DarkPhilly
First time out of the vault
Would area 51 be considered canon? Yes this post is short, but I have something going in my head and I'm trying to put some pieces together.
In terms of canon?
- Thread starter DarkPhilly
- Start date
First time out of the vault
Azrael-Arkangel
Still Mildly Glowing
Ravager69 said:
It's mentioned in the UFO special encounter, the one with the Alien Blaster.. if you examine the UFO it says something like "property of area 51" or something like that.
I don't think Area 51 wouldn't be such a problem, its perhaps something that became more 'known' later in our history but the idea of a top secret airbase where they test experimental planes and study captured aircraft doesn't conflict that much with games' Pre War history.
Just give it a different name if you don't like Area 51.
Just give it a different name if you don't like Area 51.
special encounters are iffy when it comes to canon. most easy is just to dismiss it.
but Area 51 could be part of FO lore. sure. i dont see why not. it just depends on how much is tastefully done and which is just pure crap.
but Area 51 could be part of FO lore. sure. i dont see why not. it just depends on how much is tastefully done and which is just pure crap.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Actually I think it would be a fine inclusion since it was being used in the '50s (U2 R&D).
Just don't put it full of dissected aliens, flying saucers and men in black, that's another game.
Dittersdorf
First time out of the vault
Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 are set somewhere in California. Don't forget that it's nowhere near where those games are set, if you're planning on just adding it as a location to a currently-existing map.
Vault Maker
Vault-Tec Cartographer
On the location: I've dorked around with the FO1, FO2, and Van Buren maps * and real maps using AutoCad, and I'm quite sure that Vault 15 on the FO1 map is about 1 cell north of Groom Lake (about 10-15 miles away). The Raiders location is between the ghost town/park of Beatty and Yucca Flat (where the US tested it's nukes).
Vault 15 on the FO2 map is near Florence Lake, in the Sierra Nevada mountains. In terms of places where people might be expected to resettle after the War of 2077, the FO2 locations of Vault 13, Shady Sands/NCR, and Vault 15 make more sense IMHO than the FO1 locations.
By the way, the FO1 map also has a slice of western Arizona, and even a tiny bit of northern Mexico.
On the idea: Flying saucer talk and "the Roswell incident" date from the 40s, and at the end of the 50s Pres Eisenhower warned us all about the creeping "military industrial complex". Timeline-wise it fits.
I'm ambivalent about aliens in FO, but high tech R&D...yummy. High tech R&D involving the military, bureaucrats, and corrupt/underperforming/profiteering corporations...totally consistent with the 50s (actually, ever since WW2), and totally consistent with the FO setting.
* I tried the Tactics map too...it's got real-map bits, but all cut-and-pasted together so I couldn't get it to work...not to make a dig at FOT, but there it is.
Vault 15 on the FO2 map is near Florence Lake, in the Sierra Nevada mountains. In terms of places where people might be expected to resettle after the War of 2077, the FO2 locations of Vault 13, Shady Sands/NCR, and Vault 15 make more sense IMHO than the FO1 locations.
By the way, the FO1 map also has a slice of western Arizona, and even a tiny bit of northern Mexico.
On the idea: Flying saucer talk and "the Roswell incident" date from the 40s, and at the end of the 50s Pres Eisenhower warned us all about the creeping "military industrial complex". Timeline-wise it fits.
I'm ambivalent about aliens in FO, but high tech R&D...yummy. High tech R&D involving the military, bureaucrats, and corrupt/underperforming/profiteering corporations...totally consistent with the 50s (actually, ever since WW2), and totally consistent with the FO setting.
* I tried the Tactics map too...it's got real-map bits, but all cut-and-pasted together so I couldn't get it to work...not to make a dig at FOT, but there it is.
Vault Maker said:
Poseidon Energy.
Back when I was really ambitious about creating something Fallout based I also worked on an idea for Area 51, I pretty much ignored all the alien conpiracies and went with the high tech R&D such as other posters on the forum have suggested.
I still hope I can one day actually do something with it, I think I had some fun stuff planned for fan fiction or a mod.
I still hope I can one day actually do something with it, I think I had some fun stuff planned for fan fiction or a mod.
DarkPhilly
First time out of the vault
Well basically I'm batting ideas around, for how the BOS got to the east.
It does contain a lil sci-fi junk but I usually think out loud so here goes...
The American Government prior to the Great War began research on physics and particle movement (or A51 was working on small particle movement implementations ). However when the "Bombs began to fall" Area 51 (or another incantation thereof) was a priority target for the Chinese.
An experiment which was currently ongoing in one of the various labs, was flooded with radiation; during which the particles grew to surround an entire room. Due to the composition of these particles and with the introduction of radiation, the particles became unstable and random.
