I enjoyed Oblivion way more than Fallout 3

Necropolis said:
I believe Fallout 3 is better than Oblivion because of things like Random Encounters (which made wandering interesting and un-predictable), the more common hidden areas/easter eggs to be found in the Wastes, and the fact that almost every location was unique and had a backstory or theme to it such as a Raider Outpost or abandoned company building. In Oblivion each cave/fort/ruin was a copied and pasted hastily created bland enviroment which got repetitive very quickly. But there are many other reasons to like FO 3 more.

But apparently I'm one of the rare ones that both owns and enjoyed Fallout 1+2, 3, AND Oblivion. What I want to know is what would you guys have wanted Fallout 3 to be? You guys complain that all you have to do is run backwards in FO 3 while shooting until you kill the enemy, but the exact same thing can be done in Fallout 1 and 2, move back+shoot, repeat. Those of you who say the guns needed iron sights are totally wrong. The guns were designed to become more accurate with skill so iron sights wouldn't have worked. The bullets were never meant to take the same flight path because it's still an RPG, not a FPS. Others claim that you can shoot a enemy in the head and it won't die; exact same thing can happen in FO 1 and 2.

And as far as Fallout 3 being a JRPG: are you kidding man? The game has no trendy kids with spiky hair, the game is not LINEAR by any means AT ALL. If you think FO 3 is linear then I can only imagine what you think Fallout 1 and 2 were, where there was no Wasteland to openly roam; only travel across from city to city.

Fallout 1+2 had many flaws. I know I'm not the only one who noticed that your ability to survive in the beginning of the game was based purely on luck. You could either run into a molerat or 6 raiders with automatic weapons just traveling to your first town from the vault . Not cool, frustrating. Fallout 3 doesn't have that pacing issue. Fallout 3 was at least a completed game, Fallout 2 had to be completed by a fan who made a mod. Stop being so bitter guys Fallout 3 is a really good game, if you give it a chance with an open mind you'll find its an enjoyable experience with great graphics and many options for making a character however you want it to be. SORRY FOR THE LONG POST!

That post made me lol. I enjoyed F03 more than Oblivion, too, but that's not a compliment now is it? Did you really complete FO and Fo2 or did you just say that to give yourself some respect and credibility? Please do not compare FO3 combat with the previous games from the series as Failout battles provided absolutely no challange for the player even on very hard. "game is not LINEAR AT ALL" another sentence thad made me laugh hard. The game shows you exactly what direction you're supposed to go, what creature/person/alien(lol) kill, what computer/thing activate.
You're right Failout is nothing like jRPG. jRPGs sometimes bless us with interesting story and characters (rarely but it does happen, OK?) whereas FO3 dialogue and story suck balls. Don't even get me started on the crappy replayability of the product.
Running into Enclave Patrol or Frankie Horrigan in FO and FO2 was what made the wasteland feel dangerous and real. The fact that you point out "great graphics" is hopeless. Well what can I say, **3 fails both at being an FPS and RPG. The only things that make it partially bearable is some mods but you're screwed anyway if you completed the game without them because you'll be bored as hell the next time.
 
hehehe lemme add my opinion too:

but the exact same thing can be done in Fallout 1 and 2, move back+shoot, repeat

hmm no? unless you cheat and gave yourself huge amounts of AP you cant shoot and run, or you shoot or you run.

almost every location was unique and had a backstory or theme to it such as a Raider Outpost or abandoned company building.

also wrong, probably 75% of all locations of fallout 3 are mindless dungeon crawlers (which SUCKS)

Those of you who say the guns needed iron sights are totally wrong. The guns were designed to become more accurate with skill so iron sights wouldn't have worked. The bullets were never meant to take the same flight path because it's still an RPG, not a FPS. Others claim that you can shoot a enemy in the head and it won't die; exact same thing can happen in FO 1 and 2.

then why the %#¨@# they use first person perspective? and in FO1 & 2 you dont see the bullet going RIGHT into the enemy forehead, so you can assume you missed the head or something, but in F3 you see it CLEARY going to the head

the game is not LINEAR by any means AT ALL.

lol as sydney said, so you probably find that mindless exploring and killing is fun :roll:

Fallout 1+2 had many flaws. I know I'm not the only one who noticed that your ability to survive in the beginning of the game was based purely on luck.

pure luck? i guess you really never played fallout 1 & 2, and in any way at least that is reallistic, because in F3 you can go against super mutants unarmored and still win (on very hard)

Fallout 3 was at least a completed game, Fallout 2 had to be completed by a fan who made a mod.

fallout 2 was good enough so the fans would have the will to do mods to put the cut stuff back in, F3 is in no way a "complete game" because it lacks a good storyline and dialogue.

