Israel decides to go to Lebanon.

[SuAside]

i visit this site not for the debate i'm currently having. i like more things about it than the things i don't. or you thing everyone here should love each and every aspect of the site in order to visit it?

no, but you should listen to the admin when he says it's been enough. not to mention that even if there was no moderator, you shouldn't call people names (unless you have a valid reason to).

also, don't double post... i'd think thats a given.

 

[sunny jim]

i visit this site not for the debate i'm currently having. i like more things about it than the things i don't. or you thing everyone here should love each and every aspect of the site in order to visit it?

no, but you should listen to the admin when he says it's been enough. not to mention that even if there was no moderator, you shouldn't call people names (unless you have a valid reason to).

also, don't double post... i'd think thats a given.

have you even read the posts in this thread, or you just barged in here and wrote some very weird accusations for fun.

let's see here... let's analyze what you told me here:
1.if a mod said enough, that means enough.

reaction: no one warned me about anything... can you refer me to where someone told me to stop doing anything i did?

2. i called people names

reaction: hmm... i just checked and i didn't call anyone names... but "suffer" did call me a moron...

3. i double post

reaction: again, i just checked and... hey! i didn't!

but hey, you're right nonetheless... i'll go to the corner and think about what i did(or didn't do, but if someone here tells me that i did it, then i probably did... i guess i'm just not smart enough to of blind to the truth or something)

 

[Brother None]

nothing is "obvious"... we don't know all the details yet, it's not as simple as it looks. you can base your opinion on unaccurate news all you want.

There's nothing inaccurate about it. It takes a SHITLOAD for the secretary-general of the UN, the Leading Pussy of Earth, to actually condemn something. Somehow I feel like trusting the UN on this.

what the hell?! first of all, have you heard of the phrase "civillian holding a gun is no longer a civillian"?

Ahahaha!

Well, there goes civil law in the US! Hah! Suffer likes!

second of all, what the.. i don't even know what to say to this... i mean, they are in military uniform, they learn warefare tactics, they fight with our soldiers toe to toe with guns, artilary and anti tank weapons, and you somehow call them civilians and you compare the death of them to the death of a 5 year old girl playing with dolls in her house?

Did I make that comparison? No. Do not put words in my mouth.

I'm saying your statement is incorrect and laughable at best, simply because there is no distinction between a "terrorist", which is about someone's manner of applying violence, and a "civilian", which is about someone being not a cop or a soldier.

whatever, call me a moron all you want, there is absolutely no use talking to people who say thing just to irrotate others... that's the problem with this forum, you keep stricts rules about flaming, as long is it's not the moderators, which are gods and they can flame all they want. if this isn't flaming (a terrorist is a civilian you moron!!) then i don't know what is.

It is flaming. It is very richly deserved flaming, though.

sure, lould "it's all bullshit" out loud with absolutly no arguments to back it up... way to go! that's the way to have a good debate.

Arguments? Burden of evidence is not for suffer. You prove it's true, then I'll start making arguments. Pulling statements out of your ass does not make you right.

oh, and qatar, the totally objective nation will sure give objective news... meh.

Either way your "Palestinian" remark was still incorrect. Try to be a bit more accurate.

about the civillian thing, you can say the same about the israeli soldiers. all of them are civilians who for 3 years in their life serve in the army, and go home once a week to be with their friends and go to parties... others are civilians which could be even 30-40 years old which served in the army 10-20 years ago and are suddonly called up to war.

You make suffer sad:
ci·vil·ian Audio pronunciation of "civilian" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-vlyn)
n.

1. A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military or police.
2. A specialist in Roman or civil law.

So no, you can bloody well NOT say the same thing about Israeli soldiers. Apples and pears, man.

someone who fights and dies in the battlefield, which is somewhat understandable and logical,

What, by definition? You have a very skewed view of reality, man

not israeli though!! look, i just checked all our major news websites, and none of them says that... that's kind of odd now, isn't it?

Geeee! Yeah, I wonder what that tells us about Israeli media?

