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Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by The Dopamine Cleric, Feb 24, 2008.
Fairly sure BioWare did it.
i said it was as CLOSE to a modern day real time rpg as you can get. never said it was an rpg itself, if you arnt going to read my posts properly shut the FUCK up and don't comment.
No flaming. Develop your standpoint instead of typing obscenities in caps. This isn't Youtube.
I don't get his point either...What does it even mean to be "as close as you can be to a modern day real time rpg" ? How does it even apply to Tactics ?
Tactics was a tactical game with characters built RPG-style, but it lacks the depth of story or gameplay. It's about slaughtering dozens of diffrent enemies, with some read dialogue.
So it is a Diablo-type game.
Japanese RPGs and Western RPGs developed in a different enviorment with different consumers. They have nothing to do with each other than the vague "Role Play" element. I don't even think the word for Japanese Role-playing games translate into "Role Playing" correctly into English.
Problems with that are only due into incorrect labeling of "JRPG" "CRPG" "RPG" , ect.
And yeah, BIOWARE is to blame for letting those lines bleeding over without realizing the consequences themselves. I don't think they did it entirely on purpose though.
I tried Oblivion at my friends place when it came out for couple of hours and it seemed playworthy game until i heard of its rough level scaling. I ve heard theres decent mods for that nowadays, guess ill give it a try sometime. Its just it doesnt feel right to pay for a game that had such obvious and major flaw when released,
The main thing that made me hate Oblivion was the <s>dialogue</s> monologue system. Yeah, it was basically the same as in Morrowind, topic-based, but monologues were really poorly written, bland, uninteresting. Another thing I hated was the fact that besides some dungeons, the game was really deprived of any atmosphere due to its really generic design ( whereas Morrowind was pretty atmospheric ).
I've heard that Shivering Isles was somewhat interesting. Did you guys try it ? Is it worth something ?
I get the feeling it was Blizzard or at least the journalists covering Diablo. I'm not sure if Blizzard ever called Diablo a RPG, but it seems to be widely considered to be one.
Also, I think stat and/or skill progression is needed in the equation of useless things that makes a game instantly qualify as a RPG.
It's very pretty, but apart from that, it's just squandered potential.
Every time you try to talk to some NPC they just say something stupid that's apparently supposed to be 'crazy' and/or 'weird'.
NPC1: I'm HUNGRY! So HUNGRY!!
NPC2: Where are my forks?!
Me: Please excuse me while I shit my pants in awe of these well-written characters and this realm's incomprehensible madness.
There was this one dungeon where you had to make a band of adventurers go insane. That was kinda fun, but IIRC most of the funny stuff in there was unintentional.
In Oblivion, I got the same experience playing as a low-level character, as I did playing a high-level character, so stat and/or skill progression was useless and pretty much non-existant in that game. I mean, all you needed was a sword, some armour, and 1337 mini-game skillz and a set of eyes to take in all the hyped-up graphics. As I'm told, many others got the same experience as well, and yet it was still heralded as 'REVOLUTIONIZING RPG BEST EVAR'.
Tactics had a deep story to me that came close the level of the previous Fallout games but had shallow gameplay.
The thing about Tactics was that the story wasnt anywhere near as affected by the player's actions as it is in the other Fallout games except at the different endings where the wasteland takes completely different turns depending on which ending it was.
Although there were of course shallow parts of Tactics's story. I cant name any specific examples.
I am Glad that somebody also mentioned Diablo !
I remember when i first discovered Fallout through a demo cd back in 1997 .I went to everybody and said "Great Roleplaying game...blah blah blah ...Fallout" and most of them simply answered "Fallout ?!...blah blah blah...Roleplaying game ...Diablo !!!"
So most people back then where thinking that Diablo was the perfect Definition of a Roleplaying game !
I would rather blame Blizzard and Diablo for the way that rpg are nowdays...but also BioWare !
I blame Japan for destroying the rpg genre.
I blame gamers for having shitty tastes...
I have to agree with dopemine cleric. jrpg has pretty much allways been different kind of genre than crpgs.
Japan has nothing to do with the development of Western RPGs, darky, it doesn't work that way.
As for Diablo: yes and no. The thing was that Diablo was so far removed from the core of Fallout and the Ultima-generation in everything that - within the industry - it was generally seen as a hack & slash, and its definition as an RPG was a bit popular, but very transient and soon forgot.
Baldur's Gate posed as the next logical development in what RPGs should be. RPGs after Baldur's Gate tried to be like Baldur's Gate. Diablo had its clones, but it wasn't a point of emulation for all that came after.
And how about Ultima IX ? Was it a commercial success ? Because it sure does look a lot like Oblivion, Gothic 3, Two Worlds etc...
EDIT : nevermind, did a little bit of research. It had catastrophic reception.
You have to understand that when a company makes a game that bends the rules of normal RPG development, or any game genre for that matter, the change and focus of styles and implementations is not the fault of the mother company. The real evil lies with the ones who try to copy the games success, and flood the market with clones of the system. Bioware isn't the ones to blame for the change of RPGs, It is the other companies trying to emulate the success of Baldur's Gate by copying the system the game ran under. So technically, games like Icewind Dale are more to blame for the change of the RPG market.
That is primarily the reason for the success of the Elder Scrolls series.
It was a breath of fresh air in a market flooded with clones and cheap builds. That is why Oblivion was heralded as one of the best RPG's ever, a desenseitized consumer base.
diablo came out before fallout
The thing I dislike most about Oblivion is that it sounds like a highschool play written by the token emo kid. It's shallow, vapid, full of itself, full of cliches and unimaginative. The character depth and originality are absolutely insulting and the story is ridiculously simple. And the combat system sucks. Also, the level scaling. And the voices are god-awful.
The graphics are nice, though... Sometimes.