Stop being so bitter guys Fallout 3 is a really good game, if you give it a chance with an open mind you'll find its an enjoyable experience with great graphics and many options for making a character however you want it to be.

lol, thats exactly what fallout lacks, "many options for making a character however you want it to be", tried to make a evil and good character? probably not because if did you could notice there is no diference at all

thats my 2 cents :|
 
That post made me lol. I enjoyed F03 more than Oblivion, too, but that's not a compliment now is it? Did you really complete FO and Fo2 or did you just say that to give yourself some respect and credibility? Please do not compare FO3 combat with the previous games from the series as Failout battles provided absolutely no challange for the player even on very hard. "game is not LINEAR AT ALL" another sentence thad made me laugh hard. The game shows you exactly what direction you're supposed to go, what creature/person/alien(lol) kill, what computer/thing activate.
You're right Failout is nothing like jRPG. jRPGs sometimes bless us with interesting story and characters (rarely but it does happen, OK?) whereas FO3 dialogue and story suck balls. Don't even get me started on the crappy replayability of the product.
Running into Enclave Patrol or Frankie Horrigan in FO and FO2 was what made the wasteland feel dangerous and real. The fact that you point out "great graphics" is hopeless. Well what can I say, **3 fails both at being an FPS and RPG. The only things that make it partially bearable is some mods but you're screwed anyway if you completed the game without them because you'll be bored as hell the next time.

Yes, I did really play and complete Fallout 1+2. I admit playing FO 3 on very hard was still easy, but only once you had gotten to level 15-20. I stopped because I got tired of simply holding the trigger down longer than usual which made combat too silly. What exactly is bad about the graphics in 3? Being able to see an enemies skull scattered on the floor? The mud on your boots when wearing leather armor? The reflection of the sun off of your power armor and assault rifle? Although the same cannot be said for the animation, the graphics are gorgeous. I suppose seeing a blue shape with what appears to be two skinny protrusions (legs?) and a brown circle for a face is better isn't it? I play FO 3 on the 360 so no mods and I've made several characters and I still play the game.

To BR4ZIL: I took the Bonus Move, and Bonus Rate of Fire perks with the Fast Shot trait and I was able to do exactly as I said you could. Dunno about you.

I'm sure that "probably 75%" is the result of you not having explored through the game and not caring to take notice of what was around you.

Uh because Bethesda does the same 1st person perspective with the rest of it's games? People like feeling in control, not like they are guiding puppets around. And sorry man, I'm not seeing how you can "Assume the bullet missed" when you aim for the head in Fallout 1+2 and text notifies you of how much damage you inflicted.

Both of you: The game allows you to go and do whatever you want to do right out of the vault; we call that non-linear. I'm playing a hermit character right now that doesn't buy from merchants and lives in a subway tunnel without even doing most of the quests. Nowhere does it force you to follow the story, if you do so and complain that you know where to go because of it then that's your problem. What are they supposed to do, make players confused and lost? If you guys have such a problem with linearity then don't play Fallout 1 or 2. Like that game doesn't tell you where to go or what to do? "Go find a water chip, go kill these scorpions in this cave, go repair this machine, help either me or the crimelord or have nothing else to do in this town, etc".

Back to BR4ZIL: Played it with all the gear I had available, a pistol. You saying that running up to super mutants unarmored in fallout 3 is playing it realistically?

Lacks dialogue where? Did you miss the hundreds of conversations with the inhabitants of Fallout 3 and dozens of speech challenges? Wtf? Just because there's no cutscene with piano music and dynamic lighting in the background you can't say there's no dialogue.