PS: don't double-post, I hate editing them out. And do NOT deny double-posting just because an admin fixed your mistake, that's just idiotic.

 

[SimpleMinded]

well the thing is, that this is horse crap... no 12 iraeli soldiers were killed... from the start of the war maybe 10-15 were killed... that's what happens when you're fed by news from the palastinian news stations like "el jazira"...

Hrmm... well, since I believe you're referring to my Guardian article (A UK news site mind you) maybe you should read it a little more thoroughly.

Al-Jazeera said nine soldiers died in the Lebanese town of Bint Jbeil, where Israeli forces have been fighting Hizbullah for four days. Al Arabiya television said at least 12 Israeli soldiers were killed there.

The reports could not be immediately verified. The Israeli army said several soldiers were wounded in fighting but would not give details. Israeli radio said at least 10 Israeli soldiers had died.

If you won't accept Al-Jazeera news, how about Israeli news? Still not good enough? Maybe you should just give up.

anyways, this is dumb. you can't compare the death of someone who fights and dies in the battlefield, which is somewhat understandable and logical, to someone who dies on his way to the local 7-11 for no reason.

Fine, but what about people who are being killed by bombings as they try and flee the areas Israel says they will attack? Are they acceptable deaths since they weren't "on their way to the 7-11." You seem to be giving a far greater value to innocent Israelis than you do Lebanese.

 

[Starseeker]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/07/25/un-lebanon.html

Besides the 7 Canadians(including 3 babies) that were killed on the first few days, another one just got added to the mix.

I am curious about what Harper would do now since somebody other than Canadians with lebanese roots just died. There were some conservative banter about how some of these people aren't "true" Canadians(not living in the Country for a while), therefore, 1. have no right to complain, 2. probably deserve to die. Was this what Harper was counting on?

And now I wonder what China would say about it. Would they use it as a leverage to get the US to back off from North Korea? Or would they use this as an excuse to get some oil/favors from Iran?

 

[SuAside]

have you even read the posts in this thread, or you just barged in here and wrote some very weird accusations for fun.

i have read & followed it quite some time. i believe my opinions are in the beginning of the thread somewhere. i have little to add to those.

let's see here... let's analyze what you told me here:
1.if a mod said enough, that means enough.

reaction: no one warned me about anything... can you refer me to where someone told me to stop doing anything i did?

Sander did imo, but i guess thats semantics again?

2. i called people names

reaction: hmm... i just checked and i didn't call anyone names... but "suffer" did call me a moron...

that was in fact not directed at you, just a general statement (a piece of advice, if you will), which i thought was rather funny since it was the mod that was calling names. call the MP's! we need to mod the mods!

3. i double post

reaction: again, i just checked and... hey! i didn't!

yes, you did, but Suffer was kind enough to edit it out.

aint really useful to deny it when the admin knows, ya know... it only shows you don't care about ze rules.

but hey, you're right nonetheless... i'll go to the corner and think about what i did(or didn't do, but if someone here tells me that i did it, then i probably did... i guess i'm just not smart enough to of blind to the truth or something)

*whine* alone against the world *whine* i want my mommy *whine*



we'll make a man out of you yet, sonnyboy!

now, lets get back on topic, shall we?

 

[Brother None]

So is the Israeli media reporting on this?

Also, here is a somewhat leftwing but mildly fair assesment of Israel's attempt and ability to "fight fair".

 

[Lord 342]

I shall ignore Sunny Jim.

Aegis, you can't say that I don't know what it's like. My country has been ravaged by terrorism as well; we cannot forget the thousands who perished in New York for no reason, those in the Pentagon, the soldiers on the USS Cole, the people in the first World Trade Center bombing, and many Americans who have died in other countries because of some douchebag terrorist.
I do not support Hezbollah, I want them to die. At Israel's hands, at Saudi Arabia's at those of my own nation or anyone else who steps up to the plate.