Well you can guess the rest, Location of BOS in relation to Area 51 etc etc. Brotherhood investigates A51, Lyons (or whatever the fuck his name is) leads an expedition and they enter the research room. Feeling nauseous and their vision starting to blur, the radiated particles begin to play havoc on their cellular structure, shifting them in and out of phase with normal reality.
The randomized particles (in contact with the expedition) teleport them to DC (haven't worked out this part in entirety). As a result Lyons and some of his band, receive distinct brain chemistry abnormalities changing the way they think and act. While not all of the expedition are affected, only 25% are unharmed.
Thus we see the crazy Lyons going against everything the BOS stands for.
Yes this kinda sucks, yes its not done, yes I don't know jack shit about physics and particle movement, and yes This is a better story(than what Beth came up with) I came up with in under 20 mins while I should have been looking over TCP/IP notes. Meh
Any thoughts?
It does contain a lil sci-fi junk but I usually think out loud so here goes...
The American Government prior to the Great War began research on physics and particle movement (or A51 was working on small particle movement implementations ). However when the "Bombs began to fall" Area 51 (or another incantation thereof) was a priority target for the Chinese.
An experiment which was currently ongoing in one of the various labs, was flooded with radiation; during which the particles grew to surround an entire room. Due to the composition of these particles and with the introduction of radiation, the particles became unstable and random.
Well you can guess the rest, Location of BOS in relation to Area 51 etc etc. Brotherhood investigates A51, Lyons (or whatever the fuck his name is) leads an expedition and they enter the research room. Feeling nauseous and their vision starting to blur, the radiated particles begin to play havoc on their cellular structure, shifting them in and out of phase with normal reality.
The randomized particles (in contact with the expedition) teleport them to DC (haven't worked out this part in entirety). As a result Lyons and some of his band, receive distinct brain chemistry abnormalities changing the way they think and act. While not all of the expedition are affected, only 25% are unharmed.
Thus we see the crazy Lyons going against everything the BOS stands for.
Yes this kinda sucks, yes its not done, yes I don't know jack shit about physics and particle movement, and yes This is a better story(than what Beth came up with) I came up with in under 20 mins while I should have been looking over TCP/IP notes. Meh
Any thoughts?
Interesting, in my take Area 51 or 'Dreamland' was a top secret research facility where the US Government and later the Enclave and the various corporations such as Poseidon Energy, West Tek and Ball Aerospace (got that from Van Buren) were working on all kinds of secret hush - hush projects as well as new kinds of technologies such as computers, power generation and space travel.
The Chinese never learned of this place due to excellent counter-espionage.
An alternative someone later suggested to me is that the US Government/Enclave had moved all projects and research to another facility (a sort of 'Area 52') when they realised that the location of Dreamland had become to well known even if the Chinese never knew what was taking place there.
After the War the place still stayed as mysterious as it is now as people who went there never returned or came back in a severe deranged state.
Sort of 'Here there be dragons'.
The Enclave still knew of this place but only their top personnel was allowed to go there, none of the Enclave survivors knew of this place after their headquarters was blown up.
The Chinese never learned of this place due to excellent counter-espionage.
An alternative someone later suggested to me is that the US Government/Enclave had moved all projects and research to another facility (a sort of 'Area 52') when they realised that the location of Dreamland had become to well known even if the Chinese never knew what was taking place there.
After the War the place still stayed as mysterious as it is now as people who went there never returned or came back in a severe deranged state.
Sort of 'Here there be dragons'.
The Enclave still knew of this place but only their top personnel was allowed to go there, none of the Enclave survivors knew of this place after their headquarters was blown up.
Vault Maker
Vault-Tec Cartographer
When creating your own work, you can always decide that a high-priority asset like a military base was preserved by reasons besides secrecy and "dummy" installations:
Defensive systems - After the ABM treaty between the US and the USSR, each side was allowed a fixed anti-ballistic-missile capability. The Soviets deployed their system around Moscow. The US deployed theirs in the Midwest to protect (some) missile silos (btw that's real-world, not FO history). The prewar US in Fallout would have wanted to build some kind of defensive systems, and used them to protect leadership, military, and economic targets over the population. The various energy weapons developed right before the war are a good example. The first weapons of this type would probably be large and stationary, needing a big power source.
Partial destruction - even a high-priority target, if it's large (like the Nellis-Tonopah-Test Site is) likely has many discrete targets, and needs to be hit with multiple warheads. Some warheads don't go off or never arrive.
In the 1991 Gulf War, the US could try to bomb something, wait a couple of days for cloud cover to dissipate, check out the site by satellite or air, find that the target wasn't hit, and have to hit it again. Sometimes, even a third time or more. That was that "high-tech videogame war with smart bombs" that some of us may recall. Read the official history here, but only if you are a total geek:
http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/Publications/Annotations/gwaps.htm
Now imagine a two-hour all-out nuclear war. No time for BDA (bomb damage assessment) or re-attacking a target. You just fire it all, probably hitting targets multiple times (this could account for the level of destruction implied by Fallout). Even so, some targets would escape destruction. However, in the example of a large military base, the overall area would appear destroyed to anyone trying to go there, and be highly radioactive.
