Hellion
Antediluvian Lurker
Another interesting 3-page article from the webpage of The Sydney Morning Herald.
Preview:
The full read HERE.
Preview:
The full read HERE.
Israel decides to go to Lebanon.
- Thread starter Pope Viper
- Start date
hence, hizbullah is the hostile element in all this conflict, lebanon is not to blame except from giving in to the extremists faction, and also palstenians are not to blame except from giving in to thier extremist faction-the hammas.
i wonder how many people here think its a legit course of action for israel to take, as well if iraq was a legit course of action to take also...considering these countries are anti USA and would really love to help anything to make USA fall.
I think it's easy to "give in" when you have a gun in your face.
And Iraq wasn't that anti-USA before the invasion. At least when comparing before and after.
And Iraq wasn't that anti-USA before the invasion. At least when comparing before and after.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I've learned a lot of interesting things from this conflict.
I learned that an Egyptian man who is a self-proclaimed agnostic suspects that the US invasion of Iraq is a part of a grand Zionist conspiracy that would enable Israel to extend its borders to the Euphrates.
It's a mad mad mad mad mad mad world.
I learned that an Egyptian man who is a self-proclaimed agnostic suspects that the US invasion of Iraq is a part of a grand Zionist conspiracy that would enable Israel to extend its borders to the Euphrates.
It's a mad mad mad mad mad mad world.
Isn't it just?
Israel has as much right to exist and conduct itself as it pleases as its neighbor states do. Many of them were created for bullshit reasons as well; this isn't unique to Israel although its enemies would have you think it is. In my eyes it has proven itself no worse than any given Middle-Eastern nation. I simply have a problem with why, as an American, my government ignores it when Israel actual moves militarily against its neighbors, especially when they too are our ally.
The Hezbollah terrorists are indeed a threat to civilization, but carpet bombing the place where they live (a soverign nation!) is not the best way to get rid of them. Israel has proven itself capable of carrying out assassinations and I for one would shed no tears for a Muslim radical bent on destruction; why piss off a bunch of innocent Lebanese and kill many of them among other innocents? I don't know about anyone else but, regardless of the reason, if some country blew up my house with my stuff in it, I'd hate their guts for the rest of my life.
Israel has as much right to exist and conduct itself as it pleases as its neighbor states do. Many of them were created for bullshit reasons as well; this isn't unique to Israel although its enemies would have you think it is. In my eyes it has proven itself no worse than any given Middle-Eastern nation. I simply have a problem with why, as an American, my government ignores it when Israel actual moves militarily against its neighbors, especially when they too are our ally.
The Hezbollah terrorists are indeed a threat to civilization, but carpet bombing the place where they live (a soverign nation!) is not the best way to get rid of them. Israel has proven itself capable of carrying out assassinations and I for one would shed no tears for a Muslim radical bent on destruction; why piss off a bunch of innocent Lebanese and kill many of them among other innocents? I don't know about anyone else but, regardless of the reason, if some country blew up my house with my stuff in it, I'd hate their guts for the rest of my life.
dude, i'm sorry but you have absolutley no idea what you're talking about.
first of all, hizballa constantly bombs israeli cities(which are close to the border) with rockets... they don't aim at military targets! they aim at civillian houses only! they launch the rockets from "civilian" houses which are close to the borders, and that's why it's so difficult to to fight them... you say that israel has proved itself with assasinations? what the hell? we're not fighting with a handful of people here, and each assasinasion in the past was vs a terrorist leader which was planned for quite some time by israeli intellignce...
the difference is that they are trying to hurt civillians, and we're trying to hurt them(the terrorists). we don't want and need this war. we didn't do anything to provoke it too. they invaded our borders and attacked our patrol squad which was patrolling WITHING OUR AGREED INTERNATIONAL BOREDRS!! and kidnapped 2 of our beloved soldiers, demanding hundards and thousands of terrorists in return. and that's only after they kidnapped another soldier of ours near gaza. what are we supposed to do? exchange them for the terrorists and wait for them to do it again?
check this out...
http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null
first of all, hizballa constantly bombs israeli cities(which are close to the border) with rockets... they don't aim at military targets! they aim at civillian houses only! they launch the rockets from "civilian" houses which are close to the borders, and that's why it's so difficult to to fight them... you say that israel has proved itself with assasinations? what the hell? we're not fighting with a handful of people here, and each assasinasion in the past was vs a terrorist leader which was planned for quite some time by israeli intellignce...
the difference is that they are trying to hurt civillians, and we're trying to hurt them(the terrorists). we don't want and need this war. we didn't do anything to provoke it too. they invaded our borders and attacked our patrol squad which was patrolling WITHING OUR AGREED INTERNATIONAL BOREDRS!! and kidnapped 2 of our beloved soldiers, demanding hundards and thousands of terrorists in return. and that's only after they kidnapped another soldier of ours near gaza. what are we supposed to do? exchange them for the terrorists and wait for them to do it again?
check this out...
http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null
SimpleMinded
Vault Fossil
sunny jim said:
The problem is, Israel is doing a shitty ass job taking out JUST terrorists as you proclaim.