My points are simple: Israel, Lebanon, etc. are, by and large, full of non-terrorist civilians who just want to drive to work, the store, whatever, without being blown up. If someone blows you up, I'm sure your last few fleeting seconds of thought as you are rended into tiny chunks are NOT towards exactly who did the blowing up, be it Hezbollah, Israel, the US, or anyone else with sense or stupidity to acquire ordnance and deploy it.
Going and wiping out the terrorists is a GOOD idea. But Israel is using the WRONG method. You don't use a sledgehammer to hang a picture nor do you use a tack-hammer to drive a railroad spike.
Israel and Lebanon are BOTH allies of the United States. Why we're letting them fight like this is beyond me. This isn't an English boarding school. Yes there IS a problem. The US has no love for these terrorists, I'm sure we'd offer some kind of support if Israel or Lebanon asked for help to drive them out. yet we sit by idly as one of our allies uses a chainsaw to trim the other's fingernails.

 

[Sovz]

People like sunny jim have their head stuck so deep in their ass that they will not tolerate any ideas other then their own.

There is one thing you need to understand about the average Israeli point of view - it’s extremely Judo-centric in nature in a sense that they consider themselves superior to others and therefore will not care for anything or anyone other then themselves which in turn makes them blind to other side’s suffering.

Trust me, its better not to argue with people who refuse to listen or even consider the possibility that they are wrong.

 

[Sander]

anyways, this is dumb. you can't compare the death of someone who fights and dies in the battlefield, which is somewhat understandable and logical, to someone who dies on his way to the local 7-11 for no reason. that's what i'm talking about, all the other things are semantics. you want to call them civilians and pat yourself on the back? go ahead.

about the news, again, we don't know all the exact details yet so i don't want to talk about it and in MY opinion you should assume things based on yet inaccurate news.

The BBC is a very respectable and usually pretty accurate news source.

not israeli though!! look, i just checked all our major news websites, and none of them says that... that's kind of odd now, isn't it?

I love how you assume that when the Israeli news outlets are reporting something differently from the rest of the entire world the rest of the world has to be wrong.

 

[aegis]

here's whats this thread all about-

It's odd that the entire world is wrong and that they all listen to Palestinian news agencies while the Israelis are obviously the only ones who've got all the facts. Heh.

example:

Aegis wrote:
also what they dont tell is that IDF always announces where he is going to bomb BEFORE, so there really shouldn't be any casualties, unless you dont believe that hizbullah is telling lebanon people to stay in thier house.

Bullshit.

example of getting the wrong ideas about your enemies:

But Suffer is right. Terrorists are civilians. Because a civilian is anyone not serving in an official army, basically. Hence, terrorists are civilians

talking about "fairness" when lebanon is bombing all of north israel, since the fighting began like 1300 rockets, with 20 civilians dead.

Also, here is a somewhat leftwing but mildly fair assesment of Israel's attempt and ability to "fight fair".

back to my point:

I love how you assume that when the Israeli news outlets are reporting something differently from the rest of the entire world the rest of the world has to be wrong.

why do you think the rest of the world is getting it right? at the start of the discussion people thought israel provoked lebanon, people dont believe that hizbullah is using human shields, thats a known fact for every terrorist organization.

no one believes israel, thats just a mentallity of people outsides israel, and thats despite of the fact that we did not provoke anything-not in gazza and not lebanon.
the humanitarian "suffer"(great name for humanitarian, i must add) would probably say otherwise if it was his country being attacked, and i am sure you all would take this TOTALLY different than how israel is taking it, because israel is usually unfair in its combat compared to other armies, and thats what? a known fact?

People like sunny jim have their head stuck so deep in their ass that they will not tolerate any ideas other then their own.

....

Trust me, its better not to argue with people who refuse to listen or even consider the possibility that they are wrong

thats a sign when you know nobody wants to listen to what israel has to say, they just dont care and want to you to shut up because they know all the facts, better than whats going on in your own country, yeah right.