There is indeed a difference playing evil/good characters. Evil or Good choices you make will close or open doors in future quests and can even change locations permanently, you will only be able to recruit a companion that agrees with your moral alignment, you will be given different rewards or no reward at all after quests depending on whether your actions were good or evil, if you see a merchant/wasteland doc/hunters/wastelanders you can kill them for supplies if you are evil; you can't do that and maintain a good karma level. I sho does rest mah case.

And if you play the GOTY edition with the new add-ons you will find the new enemies are surprisingly challenging; forcing you to set traps or take cover while fighting. And the random encounters are much more than people running up to you asking you to disarm their slave collars. There are wandering hit squads, Enclave vertibird drops, UFO's exploding overhead, and much more. You can search wiki for all the randoms in the game if you are interested.

That's my 10 cents.
 
Necropolis said:
Uh because Bethesda does the same 1st person perspective with the rest of it's games? People like feeling in control, not like they are guiding puppets around. And sorry man, I'm not seeing how you can "Assume the bullet missed" when you aim for the head in Fallout 1+2 and text notifies you of how much damage you inflicted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVGoodHVeAc
Watch this from 1:00. Don't watch the whole video though, the shitty voice acting may cause brain damage.

All will be explained.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVGoodHVeAc
Watch this from 1:00. Don't watch the whole video though, the shitty voice acting may cause brain damage.

All will be explained.

Aren't youtube links against rules here? Well anyways thanks for the vid. Looks like her Big Guns skills is really low, to have to shoot a civilian several times in the head for him to die. The minigun does poorly in VATS though, as does the shotgun.

And lets be very honest with ourselves here. Let's say all headshots were one-hit-kills. Ammo would become useless, aiming would become un-necessary as spraying the upper body would suffice, and combat would be very boring. That's not even including VATS, which is just ridiculous if you combine the two together.

If the minigun was extremely powerful the second you found one, what need would there be to improve your Big Guns skill, or use any other weapon ever again for that matter?
 
Necropolis said:
What exactly is bad about the graphics in 3? Being able to see an enemies skull scattered on the floor? The mud on your boots when wearing leather armor? The reflection of the sun off of your power armor and assault rifle? Although the same cannot be said for the animation, the graphics are gorgeous.

The graphics are pretty shit on a 360 and barely passable on computer. If your a console player, you might be accustomed to poor quality imaging, but some of us have seen what a powerful machine can produce. Fallout 3 does not have good graphics. Better than FO1 and 2 yes, but not "Gorgeous" by any means.

Secondly, the dialogue is terrible. Just because it has hundreds of lines spoken, doesn't change the fact the emotions sound forced and the lines are delivered unrealistically. Not to mention the NPC stand completely still while delivering the lines, which is a bit of a immersion killer in a 3D engine.

Finally, lol @ Good and evil. Compared to the original, the good/evil choices barely impact you in Fo3 and even when not compared, barely impact the game, megaton turning into a crater aside. You know, i would have thought that blowing up a city would earn a little notoriety, but apparently the folks at rivet city are thrilled to see you.

And yeah, the Goty edtion. I guess those aliens would make a real challenging fight :roll:
 
Aphyosis said:
The graphics are pretty shit on a 360 and barely passable on computer. If your a console player, you might be accustomed to poor quality imaging, but some of us have seen what a powerful machine can produce. Fallout 3 does not have good graphics. Better than FO1 and 2 yes, but not "Gorgeous" by any means.

Secondly, the dialogue is terrible. Just because it has hundreds of lines spoken, doesn't change the fact the emotions sound forced and the lines are delivered unrealistically. Not to mention the NPC stand completely still while delivering the lines, which is a bit of a immersion killer in a 3D engine.

Finally, lol @ Good and evil. Compared to the original, the good/evil choices barely impact you in Fo3 and even when not compared, barely impact the game, megaton turning into a crater aside. You know, i would have thought that blowing up a city would earn a little notoriety, but apparently the folks at rivet city are thrilled to see you.

And yeah, the Goty edtion. I guess those aliens would make a real challenging fight :roll:

Well no I'm not rich so I don't have a super gaming PC nor do I know how to build one of my own, so as far as I'm concerned the 360 has the best graphics I've seen so far.

He only said dialogue, the voice acting is a whole different story. Bethesda needs better voice actors. Just because their voices are unique doesn't mean they know how to express emotion so I agree. I feel I could do a better job and I have no experience at all. The voice acting in Bethesda games is one of the worst aspects in all their titles.

