If you had to choose TWO things Fallout 4 did RIGHT, what would they be?

Irwin John Finster said:
MercenarySnake said:
Look nobody cares if you like the game, I mean hey that's great if you do and there are a few members that enjoy it around here too but they happen to understand its flaws. It's the "Fallout 4 is the best game in the Fallout series eva!" or "Fallout 4 is the best RPG with deeper characters and quests then 1, 2, New Vegas combined and innovates hardcore!" mentality.
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I don't think any normal person would have those opinions to begin with. Anyone claiming Fallout 4 is an RPG is an immediate troll and nothing else.
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I dont think anyone said the quests are deeper than anything. I just like walking around enjoying whats around and grinding. Earthbound zero style
 
Cooldawg86 said:
I just like walking around enjoying whats around and grinding. Earthbound zero style
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LOL if any of us were to take you seriously (which we don't), this statement of yours definitely proves everything we say about Fallout 4 is right and you're the exact target demographic for Fallout 4 because you like it as a hiking simulator and grindfest.
 
Well, I wrote a big ass post explaining things but NMA decided to fuck up and I lost it so fuck it.

I've seen far more improvements on the AI then I've seen fuckups.
It is the best Bethesda game to me because in comparison to Fallout 3, Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind I have the least to complain and bitch and whine about after 65 hours into the game. I also ain't judging it as an RPG or even a Fallout game. So the dialogue system being crap doesn't matter much to me. I just modded it and went on my way.

The end.

Fuck NMA's forum token expiration shit. 40 minutes down the fucking drain.

Heh, would you look at that. NMA's managed to piss me off more in an hour than Fallout 4 has in 65 hours.
 
Mr Fish said:
Well, I wrote a big ass post explaining things but NMA decided to fuck up and I lost it so fuck it.

I've seen far more improvements on the AI then I've seen fuckups.
It is the best Bethesda game
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I agree the AI in combat is the best it has ever been in a Bethesda game, but outside of combat it's still just as wonky.

I disagree with the second statement. Morrowind is the best Bethesda game, and Fallout 3 is superior to 4 due to that dialogue system.
 
Morrowind was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had and Fallout 3 barely had any RPG content and relied primarily on exploration and in that regard Fallout 4 blew it out of the water for me. :shrug:
 
Mr Fish said:
Morrowind was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had and Fallout 3 barely had any RPG content and relied primarily on exploration and in that regard Fallout 4 blew it out of the water for me. :shrug:
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It is very interesting to think about the massive change in priorities between Morrowind and Fallout 4. Morrowind had that infamous combat system which many hated, but was a good RPG overall.

Fallout 4 has much better combat, but no RPG. So it seems the priorities have completely reversed.
 
Mr Fish said:
Morrowind was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had and Fallout 3 barely had any RPG content and relied primarily on exploration and in that regard Fallout 4 blew it out of the water for me. :shrug:
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Wait a minute..so you dislike Morrowind but like Fallout 4?
 
TorontRayne said:
Mr Fish said:
Morrowind was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had and Fallout 3 barely had any RPG content and relied primarily on exploration and in that regard Fallout 4 blew it out of the water for me. :shrug:
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Wait a minute..so you dislike Morrowind but like Fallout 4?
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I think he doesn't understand what RPG is. maybe he thinks it has something to do with the shoulder mounted missle launcher?
 
TorontRayne said:
Mr Fish said:
Morrowind was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had and Fallout 3 barely had any RPG content and relied primarily on exploration and in that regard Fallout 4 blew it out of the water for me. :shrug:
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Wait a minute..so you dislike Morrowind but like Fallout 4?
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Maybe he likes Fallout 4 the same way he likes a mindless shooter? Where he disslikes Morrowind because it is not a deep role playing game - which, well it isn't to be honest, but at least Morrowind was a very unique game, which you can't say really about Fallout 4, Skyrim or Oblivion.
 
