Impressions thread for negative impressions

Re: Just finished...What a waste of time.

DeadEye001 said:
I'm new, but I just wanted to respond to this. Look, it's obvious there's a predisposition to disliking Fallout 3. Fair enough. But that doesn't excuse some of the willful ignorance some of you folks are displaying here.

Sorry to dredge this up, but it's an excellent example of how not to argue in favor of Bethesda/"Fallout 3".

Don't start out by insulting. It adds nothing to your argument. If it's "fair enough" that some people have "a predisposition to disliking Fallout 3," - which is your opinion, not a fact - then there's no reason to mention it.

Accusing people of "willful ignorance" doesn't strengthen your argument. Instead, it allows people to assume you're lighting fires because you can't cite facts.
 
Re: Just finished...What a waste of time.

DeadEye001 said:
I'm new, but I just wanted to respond to this. Look, it's obvious there's a predisposition to disliking Fallout 3. Fair enough. But that doesn't excuse some of the willful ignorance some of you folks are displaying here.

I agree, I find it disingenuous and hypocritical to say that the people here have a predisposition to disliking Fallout 3, and also accuse us of willful ignorance. This is completely ignoring the fact that many people here played the game, invested several hours into it and found the game lacking, that in their honesty made the effort of describing their frustrations in better detail than I would have, as the OP and many others have done. I don't know if it is a deliberate insult on your part. Nobody here is going to fall for your trap dude.

I myself really really wanted to like the game and focus on it's positive points. But whatever this game has that redeems it from the numerous faults that it has, it is few and not important elements to constitute a good RPG. There is little saving grace to this game. It is not at all a worthy successor to Fo2. Hell I share the same sentiments the others have - I wouldn't even call it a Fallout game. It is self-imposed delusion to play down the numerous faults the game has, both as a RPG game and as a FO sequel.

I don't get why people even try to play devil's advocate for the game. What's the point? Everybody has presented good valid reasons for disliking the game. You add all those up and the sum verdict is obvious. Trying to defend a crappy game on one or two points of contention, and then having those few redeeming qualities that the game has as some sort of definitive that somehow proves the game is still great, and Bethesda has done a great job?

Statement: The Enclave is evil
Counter-argument: No, they are not, because A
Therefore, the story is still good
Therefore, the game is good

I like open-ended freedom
I think Fallout 3 gives me the freedom to explore and interact
Therefore, Fallout 3 is good

As to the latter, no the game only allows you freedom of graphically simulated physical movement and the freedom of interaction is limited. As for open-ended freedom itself, like choices and consequences, interaction with enemies other than shooting them in the head or pre-scripted sequences etc. are nil.

These are the same arguments I see on other forums populated by FO3 fans, in particular the Bethesda forums. They know the game has faults. They know Bethesda didn't do a good job as much as they should have. But they rely on this eeny weeny bits of saving graces and delude themselves into thinking that what they paid for out of their own pockets wasn't wasted. They also depend on and eagerly wait for mods to rescue the game from the depths of obscurity. At least I can admit the ugly truth that I did waste my money and time on this piece of shit. Bethesda sure fooled me.

Back then, when technology and resources for making games were limited, games didn't need mods. Fallout 1 and 2 certainly didn't need mods for us to enjoy the remarkable experience and fun we had playing these games. These games had bugs, nonetheless they were the whole package straight out of the box. Mods came only after the fact.

Which brings me something that has been bothering me recently: Am I the only one who thinks that today's gamers over-reliance on mods shows how far quality and creativity of games has gone down over the past decade? Maybe it will come to the point when game developers don't have to do much of anything anymore, and simply release sandbox templates and then have the people do whatever the hell they want, similar to writers not having to write a book but instead manufacture books with nothing printed on them, like notebooks and the people have all the damn liberty they want to do with it.

Not that I have anything against mods, but their original purpose was to enrich and extend the gaming experience, not supplant it. Maybe it has something to do with the self-interested mentality MySpace, Youtube or Facebook is unintentionally encouraging among kids these days. Too much self-interest. With the recent innovations which paved for the possibility of mods, the availability of the tools and ease of making them, and the prevalence of them maybe has contributed to the dumbing down of the quality and lack of dedication that game developers have over the games out on the market today.

Its amazing how gaming publications are contributing to this problem. I wondered if I was living in some fucked up parallel universe when I saw the overwhelmingly positive reviews for Fallout 3 with perfect scores and all that bullshit. A rating between 5 or 7 would have been reasonable.
 
If your analysis is that nobody can possibly disagree with you, J, yet people disagree with you, maybe there's something wrong with your analysis.