They don't really stand still anymore though, they at least have hand gestures and their eyes don't stay permanently fixed on your character when they speak.

Megaton isn't the only location that changes based on quest choices. Tenpenny Tower and Big Town do too; and if you have Broken Steel so does The Citadel. Was the good/evil system in Fallout 1+2 really better? Because as far as I remember the karma system in those games didn't effect anything or at least didn't catch my attention even once through both games. Can you provide some examples of it's superiority?

And please; the sarcasm is hardly effective when only mentioning one of the new enemies-and the weakest at that. The tough enemies are the Albino Radscorpions, Feral Reavers, and Super Mutant Overlords...the mutated hicks in Point Lookout and even the tribals are also tough. Even though the Enclave Hellfire Troops are frustrating to fight they too are very strong.
 
Necropolis said:
Well no I'm not rich so I don't have a super gaming PC nor do I know how to build one of my own, so as far as I'm concerned the 360 has the best graphics I've seen so far.

An 1000 Dollar Aus, or 800 Dollar USD Computer would kick the shit out of a 360 power wise.

Necropolis said:
He only said dialogue, the voice acting is a whole different story. Bethesda needs better voice actors. Just because their voices are unique doesn't mean they know how to express emotion so I agree. I feel I could do a better job and I have no experience at all. The voice acting in Bethesda games is one of the worst aspects in all their titles.

The dialogue could use a rework as well. A lot of it is corny and/or poorly written.

Necropolis said:
Was the good/evil system in Fallout 1+2 really better? Because as far as I remember the karma system in those games didn't effect anything or at least didn't catch my attention even once through both games. Can you provide some examples of it's superiority?

Becoming a slaver meant the game world reacted entirely differently. Some people refused to talk to you at all and a few factions would shoot on sight. This occurred over the entire game world. Being a child killer would have a similar effect, with numerous NPCs refusing to help you and a variety of other consequences. On the good side of things, becoming a NCR Ranger would immediately have the cooperation and good manners of the redding sheriff. Killing a patrol in the wastes would result in that faction disliking or even being hostile towards you in town. These are game wide, sweeping changes that impact your playthrough, not the "Haha, i blew up megaton, but these people are perfectly happy to trade and talk to me" crap FO3 pulls.

Necropolis said:
And please; the sarcasm is hardly effective when only mentioning one of the new enemies-and the weakest at that. The tough enemies are the Albino Radscorpions, Feral Reavers, and Super Mutant Overlords...the mutated hicks in Point Lookout and even the tribals are also tough. Even though the Enclave Hellfire Troops are frustrating to fight they too are very strong.

Are we talking in Fallout 3 terms or games in general, because you know Fo3 has a lulzy difficulty level.
 
Aphyosis said:
Are we talking in Fallout 3 terms or games in general, because you know Fo3 has a lulzy difficulty level.

Yeah it does I can't defend the fact that it's not hard. Though that has never kept me from enjoying the game, which is saying a lot really because all other games that fail to challenge me don't even get completed.

Which brings me to something I actually HATE about Fallout 3. Sure in Fallout 1+2 you could heal and reload etc. all in one inventory visit during combat, but in FO 3 you can stim as many times as you want with nothing to stop you. I wish you could only use a certain number of stims at a time like the "4 potion" rule in Oblivion, or that stimpacking could be done in VATS with a cost of AP. The best thing to do would have been adding an animation to stimpacking so you'd be vunerable during combat, sort of like the NPC's and followers have.

So I guess I've taken this thread far enough off topic by now. I'll try to keep it from being a FO3 vs 1+2 from here on out.
 
Maybe someone should write a kind of FAQ about this stuff. As far as I can see, every point that has been named and adressed here now on the last few pages, has been "discussed" already thousands of times.
 
Necropolis said:
Well anyways thanks for the vid. Looks like her Big Guns skills is really low, to have to shoot a civilian several times in the head for him to die. The minigun does poorly in VATS though, as does the shotgun.
Doesn't... really... excuse the fact that 40+ 5mm bullets went straight into an old man's head. And he survived it.
 