TorontRayne said:
Mr Fish said:
Morrowind was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had and Fallout 3 barely had any RPG content and relied primarily on exploration and in that regard Fallout 4 blew it out of the water for me. :shrug:
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Wait a minute..so you dislike Morrowind but like Fallout 4?
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Yeah? But there are reasons for why I dislike Morrowind and why I like Fallout 4.
Morrowind I treat as an RPG and even then it fails in so many ways to be enjoyable to me.
Fallout 4 I treat as a hiking gun and loot simulator and it performs well and is enjoyable to me.

Morrowind's combat is god awful. I love dice-rolls in RPGs but only if they take place from an isometric perspective and even then I prefer it to be in a semi-turn based or fully turn-based combat system. Real time first person (cause do not tell me that its third person combat is worth a damn) perspective with dice rolls? It was awful. I hated it so damn much. I hated how magic spells might not cast because my character's skill was too low. Fuck that noise. If you're gonna go first person real time then your skill should affect how well you perform the magic and not 'if' you can perform it, sure the skill can determine when you can learn how to cast a spell but I should be in need of healing in the middle of combat and then find out that oh, I failed to heal both times because fuck me. Then there was the damn staggering my character did when I attacked any human being. For some reason they're able to make me kneel down for no reason (it was not the stamina that caused it, I entered a place and attacked someone and her first hit caused my character to go "all right, gonna need a time-out...". The fog is just annoying, I can't fucking see where the hell I'm going and in a sandbox game where you need to navigate the world through memory and being able to spot iconic things in the distance to make sense of your location in the world the fog is just a slap in the face. Wouldn't be so bad if the damn map wasn't so blurry and impossible for me to make sense of but yeah. The menu's are all in the same window and I had to constantly move them around to get the best view out of each. The problem with the characters is that Bethesda has this idea for Elder Scrolls that every character but guards should be named. The problem with that is that that means you need to actually flesh out hundreds of NPC's. And did they? Not from my experience. In Morrowind we have a topic dialogue system and the NPC's end up regurgitating one another's paragraphs of text constantly. Look, I love a good dialogue system, but getting paragraph upon paragraph upon paragraph of text with no input from me beyond asking about a topic is not a good dialogue system.

I'll stop there. I could probably think up more reasons of why I loathe Morrowind but I feel that's enough to make my point clear that I did not enjoy it.

Now Fallout 4 on the other hand I do not treat as an RPG. So I don't care that the dialogue system is so limited. I don't care that your character is able to use every weapon in the game really well at level 1. I don't care that the stat system is a joke and that the perk system replaced the skill system. What I care about from Fallout 4 is that it is enjoyable on its own merits. And on its own merits it is performing really well. The combat feels smooth and tense. It is capable of constantly switching up the formula, forcing me to adapt to situations. It is difficult and I like that from a shooter. The traps are well placed and have spanked me sore dozens of times because I didn't pay enough attention. The "loot everything that isn't nailed down" is actually worth a damn this time around. It's sad that if you play on Survival you pretty much 'have to' loot everything to mod your weapons but at least they made looting a lot broader this time around. Almost every other location in Fallout 4 is interesting as it has some backstory tied to it or has a quest that relates to it so finding new locations isn't a chore to me, I genuinely look forward to the next location I get to muck around in. The overworld can sometimes be quite stunning despite its limitations and muddy textures.

I don't judge Fallout 4 on the same things I'd judge Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, Wasteland 2 or Morrowind on because it is not an RPG. Fallout 4 is not even a Fallout game. I'm not trying to justify what Bethesda's done or claim that it is the best RPG or Fallout game Bethesda's ever produced. I hate what Bethesda has turned Fallout into. I absolutely loathe it and I will toss feces like a baboon at them whenever I can when it comes to discussing their involvement on the Fallout IP. But I'm not playing Fallout 4 as a Fallout game. I'm not judging it as a Fallout game. I'm not saying it is the best RPG they've produced. I'm saying that as a game, simply as a game, not an RPG or a 'Fallout' game but just as 'a game'; It is the most fun one they've made.

Fallout 3 is a better RPG than Fallout 4 is. But it is not a more enjoyable game to me. Because while Fallout 3 is a better RPG than Fallout 4 it is still a shitty RPG. Same with just about any of their other titles. Skyrim was a horrible RPG and Oblivion was quite meh and Morrowind might very well be a good RPG but it is plagued by bad design decisions and shitty gameplay. So if I try to play Fallout 3 as a hiking gun and loot simulator then the game is really "meh...", if I try to play it as an RPG then it is really "meh...", if I try to play it as a Fallout game then it is really "oh for fucks sake!"