I don't call this a great game. I think it is a decent game. I don't compare it solely to Fallout 1 and 2. I find that irrational. I compare it to other things on the market currently.

I dislike the main quest. I dislike some of the arbitrary limits placed on being amoral in the game. I've enjoyed a number of the sidequests (though a few of them are mind numbingly stupid). I wish the books were actually books. I wish some more savage/adult things were allowed (GTA would go there) but I also recognize the pesky moral limits placed by the retail industry and ratings boards on 3dish gaming.

I don't play games towards finding fault with them. I play games towards me enjoying them. I've had a great time wandering the Wastes. I've had a great time not using fast travel. Sure, I've applied some mods, but I consider it on the level of people using cheat codes. If it is going to expand your enjoyment of something, why not?

I love chatting with my younger sister about this game and I love that she got interested in it enough to play Fallout 1 and 2. I love the fact that my roommates, guys who wouldn't normally look anything RPG like in the face and live for Madden and NCAA, really enjoy Fallout 3. Their enjoyment in 'going all Mad Max' is pretty entertaining. One of them's started talking about what he'd do if the Apocalypse came.

Ultimately what I liked about Fallout 1 and 2 was the feel, the dialogue, and what you were able to do. The system part of it was relatively forgettable. I like the feel of Fallout 3. The dialogue could use help... but in the grand scheme of things that is ultimately fixable, as are the system and what you can do with it. I wish the game was a 10... but I didn't actually expect it to be. As a 7 it isn't worth all the scorn that you and others heap on it. It isn't a 10...but it isn't the 3 or 4 of BOS. That's a huge step up for me.
 
After looking through numerous posts, I thought I might share mine here (Seemed appropriate)

Like you said lmoa, after waiting years for this to come, the first thing that hit me (and I'm still HIGHLY disappointed), no intro...

"War, war never changes......"

:(

Hell, I start fallout 1 and 2, just to listen to the intro story.
 
Corvin said:
...
I don't call this a great game. I think it is a decent game. I don't compare it solely to Fallout 1 and 2. I find that irrational. I compare it to other things on the market currently....
why is it irrationial to compare the sequel to the past games? Seriously. And oppinions aside, just about facts. I know one might not "like" to see it compared but as said why should it not been done?
 
10 years is eternity in gaming. Even if you're blind to the advantages it is a very different world.

...and the 'facts' line? Don't tell me you haven't thrown out quite a lot of opinion.
 
Re: Thread where people burn Fallout 3

3rdRate said:
I think it was in Paradise Falls. A girl was coming at me with a sword while wearing a pink dress. I had power suit armor and was blasting her away at point blank range with my minigun as she was hacking away mindlessly. And yet she was doing more damage than I was. That's about when I realized what a dumb f9cking game I was playing.

I just finished this, and I'm not going to bother with the black text. Major spoilers follow.

This game has zero plot, zero story, zero substance. It's not like an open-ended game that seems to have an infinite number of possibilities - this game has nothing close to that. What is the story again? Something about purifying water? It's about as interesting as Indiana Jones final revelation: "The treasure is knowledge! Knowledge is the treasure!" And an evil computer that's taken over an army to eradicate the wastes? And put the trusty ol' recycled FEV in the water supply? That's it? After all this, just a recycled F2 plot? I just careened through the end of the game post-Vault 87 in about 30 minutes or so - what a miserable act 3.

As a shooter, this fails. There are a billion better dumb mindless shooters out there whose game mechanics, graphics engines, and AI are far superior to this. So obviously I'm not playing this for a shooter. There must be something more to it, perhaps some level of intelligence?

Complaints:

1) No towns larger than the starter, Megaton (don't even try to suggest DC is a town) (Things that make you go "huh?" #1)
Hmmmm, what is that one town, Rivet City, located in? An aircraft carrier? A BIG aircraft carrier?
2) Why do I have to find an unowned bed to keep going back to sleep? Why can't I just [censored] sleep anywhere? And why, when I "wait," doesn't it count?? (Things that make you go "huh?" #2)
Because in Oblivion Wait was essentially an insta-heal.
3) If this is so open-ended, why can't I kill everyone I feel like? For example, in real life, when that douchey little kid tells me I can't come into the Lamp Light caves, I'd blow his f8cking head off.
We have no autocensor. No need to use numbers.. Anyway, the game would not be released because Bible Crazies (Not regular Christians mind you, they are pretty cool, but the Jack Thompson like dudes) would try to burn it.
4) Why do quests seems SO unfulfilling? Perhaps it's because of the zero sum gain you get out of it. My favorite miserable quest ending is when you find out that Lucy's brother ATE HER FAMILY (Things that make you go "huh?" #3,4,5,6,7) because he's got some sort of psychological condition, and has since joined a vampire clan, except they're not actually vampires, and they're not that bad either once you come to a deal, though it's important to note that they can only guard that town on the bridge when the sun is down, meaning they're pretty much useless (things that make you go "huh?" #8,9,10,11)...After all this, Lucy's final response is: "Holy Christ, my f9cking brother ATE my [censored] family? Holy God, life has lost all meaning!" Just kidding, of course. "Thank you for helping out. You've made a real difference." WHAT????