 

[PhredBean]

But Suffer is right. Terrorists are civilians. Because a civilian is anyone not serving in an official army, basically. Hence, terrorists are civilians

Right, a form of civilian known as a criminal. Terrorists are criminals. Like any other rabid criminal who has a gun aimed at innocents they must be put down or captured as the situation demands WITHOUT harming innocents. The isreali army is right to combat those terrorists who are threatening those citizens under it's protection - as is the responsibility of any government. Where they are wrong is in harming citizens, destroying property, placing troops in a sovereign nation without the express permission of that nation; all are crimes under the laws of the international community. So there it is in simple terms: a criminal organization being fought by a government using criminal means. As far as I am concerned the situation calls for policing action.

 

[Sander]

example:

Aegis wrote:
also what they dont tell is that IDF always announces where he is going to bomb BEFORE, so there really shouldn't be any casualties, unless you dont believe that hizbullah is telling lebanon people to stay in thier house.

Bullshit.

Yes, Bullshit, because there's no reason whatsoever to think this is true. Any claim we make is dismissed by you as 'No, you watch the wrong news, ours is the only one that is right', yet when Suffer dismisses your claim with essentially the same argument, you say we're not listening.
How's that for shitty logic.
I'm willing to believe that the IDF does that, but I have no reason to assume so at this time. Someone telling me it is so does not make it so at all.

example of getting the wrong ideas about your enemies:

But Suffer is right. Terrorists are civilians. Because a civilian is anyone not serving in an official army, basically. Hence, terrorists are civilians

I was talking about the definition of civilians and terrorists, aegis. But hey, this is only being said about the fiftieth time.
Let me say this again: it doesn't matter if they organise themselves in a semi-military group or not, they are still civilians. It's the *definition* of civilian, it has *nothing* to do with whether or not they're killing Israelis (which is not something I've been disputing).

talking about "fairness" when lebanon is bombing all of north israel, since the fighting began like 1300 rockets, with 20 civilians dead.

Also, here is a somewhat leftwing but mildly fair assesment of Israel's attempt and ability to "fight fair".

You just illustrated his point. Israel is justifying killing civilians by saying 'but they killed our civilians'.

why do you think the rest of the world is getting it right? at the start of the discussion people thought israel provoked lebanon, people dont believe that hizbullah is using human shields, thats a known fact for every terrorist organization.

Why do you think Israel is right?
Really, statistically speaking, the chance that the Israeli news-outlets are not twisting the truth but the entirety of the world is is really, really small.
It's a pretty rare form of arrogance to think that the rest of the world is wrong because they're not from Israel.

no one believes israel, thats just a mentallity of people outsides israel, and thats despite of the fact that we did not provoke anything-not in gazza and not lebanon.

Bullshit, both times.
Building a wall through what is generally acknowledged as Palestinian ground is a provocation, alright. So yes, you did provoke attacks.
But that doesn't mean those attacks are any better, and I've never, not in my entire life, heard anyone claim that that actually gives the terrorists a right to kill people. No-one thinks that.

As for no-one believing the Israelis, if you really believe that, you *are* a moron. Hell, just look at Fox.

the humanitarian "suffer"(great name for humanitarian, i must add) would probably say otherwise if it was his country being attacked, and i am sure you all would take this TOTALLY different than how israel is taking it, because israel is usually unfair in its combat compared to other armies, and thats what? a known fact?

No. What is true is that Israel's form of attack usually causes a lot of civilian deaths. This is pretty much impossible to avoid when you're bombing cities with terrorists in them.

Eh, most people dislike seeing innocents die, and they dislike it even more when Israel claims 'but they killed our civilians', because that makes them look damned hypocritical. Things like them building walls, ignoring the roadmap to peace for a while don't make things any better for you either.

Of course, everyone understands that you're basically constantly under attack and want to defend yourselves. Most people don't like the way you do it. And that has nothing to do with you being Israel, because that outrage happens if any other country does that as well.

thats a sign when you know nobody wants to listen to what israel has to say, they just dont care and want to you to shut up because they know all the facts, better than whats going on in your own country, yeah right.