But when I play Fallout 4 as a hiking gun and loot simulator then the game is really damn fun.

I dunno about the rest of yall but RPG's aren't the only thing that exist for me. I can enjoy other types of games too and while I will still stand with yall when it comes to criticizing Fallout 4 as an RPG or as a Fallout game I will not stand with you when it comes to bashing it as a game on its own merits. Cause on its own merits I'm having a blast.

And oh my god the first time I entered the glowing sea? Amazing. Just plain damn amazing. The atmosphere, the aesthetics, the design, the way the music dropped and started to play that eerily distant kinda atmospheric music, the enemies I encountered, everything about it was... Well... It was probably the best design I've ever seen in gaming. The Glowing Sea is jaw-dropping to me.

TL : DR
Now then, to make things as clear as possible so that none of you misinterpret anything;

I don't think that:
Fallout 4 is an RPG
Fallout 4 is a Fallout game.
Morrowind is a good game.
Morrowind is well designed.

I do think that:
Fallout 4 is a great hiking gun and loot simulator.
Fallout 4 is well designed for what it aims to be (see line above).
Morrowind is a better RPG.
Morrowind is 'actually' an RPG in the first place.

Oh and Banestalker, I actually think that an RPG should focus around character skill over player skill. I think that an RPG should focus on giving the player choice and consequence when it comes to designing their initial character and how to continue to build their character as they progress through the game. I think that there are time when the player should be locked out of content because they lack the stat, skill, perk, trait, companion NPC, quest resolution or whatever to access it. I think that writing is incredibly important and that they need a good branching dialogue system where it feels like you're carrying out a conversation with an NPC and really good dialogue allows you to personify the PC through your dialogue choices. I think that RPG's should have multiple ending paths and that Fallout in particular has to have ending slides that show how you've impacted the world. I think that it is especially important for a lore-heavy game to be consistent to its setting and lore. I that RPG's need to allow the player the option to approach situations as they see fit, whether that is through combat, dialogue, stealth or anything else the stat/skill system provides.

And guess what? I don't think Fallout 4 succeeds at any of this. I have never stated otherwise. What I have stated is that I enjoy Fallout 4 on its own merits.

I know what a fucking RPG is, Banestalker.

And yes, Crni Vuk, I treat it mostly like that. I don't treat Fallout 4 seriously at all. It's like one of those films that are so bad that it is good. You just sit down, turn off your brain and go along for the ride. Hell, I just got myself a mod where I can put up erotic paintings around my settlements. I think that speaks volumes as to how little I care for taking Fallout 4 seriously. Morrowind tried to sell itself on being a good RPG and it failed for me. Not necessarily because of the RPG mechanics but rather because of the hybridization with first person real time design. If Morrowind took place from an isometric perspective and had Baldurs Gate or Fallout-esque combat then it might've been a lot more enjoyable to me. Well, and if they rewrote the damn dialogue system so it was a proper dialogue system and not just "Paragraphs Of Text: The Game". And I know I know, Elder Scrolls was always designed to take place from a first person perspective and have dice-rolls in combat; I don't care, I still think it is a moronic design.

And yeah, Fallout 4 isn't particularly unique either. It's a bastard hybridization of other games with the Fallout title sketched in with crayons. Fuck if I care though, I just double kneecapped a behemoth so it couldn't move and just laid there waiting for me to finish it off, I used console commands to change its scale to 0.1, then I used a Fatman to blow him up and saw his tiny body fly away, Team Rocket-style.

Like I said, I'm having a blast, and so was that Behemoth! :D
 
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Well praise Allah that we don't care about being popular then and that there are some studios out there who also cares little for it and cares more for creating art.
 
Yeah, if only Baldur's Gate had had a perks system, Black Isle might've been able to make some sequels. Oh, what might have been with an Icewind Dale or Neverwinter Nights game.
 
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