Reconite said:
Necropolis said:
Well anyways thanks for the vid. Looks like her Big Guns skills is really low, to have to shoot a civilian several times in the head for him to die. The minigun does poorly in VATS though, as does the shotgun.
Doesn't... really... excuse the fact that 40+ 5mm bullets went straight into an old man's head. And he survived it.

The ammo count went from 221-197. That's 24 rounds, as each action in VATS with the minigun is 8 bullets. I've seen that person's videos before; he/she plays on Very Hard all the time. Play on Very Hard with low BG skill and that's not hard to do. Turn the difficulty to normal and I can shoot Herbert Daring Dashwood's head off with one shot from a hunting rifle with only 40 in Small Guns.
 
Necropolis said:
That's 24 rounds
Oh right, so if I shoot 24 5mm bullets into an old man's head (with the firing rate and force of a Minigun) he won't die?

Sense. This makes none.
 
Reconite said:
Necropolis said:
That's 24 rounds
Oh right, so if I shoot 24 5mm bullets into an old man's head (with the firing rate and force of a Minigun) he won't die?

Sense. This makes none.

It makes sense when you remember the game is being played on Very Hard, there's supposed to be incentive to raise your skill levels, and that Bethesda has said time and time again that FO3 is a RPG with FPS elements, not a FPS. Headshots are for Call of Duty.

Adding extra damage to hits for striking the head is the best thing they could have done. So I know I feel like turning this around on you.

How come I can shoot raider's with no headgear whatsoever in the head with a shotgun 3 times and they don't die, huh? Sense; it makes none. HOW COME?
 
The only way it makes sense is when you squeze "the higher your level the higher your damage with the sword" system they used for Oblivion in to a setting like Fallout which never worked that simple.

many argue that in Fallout many times a head shoot would not kill most targets as well. Which is somewhat true. But thats out of context. Most of the time you had to pass a certain situation. We are talking about PnP rules here. For the case you do hit the head of the enemy its most of the time critical. In Flatout 3 by Beheslop you see many times stuations where enemies take half of your magazine in the head. In Fallout 1 or 2 you can take out even very strong creatures with well aimed shoots to the head or eyes even.

In F1 and F2 the damage of your weapons was not calculated by the skill of your character, his level only increased in some way the chance of a succesfull hit particularly on distance which makes in my eyes a lot more sense then magicaly increase the damange of a 5mm bullet or something.
 
I'm sure that "probably 75%" is the result of you not having explored through the game and not caring to take notice of what was around you.

"i'am sure that..." FAIL, i used tmm 1 cheat and went to every location on the map, and i could say that even 80% of them are dungeon crawlers

Uh because Bethesda does the same 1st person perspective with the rest of it's games? People like feeling in control, not like they are guiding puppets around.

thats YOUR opinion, so dont think "people" think like you, i for one got myself "involved" with FO1 and FO1 much more than with FO3

The game allows you to go and do whatever you want to do right out of the vault; we call that non-linear. I'm playing a hermit character right now that doesn't buy from merchants and lives in a subway tunnel without even doing most of the quests.

oh sure so i could say the same thing for GTA or alike, HELLO?, we are talking about the quests here, the quests are too damn linear and dont have any impact in the storyline

Played it with all the gear I had available, a pistol. You saying that running up to super mutants unarmored in fallout 3 is playing it realistically?

yes, i could call going against super mutants only with casual clothes realistic, try to do that in Fallout 1 or 2 and you will get your butt kicked, but in fallout 3,since the game is too easy, you can kick everyones asses with a teddy bear (sarcasm)

Lacks dialogue where? Did you miss the hundreds of conversations with the inhabitants of Fallout 3 and dozens of speech challenges? Wtf? Just because there's no cutscene with piano music and dynamic lighting in the background you can't say there's no dialogue.

oh yes, i forgot that there was dialogue in this game (sarcasm,again) well it might be because the dialogues are %@#$¨$#, and i dont need cutscene or piano music, just some dialogue that makes feel like i am in a wasteland (moira's voice comes to mind, ARGH!!!!)