5) Religious fanatacism that's NEVER fleshed out. Those worshipers only exist in Megaton? Wow, creative. Just like the cults in F1 and F2 that presented a major adversary in addition to the main enemies.

6) Major, major PC version problems. The dumb game crashes all the time.
Hmmm, maybe your PC isn't so good. Otherwise, I can't refute this.
7) Was anyone really surprised when the president turned out to be a computer? I was waiting for my character to wake up and go "What a horrible nightmare!"
I wasn't because those douches from RPGCodex spoiled it for me while I was browsing their site. Spoiler tags are apparently unknown to RPGCodex.
8) Horrible horrible AI. My favorite experience was when the ultimate major huge enormous Super Mutant outside the radio station couldn't figure out how to get me as I shot him from under the platform, and just kept running at me like a runner on a treadmill. His expression was almost one of anguish at having to follow the terrible coding.
Gee, maybe because the platform is 12 feet high while he is 30 feet high, and the platform has a roof-thing on it?While the AI is obviously sub-par, what you did was more of an exploit.
9) A main plot that is thoroughly 1st draft. You're game is only as interesting as your antagonist. I have no idea why the Enclave is bad. Oh, sure, if I played F2, I'm fully aware how horrible and xenophobic they are, but in this game, you're basically asked to assume that the guys kidnapping you are bad. It's sort of like in Tomb Raider the movie, when the Illuminati want that bizarre clock-slowing-down device, but it's never explained why it would be bad if they get it. Oh, sure, they're they're Illuminati, and we know from past experience that the Illuminati generally want to do bad things. But is it that difficult to remind us how evil they are? Frankly, the Enclave doesn't seem to bother anyone but me throughout the entire game, and I can be pretty annoying at times.
I agree. I wanted to join Autumn. Autumn didn't want to kill just about everyone. He just wanted total dominance.
10) What the hell happened to thinking mutants? Besides Fawkes, the game is devoid of them.
Uncle Leo is another smart mutie, but apparently EEP-FEV (Which makes East Coast supermuties) has a lower smart mutie production rate then regular FEV.
11) Could anything be more mindnumbling boring than the DC run? Ground level, random supermutant attack, enter subway, random ghoul attacks, exit subways, run three blocks, random super mutant attack, down in the subways, random ghoul attacks, up above again, random supermutant attack....REPEAT TIL YOU SNAP GAME DISCS IN HALF.
Hmm, did you explore the landmarks, such as the Museum of Technology and the Lincoln Memorial? Those were fun.
12) If you're going to make a game without a single likable NPC, can you at least give us the ability to kill them?
The only essential NPCs I saw were the BoS Paladins and anyone related to the Main Quest.
13) Zero mystery. There is no mystery in this game whatsoever. You never get hints that something insidious is going down. You don't see the enclaves effects slowly building up across the wastes. Every single boring, mindless shoot-and-loot quest could have been made infinitely more interesting if there had been a connection to some greater whole. If the slavers were afraid of the enclave, for example, and were being hired to round up people for tests. Or if the supermutants were progressively getting more perfect as you get closer to the source. Nope, instead, it's a stationary world where nothing changes. Even the random tidbits on computers were generally boring. Never thought I'd say this, but the computer entries you occasionally read in Doom 3 were insanely more intriguing than anything in F3.
Wow, you really are hard to please. Did you do any exploring outside of the main quest? At all? Because I found some good computer entries out there.
14) I die at the end? Wow, nice and cliched. I don't even fully understand why I ran in and turned on the purifier. I mean, couldn't this wait? Couldn't we just take a breath, kill off every one in the enclave, make sure the water purifier is secure, get a decent radiation suit, and turn the thing on WITHOUT dying? And if this is the case, why couldn't I just send Fawkes in? He owes me one, right? What a dumb, dumb ending.
Agreed, but death at the end isn't really a cliche. It just sucks.
15) Why is the BoS so ghetto? They feel like a group of stragglers who seem to have slightly better tech than other people. Boring.
They have a giant conservative robot. That fires lasers that instakill people. How is that "slightly better tech"?
Additions in italics.
 
