How is Caesar's army not a joke?

CT Phipps said:
Lanius makes no sense in the context of being a soldier on the battlefield running to the front lines and stabbing people outside of Fallout rules.
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Good thing Lanius doesn't fight on the frontlines, but rather stays in his camp commanding from there.

Lanius isn't supposed to be a frontline fighter, he is supposed to be a terrifying symbol designed to inspire fear in Legionaries.

Most frontline fighters in the Legion have access to either basic fire-arms or some kind of high-tech weaponry.

Besides, I'm willing to bet good caps that his armour is bulletproof.
 
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My take that is that generally speaking the NCR is standard soilders are pretty basic with just a service rifle and dog tags. There armour is pretty basic. Meaning yeah are effective at range and they can recuit alot of men as well. There a oretty well rounded troop as it where however there not really specalised for example more legion soilder are at hand to hand. Witch the legoin uses effectively. The NCR does have pretty troops like the troops with slavaged pwoer armour however they will rarley deploy them because they don't want to lose them.


I think the main point is not that the NCR are weak however they just to have to hold to much land they have to fight th epower gangers the feinds and cant spend all the resources attacking the legion tehy would easily beat them. The have a much more morderned military with snipers and vertibirds. However the can't focus all the efforts on one front. Thats there biggest weakness the can just focoous o the legion
 
From what I gather, it basically works like this:

1. NCR didn't really have that much difficulty dealing with Caesar's Legion during the first invasion because they just charged at the enemy and got themselves blown up good. They used a minimum of tactics and Graham was punished for it.

2. The second time, Chief Hammond and the Rangers have been replaced by General Oliver who is planning to make a BIG EPIC STAND against Caesar's Legion when they could have defeated him in smaller engagements.

3. Caesar has adopted "hit and run" and guerilla warfare tactics against NCR this time around in order to soften them up before the Battle of Hoover Dam. He's very much using Vulpes and his agents to fuck with NCR as best they can.

* Blowing up Camp Searchlight
* Poison Gas on the Strip
* Executing an entire town of civilians
* Hitting the Ranger stations
* Making alliance with the Great Khans to hassle NCR
* Attacking that one base I'm forgetting the name of
* Spies and saboteurs at the airport
* Planning on assassinating Kimball (which will do nothing)

4. NCR has also had a few fuck-ups with the Powder Gangers getting free and the Fiends. The biggest of the problems, though, is NCR had a decent-sized war with the Brotherhood of Steel in the region that probably inflicted as many casaulties as fighting Caesar's army since the BOS refused to retreat or surrender until they were almost wiped out.

5. If General Oliver would have a more mobile NCR force then they'd probably be able to smash all of these issues well enough. As such, Caesar has been picking them off pretty well when NCR could have advanced on Caesar's position and burned it to the ground.
 
Vulpes Inculta is a spy, he isn't a soldier. And Caesar and his closed circle are more commanders rather than soldiers, thus they only have close quarter weapons because anyone stupid enough to attack them would need to be at close quarters anyway.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
Not to mention the political craze which would occur, military leaders having no orders from him, etc.
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Well it does nothing because Kimball is a complete failure as a President and leader who appoints incompetents. Martyring him is also likely to make sure the NCR wants revenge versus folds like a pair of twos.

The NCR may also be energized in fighting Caesar's Legion.
 
CT Phipps said:
Well it does nothing because Kimball is a complete failure as a President and leader who appoints incompetents. Martyring him is also likely to make sure the NCR wants revenge versus folds like a pair of twos.

The NCR may also be energized in fighting Caesar's Legion.
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NCR isn't WW2 USA who can throw money at enemies until they die, they're already all slowly dying from heaps of issues.

Its more likely to demoralise them and cause them to fall back.
 
Also, their leader died right under their nose at their most fortified location. If someone managed to kill their leader even while under tight security then they already lost. Was it an assassin? their security is weak. Was it a spy pretending to be one of them? Who else might be a Spy too? Was in accident? (Bear Force 1 gets sabotaged) then luck is just not on their side. Was it a fuck up? (The howitzers shoot down Air force 1) then they are not prepared at all.

They are already on a very precarious state, overstretched and paranoid, losing moral at a pivotal point would be the worst.
 
CT Phipps said:
Well it does nothing because Kimball is a complete failure as a President and leader who appoints incompetents. Martyring him is also likely to make sure the NCR wants revenge versus folds like a pair of twos.

The NCR may also be energized in fighting Caesar's Legion.
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Actually it is stated that pretty much everyone in the NCR does not want this war to continue, but Kimball is the one pushing for it. If Kimball dies the NCR will get a new president and will probably stop this war and focus on strengthening the NCR instead of expanding.
 
Risewild said:
but Kimball is the one pushing for it. If Kimball dies the NCR will get a new president and will probably stop this war and focus on strengthening the NCR instead of expanding.
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Kimball is one part of this expansionist push for war. Cassandra Moore and General Lee Oliver (probably along with a number of other politicians in the NCR) are probably part of it too.

In a way, it would be better for the NCR if Kimball actually did die though not for the short term of the NCR-Legion War. It would put a halt on the plans to expand further.
 