There is indeed a difference playing evil/good characters. Evil or Good choices you make will close or open doors in future quests and can even change locations permanently, you will only be able to recruit a companion that agrees with your moral alignment, you will be given different rewards or no reward at all after quests depending on whether your actions were good or evil, if you see a merchant/wasteland doc/hunters/wastelanders you can kill them for supplies if you are evil; you can't do that and maintain a good karma level. I sho does rest mah case.

so your telling me that killing everyone in a certain location is a interesting change? sure blow up megaton,blow up the cidadel,kill everyone in tenpenny tower and let ghoul move in, please. The whole karma thing is retarded, why the fuck someone in rivet city should care if i stole something from someone in the republic of dave? and karma is something that people shouldnt really care in the wasteland. sure Fo1 and Fo2 had the karma thingie but didint had much significant impact in your actions (there is the slaver/childkiller thing, but thats another matter), so yes karma was better in F1 and F2

And if you play the GOTY edition with the new add-ons you will find the new enemies are surprisingly challenging; forcing you to set traps or take cover while fighting. And the random encounters are much more than people running up to you asking you to disarm their slave collars. There are wandering hit squads, Enclave vertibird drops, UFO's exploding overhead, and much more. You can search wiki for all the randoms in the game if you are interested.

i do have the GOTY edition and the addons are linear as ¨$#¨@¨#, the "new challanging" enemies means more shoot and run backwards (albino radscorpions) the UFO idea was freakin "stupid" to say at least and the enclave should have been already wiped out.

mister troll, stop diggin old topics so you can tell us how much you love fallout3, we dont care,go back to your Bethesda forums, we dont need another fanboy here
 
Lacks dialogue where? Did you miss the hundreds of conversations with the inhabitants of Fallout 3 and dozens of speech challenges? Wtf? Just because there's no cutscene with piano music and dynamic lighting in the background you can't say there's no dialogue.

The great amount of people uttering some mambo-jambo in your direction says nothing about the quality of the dialogue. So what if there were 10000000 conversations in the game if none is even remotely interesting.

There is indeed a difference playing evil/good characters. Evil or Good choices you make will close or open doors in future quests and can even change locations permanently, you will only be able to recruit a companion that agrees with your moral alignment, you will be given different rewards or no reward at all after quests depending on whether your actions were good or evil, if you see a merchant/wasteland doc/hunters/wastelanders you can kill them for supplies if you are evil; you can't do that and maintain a good karma level.

Oh, that's right the karma really does matter in the game. Another thing they flushed down the toilet as you can easily boost your karma by giving a water bottle to a bum. The difference between playing evil or good is at best little.

He's just a troll, no serious person can be this retarded.

I sadly concur. Please, Necro, put your caps where your mouth is and give some decent argument(s?) if you wish to continue this debate.
 
Karma in Fallout 1 and 2 is your general reputation, not some objective judgment over your actions. In Fallout 3, it tries to be an objective assessment of good vs. evil, which makes it very silly.
 
actualy if they would have at least cared to make it stronger and more important I could have eventualy even accepted karma in a way that it really changed the way people react toward you. But like some here already explained the fact how easily you could annul its effect in the game with stealing / donating-water-to-bums makes the way karma works in Flatout 3 pointless. I also havnt seen any NPCs refuse to give you quests based on your karma in Fallout 3 only a issue with companions which would eventualy refuse to follow you if you dont have a correct karma. But Since I have not played every quest I cant say if this is for every quest true. But I would say in the main quest at least it doesnt change anyting if youre playing a good or bad person. You could probably mass murder everyone in the citadel, loot the BoS soldiers, making a nice camp fire with the corpses sleep 3 days outside their door just to return later and watch the high Elder (Paladin) ask you to help them defeat the Enclave like never anything happend ... yeah right the game is not linear.

But I agree with most here if they should have changed something with Fallout 3 it should have been the removal of karma and replacing it completely with a complex form of reputation which involves somehow eventualy the indidivual imagination and view of NPCs. Why should everyone who is a "good" person dissagree with you when you kill a murder? Certain groups and comunities which have faced harsh times particularly by bandits and raiders will much faster agree in cruel punishments against such people compared to a communty in safety, health and more or less stabile leadership for example.

But that would have required a well thought out, complex network of comunities and inteligent NPCs design which neither is something Bethesda can do well.

Does anyone remember the "new innovative Radiant AI system" which allowed for more then thousand of not scripted NPCs ? I wonder where they have hiden them ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL8pyOP0VQI[/youtube]
 
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