Ugh. This is what people think about when they say 'Israeli arrogance'. It's an attitude that basically says 'We're right, you're all wrong' with essentially no supporting evidence.
See, you refuse to think about the possibility that, for instance, perhaps the Israeli news-outlets are *gasp* biased towards Israel's stance (no, that could never be, a news-outlet favoring its own country in a war), but instead automatically every other news-outlet in the world is biased against Israel.
The argument 'but it's our country we're talking about' is also bullshit, since news-outlets get their information from reporters stationed in, gee, your country as well.

 

[Brother None]

here's whats this thread all about-

No it isn't. Who died and made you king of the thread?

example

It would help if you'd post proof. And when posting proof, explain what went wrong with those UN people.

example of getting the wrong ideas about your enemies

"wrong idea"? They ARE civilians! Where is the wrong idea in that?

The term "civilian" is not a moral judgement, it's a word, and like most words it has a definition, and its definition applies to the people being killed in Lebanon. Where is the wrong idea in that?

talking about "fairness" when lebanon is bombing all of north israel, since the fighting began like 1300 rockets, with 20 civilians dead.

Oh, so "fairness" is a relative term? Good going on relative morality there.

So if Israel kills 20 civilians with 1300 rockets, does that mean Lebanon (or Hezbollah) has an inherent right to respond likewise? Or does this morality only apply to you?

why do you think the rest of the world is getting it right?

Because all things given equal, the likelyhood of outside impartial news sources being right on something is more likely than on inherently biased news sources being so. That's simple logic.

at the start of the discussion people thought israel provoked lebanon, people dont believe that hizbullah is using human shields, thats a known fact for every terrorist organization.

Really? Prove it. Stating that it's a known fact without backing it up is worth exactly squat.

no one believes israel, thats just a mentallity of people outsides israel, and thats despite of the fact that we did not provoke anything-not in gazza and not lebanon.

Oh yeah, I forgot, we're all against you, we're all being a bunch of meanies. Don't forget to call us anti-Semites while you're at it.

the humanitarian "suffer"(great name for humanitarian, i must add) would probably say otherwise if it was his country being attacked, and i am sure you all would take this TOTALLY different than how israel is taking it, because israel is usually unfair in its combat compared to other armies, and thats what? a known fact?

Hah! Hahah!

You know what the most amusing thing here is? Suffer is not against Israel at all. Israel's reaction never seemed "disproportionate" to me and I think the whole term "proportionate response" is meaningless. I don't think Hezbollah has any major redeeming factors that give it a raison d'etre as things stand.

I've been on Israel's side on this matter since the start. I don't think they're doing much of anything wrong and I think Lebanon and mostly Hezbollah have committed too many wrongs by this point to yet deserve protection from anyone. Israel's willingness to turn over the fight to an international peace corps if only that army can provide for their safety is an exact good show of what Israel's motives are and why, despite some flaws in executions, this has generally been a good show.

But there you go. You just put me in the anti-Israel box. "Why, if it were your country..." Is that the limit of your logical capacity? Labelled boxes of anti- and pro-Israelites? Did it ever occur to you that I like to look at the situation more impartially and yet reached nearly the same conclusion as you, just failing to base it on bullshit semantics, wrongful facts and ridiculous conclusions?

Suffer takes offense at the fact that suffer's side of the argument has such people as you in it. It's a sad fact that this surely only hurts suffer's side.

thats a sign when you know nobody wants to listen to what israel has to say, they just dont care and want to you to shut up because they know all the facts, better than whats going on in your own country, yeah right.

Well cry me a bloody river.

Right, a form of civilian known as a criminal. Terrorists are criminals. Like any other rabid criminal who has a gun aimed at innocents they must be put down or captured as the situation demands WITHOUT harming innocents. The isreali army is right to combat those terrorists who are threatening those citizens under it's protection - as is the responsibility of any government.

Suffer never disputed these facts.

 

[PhredBean]

Suffer never disputed these facts.

Yeah, I wasn't spelling them out for you though. I know you have a clue, aegis and sunny jim however...

 

[aegis]

and the trolling continues...