1. If Kimball dies while the Courier serve the NCR = the Courier is an incompetent fuck whose presence in the NCR would indeed changes nothing. With all the Legion did before the Courier enter the stage, by default the Legion would win the Second Battle for Hoover Dam.
2. If Kimball dies while the Courier serve the Legion = all is going well as planned for the Legion.
3. If Kimball dies while the Courier serve Mr. House = NCR wins the Second Battle for Hoover Dam thanks to the help of House's Securitrons, but getting kicked out of Mojave. In this scenario, House predicted that Kimball would be proclaimed a martyr to the NCR, the NCR would then "licks their wounds", regroup their forces, boycott New Vegas, and would challenge House one day. New Vegas boycotted by the NCR = no caps flowing into the Strip = House lose all resources necessary to progress his reign. (see House's dialogue when asked by the Courier why he wants Kimball to live)
4. If Kimball dies while going Independent Vegas = nothing explicitly stated or implied, but most probably resulted in the same way you serve House.

Yeah, right, Kimball killed won't change anything.
 
Mister House says that if Kimball dies, he'll become a martyr and expansion will continue.

He also says if Kimball survives but they fail to take Hoover Dam, his entire faction will be discredited.

Basically, it's not in Caesar's best interests to kill Kimball if he wants the NCR to write off the Mojave until he's ready to take them on.
 
CerberusGate said:
Kimball is one part of this expansionist push for war. Cassandra Moore and General Lee Oliver (probably along with a number of other politicians in the NCR) are probably part of it too.
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But those two only hold any power due to President Kimball. Oliver for example he owes his command to "knowing the president" (like Boone says), many in the NCR see him as an idiot and wouldn't support him at all (they call him "General Wait and See").
Without Kimball General Oliver would lose a lot or all of his influence and Colonel James Hsu would probably become a general too (Boone says it is only be cause of Oliver's doings that Hsu isn't a general yet), and he doesn't support the war, he considers it a waste of NCR lives.
Cassandra Moore would be loyal to the new president's orders even if she wanted to retain the Dam, she is just a commander, she doesn't really have any political influence/power.

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CT Phipps said:
Mister House says that if Kimball dies, he'll become a martyr and expansion will continue.
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No, Mr House does not say that the NCR will continue it's expansion, it actually hints that they will not:
COURIER: So why don't you want the NCR President to die?
MR. HOUSE: {Oh, the burdens of intelligence} Kimball's entire political career is inextricably bound up with the NCR's occupation of the Mojave. It's his war.
If I compell the NCR to retreat, Kimball will be the sacrifice offered to the gods, so decent NCR citizens can get on with their lives.
In retrospect, the Mojave and Hoover Dam will seem like one man's misadventure. Kimball will be blamed, not me. Not New Vegas.
COURIER: And if Kimball were to be assassinated?
MR. HOUSE: Then the Hero of the Mojave would become the Martyr of Hoover Dam. And when, subsequently, I force the NCR to retreat...
They lick their wounds, and dream of righteous vengeance against New Vegas. Hello, embargo, farewell, tourist economy.
I've calculated and re-calculated these probabilities. Kimball must live.
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So Mr. House says that the NCR would make a embargo with New Vegas (block trade/tourism). Which is actually proof that Mr. House thinks they wouldn't try to conquer the Mojave anymore. Embargo = Diplomatic relations, not conquest.
 
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That's if House forces them to retreat rather than Caesar's Legion. They still win the Battle of Hoover Dam in that scenario.
 
CT Phipps said:
That's if House forces them to retreat rather than Caesar's Legion. They still win the Battle of Hoover Dam in that scenario.
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Which shows that even if the Legion wins, without Kimball there are good chances that there will not be another Mojave war.
If House would become the villain if he kicks out the NCR, and Kimball dies and they wouldn't come to conquer New Vegas after him, why would they come to conquer the Mojave if Kimball dies and the Legion wins (which is even more powerful than Mr House's forces)?
Without Kimball chances are that the NCR will "turtle" down, they will stop trying to expand, call all their troops home and prepare a defense plan.
Again remember that most people do not like this war and hate Kimball for keeping wasting NCR soldier's lives.
 
Risewild said:
But those two only hold any power due to President Kimball. Oliver for example he owes his command to "knowing the president" (like Boone says), many in the NCR see him as an idiot and wouldn't support him at all (they call him "General Wait and See").
Without Kimball General Oliver would lose a lot or all of his influence and Colonel James Hsu would probably become a general too (Boone says it is only be cause of Oliver's doings that Hsu isn't a general yet), and he doesn't support the war, he considers it a waste of NCR lives.
Cassandra Moore would be loyal to the new president's orders even if she wanted to retain the Dam, she is just a commander, she doesn't really have any political influence/power.
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True. If Kimball falls from grace, the NCR's expansionism would probably stop based on unpopular Kimball is based on NV. Perhaps the group of like-minded people may fizzle out too if Kimball's approach becomes too hated by NCR proper though said people would probably stick around in the administration biding their time to try again (though probably not in their lifetime if Kimball did become a scapegoat in a NCR retreat ending).
 
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