Attacking U.N. observers and killing six DESPITE being warned of their position for six hours prior. http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/26/mideast.main/index.html
Unfortunately, the news story is no longer up but in addition, a red cross vehicle was hit head on by israeli missles.
Nine Israeli soldiers were reported killed in heavy fighting in southern Lebanon today, while 10 Palestinians including a three-year-old girl were killed.
That's from http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1830576,00.html
In addition, how many Lebanese INNOCENTS have been killed?
By no means am I justifying the Hezbollah as I agree, they're not right in this situation. But the Israeli's are by no means killing JUST Hezbollah either.[/b]
Hellion
Antediluvian Lurker
About 350 civilian casualties so far in Lebanon, half of which are children, and another 1,000 wounded. Jacob Dallal, the Israeli Defense Forces spokesman, said Israeli forces were doing "everything to minimize" civilian casualties in Lebanon. Damn fine job, people 
From what I've seen on BBC and other news channels, reporters wandering around the ruins of what used to be Beirut only come across houses, gas stations, hospitals, all flattened by air bombings. "Hezbollah objectives", indeed. After 10 years we will see a new generation of fanatical "terrorists" emerging in Lebanon, and people will be wondering why.
From what I've seen on BBC and other news channels, reporters wandering around the ruins of what used to be Beirut only come across houses, gas stations, hospitals, all flattened by air bombings. "Hezbollah objectives", indeed. After 10 years we will see a new generation of fanatical "terrorists" emerging in Lebanon, and people will be wondering why.
well the thing is, that this is horse crap... no 12 iraeli soldiers were killed... from the start of the war maybe 10-15 were killed... that's what happens when you're fed by news from the palastinian news stations like "el jazira"... 13 soldiers were injured yes, but i didn't know that injury equels death. about the 3 year old girl, what business does she have sociallizing with armed terrorists? hmm... mabye she was a human shield? no! no way! they have never done that...
about the UN observers, that's surely a tragedy, and it's in investigation... but please be a little bit more realistic. this is WAR, and in a war which is being held in civillian territory, civillians will die no matter how much you try to avoid it. but it's a fact that a whole lot more terrorists died than civilians, and the other side can say the opposite.
the one who said we use "carpet bombings", is it a hobby of yours spreading false accusations which are based on nothing? yes, we do bomb houses which rockets are being lunched from... nothing more. if for 100 of this houses, one house is innocent, this means we did one hell of a job which noone could have done better. we fight agains terrorists which use garilla tactics, this is very difficult to do, and we're doing our best. we have progressed quite a lot and already dealt hizballa a big blow, and we will continue to do so until we get results, and sadly only this way will bring results. we are tired of living in terror for NO REASON, and we are tired of being held hostage. our cause is just, and i believe it from the bottom of my heart, and i would surely be happy if any of you would show me where i'm wrong, but please, use facts like i do, and not demagogy...
about the UN observers, that's surely a tragedy, and it's in investigation... but please be a little bit more realistic. this is WAR, and in a war which is being held in civillian territory, civillians will die no matter how much you try to avoid it. but it's a fact that a whole lot more terrorists died than civilians, and the other side can say the opposite.
the one who said we use "carpet bombings", is it a hobby of yours spreading false accusations which are based on nothing? yes, we do bomb houses which rockets are being lunched from... nothing more. if for 100 of this houses, one house is innocent, this means we did one hell of a job which noone could have done better. we fight agains terrorists which use garilla tactics, this is very difficult to do, and we're doing our best. we have progressed quite a lot and already dealt hizballa a big blow, and we will continue to do so until we get results, and sadly only this way will bring results. we are tired of living in terror for NO REASON, and we are tired of being held hostage. our cause is just, and i believe it from the bottom of my heart, and i would surely be happy if any of you would show me where i'm wrong, but please, use facts like i do, and not demagogy...
sunny jim, i think its very easy for other countries to judge israel, because they dont have to think what they would do if it were thier country. liberals in israel also think there is a way to minimise the casualties inside lebanon, but as we all know hizbullah enjoys putting human shields on the rockets he sends on north israel, also there alot of people who sees palastinians and lebanon as non-hostile populations, just because they are minority compared to israel.
btw, not to say anything about the DECENY of UN, they helped kiddnap & kill 3 of our soldiers a few years ago-in that same area.
also what they dont tell is that IDF always announces where he is going to bomb BEFORE, so there really shouldn't be any casualties, unless you dont believe that hizbullah is telling lebanon people to stay in thier house.
btw, not to say anything about the DECENY of UN, they helped kiddnap & kill 3 of our soldiers a few years ago-in that same area.
also what they dont tell is that IDF always announces where he is going to bomb BEFORE, so there really shouldn't be any casualties, unless you dont believe that hizbullah is telling lebanon people to stay in thier house.
sunny jim said:
Yes, and obviously bombing a building in which you knew 6 hours up front were unarmed UN observers and continuing bombing it despite numerous calls from said building to stop (even telling those unarmed UN observers that you'll stop and then continuing) is a Class A attempt to avoid civilian casualties.