Remember that the whole complex that Area 51 is in is larger than many US states (and several European countries). There's lots of room for something to escape the bombs.
Whew. Time for a nap.
Defensive systems - After the ABM treaty between the US and the USSR, each side was allowed a fixed anti-ballistic-missile capability. The Soviets deployed their system around Moscow. The US deployed theirs in the Midwest to protect (some) missile silos (btw that's real-world, not FO history). The prewar US in Fallout would have wanted to build some kind of defensive systems, and used them to protect leadership, military, and economic targets over the population. The various energy weapons developed right before the war are a good example. The first weapons of this type would probably be large and stationary, needing a big power source.
Partial destruction - even a high-priority target, if it's large (like the Nellis-Tonopah-Test Site is) likely has many discrete targets, and needs to be hit with multiple warheads. Some warheads don't go off or never arrive.
In the 1991 Gulf War, the US could try to bomb something, wait a couple of days for cloud cover to dissipate, check out the site by satellite or air, find that the target wasn't hit, and have to hit it again. Sometimes, even a third time or more. That was that "high-tech videogame war with smart bombs" that some of us may recall. Read the official history here, but only if you are a total geek:
http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/Publications/Annotations/gwaps.htm
Now imagine a two-hour all-out nuclear war. No time for BDA (bomb damage assessment) or re-attacking a target. You just fire it all, probably hitting targets multiple times (this could account for the level of destruction implied by Fallout). Even so, some targets would escape destruction. However, in the example of a large military base, the overall area would appear destroyed to anyone trying to go there, and be highly radioactive.
Remember that the whole complex that Area 51 is in is larger than many US states (and several European countries). There's lots of room for something to escape the bombs.
Whew. Time for a nap.
If we're talking about a partly destroyed installation I myself am thinking of the possible underground sections of the base, a bit similar to the Vaults.
Vault Maker
Vault-Tec Cartographer
Ah, but there's plenty of space for surface buildings nestled in little valleys between the hills, protected from the worst.
Which reminds me, another original document:
The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
United States Army Corps of Engineers, Manhattan District
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/index.shtml
audiobook (weird, huh?)
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/6535
Back to Darkphilly's idea though, it shouldn't be necessary to teleport the BoS to DC, but there's probably an old pulp sci-fi precedent somewhere. Maybe something more mundane? Walking. Or, crossing into Texas, catching a Poseidon boat to a Gulf of Mexico oil rig, and the boat goes off course...nah, sounds too familiar. Besides FO2, it reminds me of 1st edition Twilight 2000. I know, airships! Crap, no no no. NO.
I got it.
The knights get to the Midwest, and are picked up by one of Cassidy's "huge radioactive twisters" and dropped in DC. Where we meet...The Wizard of BOS.
Which reminds me, another original document:
The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
United States Army Corps of Engineers, Manhattan District
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/index.shtml
audiobook (weird, huh?)
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/6535
Back to Darkphilly's idea though, it shouldn't be necessary to teleport the BoS to DC, but there's probably an old pulp sci-fi precedent somewhere. Maybe something more mundane? Walking. Or, crossing into Texas, catching a Poseidon boat to a Gulf of Mexico oil rig, and the boat goes off course...nah, sounds too familiar. Besides FO2, it reminds me of 1st edition Twilight 2000. I know, airships! Crap, no no no. NO.
I got it.
The knights get to the Midwest, and are picked up by one of Cassidy's "huge radioactive twisters" and dropped in DC. Where we meet...The Wizard of BOS.
To bring some real science into the teleportation idea:
There was an experiment with large-scale quantum entanglement, operating in A51 and a facility near DC. The BoS team inadvertently walks into the experiment, and exists in both places at once for a while. After shutting it down, they're in the DC facility. The entanglement isn't perfect, resulting in some cellular damage. Not very harmful, but killing enough neurons to cause personality changes or other mental disorders.
It's possible, even probable, that the original team also still exists at A51, with similar damage. Neither group would necessarily know that the other exists.
There was an experiment with large-scale quantum entanglement, operating in A51 and a facility near DC. The BoS team inadvertently walks into the experiment, and exists in both places at once for a while. After shutting it down, they're in the DC facility. The entanglement isn't perfect, resulting in some cellular damage. Not very harmful, but killing enough neurons to cause personality changes or other mental disorders.
It's possible, even probable, that the original team also still exists at A51, with similar damage. Neither group would necessarily know that the other exists.
I don't mean it as an attack on someone's creativity but isn't teleportation a little far fetched? Its more something you would see in a space based sci-fi universe than the Fallout universe.