So if Israel kills 20 civilians with 1300 rockets, does that mean Lebanon (or Hezbollah) has an inherent right to respond likewise? Or does this morality only apply to you?

????

see what i mean about not listening! israel was bombed by 1300 rockets by the hizbullah and those are our casualties.

here is another provocator from mr humanitarian:

Suffer takes offense at the fact that suffer's side of the argument has such people as you in it. It's a sad fact that this surely only hurts suffer's side.

i'm so sorry, but you're not the one getting those rockets on your ass, so who are you preaching to your better self?

and sander was saying this about me:

It's a pretty rare form of arrogance

if thats not arrogance...

Yes, Bullshit, because there's no reason whatsoever to think this is true.

here's one proof for ya.
http://www.sulekha.com/news/newsitem.aspx?cid=454885

and for those too lazy:

IT SHOULD BE obvious by now that Hizbullah and Hamas actually want the Israeli military to kill as many Lebanese and Palestinian civilians as possible. That is why they store their rockets underneath the beds of civilians; why they launch their missiles from crowded civilian neighborhoods and hide among civilians. They are seeking to induce Israel to defend its civilians by going after them among their civilian "shields." They know that every civilian they induce Israel to kill hurts Israel in the media and the international and human rights communities

Most people don't like the way you do it. And that has nothing to do with you being Israel, because that outrage happens if any other country does that as well.

funny, so why the outbursts against me and sunny jim, because we are not conducting normal conversations or is that just because we think not like you?

the amount of contradictions going on here, you really have to explain this:

As for no-one believing the Israelis, if you really believe that, you *are* a moron. Hell, just look at Fox

=

Why do you think Israel is right?
Really, statistically speaking, the chance that the Israeli news-outlets are not twisting the truth but the entirety of the world is is really, really small.
It's a pretty rare form of arrogance to think that the rest of the world is wrong because they're not from Israel.

i mean, thats actually funny, that you think i cannot see how you just contradict in the name of trolling, or what ever other reasons you have for just contradicting someone on your forum.

Bullshit, both times.
Building a wall through what is generally acknowledged as Palestinian ground is a provocation, alright

bullshit ^2

we left the gaza strip from any kind of israeli inhabitant, the fence is to protect us from terrorists, again israel have to apologise for trying to protect itself, what a repeating joke, i am sorry to use the same logic again-but if it were your country attacked by terrorists infiltrating your country, wouldn't you build a fence? so if i build a fence i'm provocative?ph, and there was no such thing as palestinians before 1967, so dont talk about "thier" territories.

The argument 'but it's our country we're talking about' is also bullshit, since news-outlets get their information from reporters stationed in, gee, your country as well.

and thats a really thin grasp of reality too, as you well know, or maybe not, that there are always 2 sides to every story, and in those outlets i see in the news around the world the only thing covered is arabs, arabs, poor arabs.

A media shows only 1 side of the story so you think there is only 1 way. the audicty of your claims to tell me whats going on in my country is incredible, but understandable because you dont live here, all you get from the reality of my country is through tv or internet, i actually walk those street serve in the army and meet the people involved.


so you are going to tell me a story about my reality, is that it?

and i am arrogant?

 

[Per]

So if Israel kills 20 civilians with 1300 rockets, does that mean Lebanon (or Hezbollah) has an inherent right to respond likewise? Or does this morality only apply to you?

????

see what i mean about not listening! israel was bombed by 1300 rockets by the hizbullah and those are our casualties.

Gee, I think he knows that. Just maybe he was making some other point.

the amount of contradictions going on here, you really have to explain this:

As for no-one believing the Israelis, if you really believe that, you *are* a moron. Hell, just look at Fox

=

Why do you think Israel is right?
Really, statistically speaking, the chance that the Israeli news-outlets are not twisting the truth but the entirety of the world is is really, really small.
It's a pretty rare form of arrogance to think that the rest of the world is wrong because they're not from Israel.

i mean, thats actually funny, that you think i cannot see how you just contradict in the name of trolling, or what ever other reasons you have for just contradicting someone on your forum.