Here are some of my complaints with the game:

VATS: Some people say it gives them an unfair advantage; this isn't the case, normally, for me. Although it's nice to shoot and not take damage, I seem to hit a lot harder when I'm in control of my character. Despite the fact that he has a 90 in small arms and my being 2 feet away, I can't one-shot enemies with headshots using a combat shotgun in VATS, but I can if I am actually doing the aiming. The screwed up thing is that I suck with FPS games and am using a mouse hooked up to another computer networked to this one using "Input Director". I really shouldn't pwn shit in FPS mode.

Supermutants: Chumps. I beat them senseless with their own nailboards

Power-Armor: I have to join the BoS to figure out how to wear armor? This was total bullshit. How do I know how to use and reload a Plasma rifle, which are the sole property of the Enclave? How do I know how to disarm fucking MINES? I guarantee that wasn't in the training learned in my days at Vault 101. After wandering the wastes until about level 10 and not seeing any real increase in itemization, I decided I wanted power armor and skipped through main quest objectives until I joined BoS. The already unenjoyable game became total shit, here, because of the story.

Dialog: Generally, dialog was awful. When I was rushed out of the vault, the Overseer's daughter SPECIFICALLY told me to tell Dad she was sorry for everything. Including Jonas' death. When I meet dad and he asks, bewildered, why I wasn't in the vault anymore I have no option to tell him that the Overseer went insane. That's... sort of a big reason. Instead, it was something like "I was worried" or "The vault wasn't for me." Fucking juvenile writing and lacking any REAL impact on the story.

Ending: I don't know how many of you tried to run into the area where the GECK was while using power armor (of which, the radiation resistance garnered is almost nil) but the radiation here was far higher than it was at the purity center. If Fawkes could walk around unhurt in that area, why couldn't it do the same for turning on the purity machine?
 
Idiotfool said:
VATS: Some people say it gives them an unfair advantage; this isn't the case, normally, for me. Although it's nice to shoot and not take damage, I seem to hit a lot harder when I'm in control of my character. Despite the fact that he has a 90 in small arms and my being 2 feet away, I can't one-shot enemies with headshots using a combat shotgun in VATS, but I can if I am actually doing the aiming. The screwed up thing is that I suck with FPS games and am using a mouse hooked up to another computer networked to this one using "Input Director". I really shouldn't pwn shit in FPS mode.
With all due respect, this is a fallacy. You can in fact be damaged while shooting in VATS. The only unfair advantage VATS provides (and it is unfair) are instant headshots.
 
First off, I was looking forward to buying this game right after my exams where done. A lot. FUCK!!! I didn't care about what all the ppl trapped in their captivity of negativity thought about it, I knew I was gonna enjoy it. (I kinda liked oblivion for a while).

I'm just so extremly dissapointed. Because of my tiny laptop I had to buy it for PS3, but I don't know if that makes any difference. I came to Megaton before quitting the game.

$100 well spent. LOL.

edit: and an additional LOL for you caring enough to remove my ability to express myself the way I want to. What's next ppl?
 
We don't remove anything. We have word filters to encourage people to write properly.

Shattering Fast said:
You can in fact be damaged while shooting in VATS.

10% damage, that is.
 
Shattering Fast said:
With all due respect, this is a fallacy. You can in fact be damaged while shooting in VATS. The only unfair advantage VATS provides (and it is unfair) are instant headshots.

So only taking 10% (ish) damage in VATs isn't unfair?
Had to download a mod so I actually took any meaningfull damage when using VATS.

Edit: Curses, beaten to it again.
 
Nothing can compare FO3, to the old fallout's. The writing is different and the direction is different.

The games just arent comparable. I just hope Interplay can reassemble the team and create a worthy heir to the fallout name in Fallout Online.
 
Hmmmm, what is that one town, Rivet City, located in? An aircraft carrier? A BIG aircraft carrier?
Ok, TWO real towns. How many towns did Fallout have? How many towns did Fallout 2 have?

Why do I have to find an unowned bed to keep going back to sleep? Why can't I just [censored] sleep anywhere? And why, when I "wait," doesn't it count?? (Things that make you go "huh?" #2)
Because in Oblivion Wait was essentially an insta-heal.
Then Beth's wait/sleep system is inherently flawed. Why didn't they simply use the old Fallout model, which worked perfectly?