Are you joking?
sunny jim said:
Terrorists are civilians, you moron. Suffer could stand all your idiocy up until that point, but that statement was just TOO MUCH.
Aegis said:
Bullshit.
I'm staying out of this cock-and-bull debate so far, but Frith be damned you people are spouting a lot of monkey crap, on both sides.
zioburosky13
Vault Senior Citizen
Well....Isareal just 'accidently' killed a China ambassador...
There goes the neighbourhood
There goes the neighbourhood
I didn't know the BBC was a Palestinian news station. In fact, I didn't know "el jazira"(sic) was one either. Probably because it's from Qatar.sunny jim said:
I love how you two assault everyone who gets his news from somewhere other than Israel, claiming that they only listen to Palestinian news agencies. It's odd that the entire world is wrong and that they all listen to Palestinian news agencies while the Israelis are obviously the only ones who've got all the facts. Heh.
Suffer said:
nothing is "obvious"... we don't know all the details yet, it's not as simple as it looks. you can base your opinion on unaccurate news all you want.
Suffer said:
what the hell?! first of all, have you heard of the phrase "civillian holding a gun is no longer a civillian"?
second of all, what the.. i don't even know what to say to this... i mean, they are in military uniform, they learn warefare tactics, they fight with our soldiers toe to toe with guns, artilary and anti tank weapons, and you somehow call them civilians and you compare the death of them to the death of a 5 year old girl playing with dolls in her house?
whatever, call me a moron all you want, there is absolutely no use talking to people who say thing just to irrotate others... that's the problem with this forum, you keep stricts rules about flaming, as long is it's not the moderators, which are gods and they can flame all they want. if this isn't flaming (a terrorist is a civilian you moron!!) then i don't know what is.
Suffer said:
sure, lould "it's all bullshit" out loud with absolutly no arguments to back it up... way to go! that's the way to have a good debate.
I'm wondering where you get your accurate information, then.sunny jim said:
I don't seem to recall a comparison to any 5 year old girl.
But Suffer is right. Terrorists are civilians. Because a civilian is anyone not serving in an official army, basically. Hence, terrorists are civilians.
This becomes a lot easier to understand once you think about the fact that a lot of (future) terrorists live relatively normal lives, until they walk into Israel and blow themselves up.
We don't have strict rules about flaming. We have strict rules about contentless posts and whining, though.sunny jim said:
But if you don't like it around here, you can easily go elsewhere. We have no need for people who whine about how bad it is around here.
Sander said:
well, there's a small problem... i wasn't talking about the news of the killed UN observers, i was talking about other news... but hey, that was just small details right?
oh, and qatar, the totally objective nation will sure give objective news... meh. anyways, no 12 soldiers were killed in that fight, that's what i'm talking about. israel has never and will never withhold that kind of information and each killed soldier is posted on the news instantly. on the other hand, others have an interest to say that more soldiers died than they actually did for obvious reasons...
Thanks for not reading the article. You were talking about the number of soldiers killed. That article also claims that 13 people were killed.sunny jim said:
But hey, I guess that's just a small detail, right?
from the article:sunny jim said:
"Israel has not confirmed any deaths from among its soldiers, but says there have been 20 casualties in the clashes around the town of Bint Jbail. "
Sander said:
i visit this site not for the debate i'm currently having. i like more things about it than the things i don't. or you thing everyone here should love each and every aspect of the site in order to visit it?
about the civillian thing, you can say the same about the israeli soldiers. all of them are civilians who for 3 years in their life serve in the army, and go home once a week to be with their friends and go to parties... others are civilians which could be even 30-40 years old which served in the army 10-20 years ago and are suddonly called up to war.
anyways, this is dumb. you can't compare the death of someone who fights and dies in the battlefield, which is somewhat understandable and logical, to someone who dies on his way to the local 7-11 for no reason. that's what i'm talking about, all the other things are semantics. you want to call them civilians and pat yourself on the back? go ahead.
about the news, again, we don't know all the exact details yet so i don't want to talk about it and in MY opinion you should assume things based on yet inaccurate news.
Sander said:
not israeli though!! look, i just checked all our major news websites, and none of them says that... that's kind of odd now, isn't it?