What is this, the Chewbacca defence? "How could the moose eat the apple?? There aren't even any moose in Tasmania!!!! So you are wrong about this other thing!!!!"

so you are going to tell me a story about my reality, is that it?

and i am arrogant?

I'm basically pro-Israel too (though I have no idea what they're doing right now), and I can verify that you don't make much sense.

 

[Brother None]

and the trolling continues...

Yes, you are trolling. Or stupid.

????

see what i mean about not listening! israel was bombed by 1300 rockets by the hizbullah and those are our casualties.

Usually, sentences that start with "So if..." are hypothetical. What is this, some idiotic straw man? I repeat "WHAT IF Israel does the same to Lebanon, would this give Lebanon a default right to return fire in the same way Israel does now?"

here is another provocator from mr humanitarian

Stop trolling or you shall have pain brought by suffer.

i'm so sorry, but you're not the one getting those rockets on your ass, so who are you preaching to your better self?

Better self? Suffer has only one self, self is suffer.

Are you incapable of posting anything beyond these idiotic logical fallacies and straw men? What the hell does your having rockets up your ass (heh) got to do with being right or wrong?

Try to understand this; being in Israel does not make you right. Being in Israel does not give you a special understanding of facts. Being in Israel does not give you the right to discount other people's opinion. This is not arguing, this is trolling.

Again, it hurts suffer to see his side of the argument defended that weakly. Do you realise that you have right on your side? Do you realise that you, yourself, are ruining this right by continuing to argue with only fallacies? Your trolling and statements about being in Israel do not change the fact that you have yet to put forth even one valid argument.

if thats not arrogance...

Oh, fantastic. "Yeah, well, so are you." What the hell is wrong with you?

here's one proof for ya.
http://www.sulekha.com/news/newsitem.aspx?cid=454885

That article makes no mention whatsoever of Israel warning up ahead when firing missiles, which is what you were supposed to prove. Try again.

funny, so why the outbursts against me and sunny jim, because we are not conducting normal conversations or is that just because we think not like you?

Amusing! The "outbursts" against you and sunny jim have surprisingly little to do with you defending Israel, it's *HOW* you defend Israel; by insulting the intelligence of anyone who even mildly disagree, by making spurious claims about Israeli media, by making spurious claims about you being right simply because you happen to be in Israel.

If you were actually arguing in another way than with one-sentence pieces of arrogant propaganda, you'd find the treatment towards you to be much kinder.

i mean, thats actually funny, that you think i cannot see how you just contradict in the name of trolling, or what ever other reasons you have for just contradicting someone on your forum.

I'm kind of unclear what you're talking about. "Contradict" as a verb simply means he opposes or disagrees with someone. Obviously he does, he contradicts you.

Do you mean he's contradicting himself? That's another meaning wholesale.

Nor was he contradicting himself. In one sentence he mentions that there are supporters of Israel and mentions Fox as an example of this. In the other sentence he mentions purely Israeli newsoutlets vs. the *majority* (not all, unless you think hyperbole = fact) of the world's newsoutlets. The final sentence you posted has nothing to do with the entire statement. There is no contradiction there.

Also, you speak of an "amount of contradictions". Mention more.

bullshit ^2

Sharp, man.

Now, finally, some attempts at actual arguments. Bit too easy, tho'

we left the gaza strip from any kind of israeli inhabitant

That is completely unrelated. Also that sentence makes no sense.

the fence is to protect us from terrorists

That is the "why". The "why" is also irrelevant, nor did Sander mention why you were doing it or condemn your reasons for doing it. He was talking about the act, the "how", not the "why".

again israel have to apologise for trying to protect itself, what a repeating jokei am sorry to use the same logic again-but if it were your country attacked by terrorists infiltrating your country, wouldn't you build a fence? so if i build a fence i'm provocative?

Again, irrelevant straw men. We're not talking about *why*.