Gee, maybe because the platform is 12 feet high while he is 30 feet high, and the platform has a roof-thing on it?While the AI is obviously sub-par, what you did was more of an exploit.
That really isn't that hard to program, I don't think. Dues Ex had baddies that could shoot from the top of a metal grate platform to someone below (IIRC).

Uncle Leo is another smart mutie, but apparently EEP-FEV (Which makes East Coast supermuties) has a lower smart mutie production rate then regular FEV.
Maybe the developers did this because they were lazy? I mean, they did invent EEP-FEV, so it was their call.

Hmm, did you explore the landmarks, such as the Museum of Technology and the Lincoln Memorial? Those were fun.
I personally haven't explored those two locations yet, but so many more landmarks have been remarkable boring. Critter killing gets old quickly.

The only essential NPCs I saw were the BoS Paladins and anyone related to the Main Quest.
Plenty of games have main quest characters killable. There really isn't that much challenge in making alternative methods of finding information. E.g. In Arcanum, you can kill Gilbert Bates, a very important NPC, you can then loot his diary from a locked cabinet, giving clues on how to move on.
 
Re: Thread where people burn Fallout 3

Gentlemen said:
12) If you're going to make a game without a single likable NPC, can you at least give us the ability to kill them?
The only essential NPCs I saw were the BoS Paladins and anyone related to the Main Quest. (...)
That is not true. There are a lot of invisible NPCs in Fallout 3. Alone in the main hall of Rivet City you have at least 2. Then count all the kidz to it and you have a damn lot of "invisible NPCs". Same to the Citadel there you hav as well a few invincible NPCs NOT tied to your main quest.

(what is really funny though is that you can KILL EVERYTHING and whipe out the whole citatedl ... and 3-4 days later they still offer you help ... awesome bethesdian logic.)
 
too add to the burning pyre before our hate-filled glittering gem like eyes...

I made a char, just to check something in FO3

EN 1
ST 1
INT 1

being that I couldn't make a purely 1 stat char, i spread the points in the rest, and tagged shitty skills.

And my test, I went straight to Springvale school, and yes, yes I can still kill everything with easy (game on 'hard')

to the point wherein my EN 1 char stood in front of a combat shotgun wielding raider and punched him to death.

This helped satisfy one thing in my mind, I hate this game more now, the fun of exploring/critter killing is fading fast, and the glaring SHIT that is the game is now shining brightly.
 
danielje said:
Nothing can compare FO3, to the old fallout's. The writing is different and the direction is different.

The games just arent comparable. I just hope Interplay can reassemble the team and create a worthy heir to the fallout name in Fallout Online.

Interplay tend to screw up badly. How they could fall apart while having Black Isle on board I'll never know. They also had the best space sim franchise with Freespace and pissed that up as well.

Besides getting a quest to kill 20 radscorpions in location X and returning for a reward before getting another respawning quest to kill 10 supermutants at location Y while passing hordes of other questing PC's all over the wastes is not exactly how I would imagine a Fallout game to be.
 
cratchety ol joe said:
too add to the burning pyre before our hate-filled glittering gem like eyes...

I made a char, just to check something in FO3

EN 1
ST 1
INT 1

being that I couldn't make a purely 1 stat char, i spread the points in the rest, and tagged shitty skills.

And my test, I went straight to Springvale school, and yes, yes I can still kill everything with easy (game on 'hard')

to the point wherein my EN 1 char stood in front of a combat shotgun wielding raider and punched him to death.

This helped satisfy one thing in my mind, I hate this game more now, the fun of exploring/critter killing is fading fast, and the glaring SHIT that is the game is now shining brightly.

w00t, awesome, I have not been daring enough to make a STR1 character, cause it's the only stat that matters! But, I guess not so much really... Guess the stat sheet is just there for show. I knew that the skills were useless when I killed a Behemoth with a 10mm with 24 in small guns, but it's worse than that, huh.
 
Re: Thread where people burn Fallout 3

Crni Vuk said:
Gentlemen said:
12) If you're going to make a game without a single likable NPC, can you at least give us the ability to kill them?
The only essential NPCs I saw were the BoS Paladins and anyone related to the Main Quest. (...)
That is not true. There are a lot of invisible NPCs in Fallout 3. Alone in the main hall of Rivet City you have at least 2. Then count all the kidz to it and you have a damn lot of "invisible NPCs". Same to the Citadel there you hav as well a few invincible NPCs NOT tied to your main quest.

(what is really funny though is that you can KILL EVERYTHING and whipe out the whole citatedl ... and 3-4 days later they still offer you help ... awesome bethesdian logic.)
You mean "invincible". You had me confused for a second there.
 
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