enemies and break their morale.[37] On occasion, they are known for use of children as traps and soldiers,[60] and the use of rape to terrorize civilian populations.[61] The Legion also seeks to demoralize opposing armies before the battle even begins by torturing prisoners in sight of the army's position.[62]

This is a nice gamepedia quote with good sources.

 

[Cobra Commander]

a fun fact? You can see some legionaries carrying laser pistols in the intro



01:06

 

[Walpknut]

They are shown trying to secure a deal with the VanGraffs. My guess is that on the battlefield everything is allowed for them, but if they are in Legion territory they have to surrender them else spend the afternoon on a cross.

 

[mkba]

IRC in van buren some artworks showed a motorized vehicule for ceasar

so it just the lack of time who makes the legion like it showed in new vegas

 

[zegh8578]

IRC in van buren some artworks showed a motorized vehicule for ceasar

so it just the lack of time who makes the legion like it showed in new vegas

Always liked the idea of functional vehicles in Fallout. FO2 has the car, FOT has several vehicles that can be used in-combat, with an immensely cluncy and unpredictable point-and-click mechanism, and I just can - for the life of me - not imagine a functionally implemented vehicle into the current Bethi-fied version of Fallout. Wayyy too cluttered, nowhere to drive the car. In FONV you could have roamed the main roads, although with the speed of a car, you'd have finished those roads in just seconds

Mad Max was a good example of how driving could have worked in a game like that, which sortof offers the obvious solution - long stretches of nothingness, for you to zoom through on your way from A to B
(which again would make the car almost a requirement, lest travel be very lengthy (which is kindov like FO2 anyway))

 

[Cobra Commander]

IRC in van buren some artworks showed a motorized vehicule for ceasar

so it just the lack of time who makes the legion like it showed in new vegas

Don´t like this too much.

Cool concept, but Caesar Legion is inspired by the Roman Empire, they are not the Roman Empire literally. Same thing with Minutemen muskets.

But that's me.

 

[zegh8578]

Don´t like this too much.

Cool concept, but Caesar Legion is inspired by the Roman Empire, not the Roman Empire literally. Same thing with Minutemen muskets.

But that's me.

The roman thing rubbed me the wrong way too (same with the bikers-with-no-bikes look of the Khans, alluding to the Mongols motorcycle club I guess), but with Cesars Legion it was a little bit too obvious for my liking. But, fine, I'll play along.

With the minutemen it became annoying, and not just because of FO4Bethness, but

From the first moment I saw that dead, soulless face, with that ridiculous outfit, I wanted to rip his head off. I'm not gonna beat this dead horse any further, but my god, my god, I shot him in the face so many times, I would just keep shooting him ad he got wright up and fuckign agme me ANOTHEer mothegfcukgin quest fourth oian a godwmasan ROLSW!!!!

o_-

but yeah