We're talking about the fact that Israel built a wall on ground that is not considered theirs by anyone anywhere, except maybe Israelis themselves. The wall is also known to block off trading routes and cut off Palestinians from one another.

Why you did and how effective it was is irrelevant. It IS provocation.

ph, and there was no such thing as palestinians before 1967, so dont talk about "thier" territories.

Yes. And before 1812 BC there were now Jews. There were no "Americans" before 1776 AD. Does this mean they also have no reason to exist, because the started their "formal existence" at an arbitrary point in time? So how long ago does it have to be before they DO have a right to exist? 50 years? 100 years? 500 years? Are "Americans" a people? Can they "own" territories by your logic?

Why do you think naming an arbitrary year as the beginning to the existence of a populace devoids them of a right to have a country? This is completely irrelevant. Nobody cares how long the Palestinians have existed or even if they "exist" now. That's not how international law works. By international law, they are a people, they have territories, there is no twisting around this in any way, least of all by saying they didn't exist before a certain year.

and thats a really thin grasp of reality too, as you well know, or maybe not, that there are always 2 sides to every story, and in those outlets i see in the news around the world the only thing covered is arabs, arabs, poor arabs.

That's right, a lot of media are islamoapologistic in approach and pro-Arab. A lot of others are not.

There are two sides to every story, so which is the "superior" one? And if there is an arbitrarily named "superior" one, according to you the Israeli side, what would be the good of looking only at that side?

Succinctly put: Before you go pointing your finger, you might want to take a look at yourself.

A media shows only 1 side of the story so you think there is only 1 way.

I'm fairly sure Sander is level-headed enough to look at both sides of the story. The funny thing here is; you are not.

the audicty of your claims to tell me whats going on in my country is incredible

No it isn't. It is no more audacious than your claims to tell us what's going on in your country. You inhabit one fleck of land of a fairly large country (not large by comparison to others, but large by comparison to the fleck you inhabit). You know at most a few hundred people out of the millions that live that. So what makes you so equiped to tell us what's going as opposed to people that do so for a living? Where's your research, where's your knowledge, more importantly, where's your lack of bias?

Funny thing is, being in a country only gives you more knowledge than the average foreigner, it does not give you more knowledge than the average journalist or expert.

but understandable because you dont live here, all you get from the reality of my country is through tv or internet, i actually walk those street serve in the army and meet the people involved.

Suffer will warn you one more time. Straw men are not allowed. "I live in Israel", "I'm in the army", "I'm totally jewish" are all not arguments, they are straw men. You will cease to use them as a form of debate.

and i am arrogant?

Yes, yes you are.

 

[aegis]

That article makes no mention whatsoever of Israel warning up ahead when firing missiles, which is what you were supposed to prove. Try again

ok, here:
http://www.lebanonlinks.com/special/hundred_thousand_leaflets_dropped.html

i guess you still dont believe-and thats from a lebanon site.

If you were actually arguing in another way than with one-sentence pieces of arrogant propaganda, you'd find the treatment towards you to be much kinder.

ok, if thats what you got from me then i guess we really dont communicate. bye.

 

[Brother None]

ok, here:
http://www.lebanonlinks.com/special/hundred_thousand_leaflets_dropped.html

i guess you still dont believe-and thats from a lebanon site.

Heh, you stated the following:
also what they dont tell is that IDF always announces where he is going to bomb BEFORE, so there really shouldn't be any casualties, unless you dont believe that hizbullah is telling lebanon people to stay in thier house.

Sending out a folder warning people that they really shouldn't be "in the southern suburb of Beirut" hardly counts as proper warning of when and where you're going to bomb. Also, that article is specifically for Beirut.

Your remarks indicate that "there really shouldn't be any casualties", meaning that "innocents" always know exactly when and where the IDF will strike. Which is, of course, ludicrous. There never was any possible way for you to prove that "there really shouldn't be any casualties". Unless of course you expected the Lebanese to flee to North Lebanon en masse when you dropped those leaflets. Then...sure.

ok, if thats what you got from me then i guess we really dont communicate. bye.

Much better.