It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down.

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Akratus, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Trannigan

    Trannigan Banned

    66
    Nov 21, 2015


    I'm absolutely 100 % sure that sales indicate if a product is good quality than a grouping of mostly not even well thought out reviews. Mosts just "game suxorz! 0/10" nonsense that shouldnt be taken any more serious than mindless positive reviews.
     
  2. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    That sounds even worse than Dragon Age 2 combat. I never played Mass Effect 3 because Dragon Age 2 taught me what happens when a developer makes a successful role playing game - they make the sequels awful mass marketed garbage action games presumably because these companies can't climax without bathing in the tears of their original consumer base.

    The exception has been Obsidian, who is very good at taking other developers' games and making better ones (Knights of the Old Republic 2, New Vegas, etc.) and even their own Pillars of Eternity is great.

    Super Bunnyhop did a great comparison of the main quests of Skyrim vs. Morrowind and it pretty much sums up what has happened with Fallout 4:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wujJnlsJh4
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
  3. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    [X] No
    [ ] Sarcastic
    [ ] Maybe
    [ ] Flirt
     
  4. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    With alarming frequency some really good video games do not sell well (Grim Fandango, Okami, Psychonauts, Beyond Good & Evil, etc.) and the "it sold well so it must be good" argument is applied incredibly selectively (hardly anybody ever uses it as a reason to buy Wii Play, Nintendogs, or Just Dance despite those things selling phenomenally.)

    And for what it's worth, I really liked Dragon Age 2, much more than Origins and Inquisition at least.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
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  5. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
     
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  6. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    There is a user that goes by Trannigan on Bethesda Forums. He's completely unreasonable. So here you are after Fallout 4's release, taking a peek inside of NMA and saying that "oh but this sold well, clearly it means it is high quality", which is a dumb argument as there are shitloads of people who play mobile games who are just designed to hook players into a repetition and goad them into microtransactions and those kinds of mobile games are not good games. They're good wallet vacuums. So, yeah, I would say that either you are a troll or you're one of those weird people that think sheep mentality is the greatest thing since Jesus on sliced bread.

    [edit]

    Whether a game is good or not is something that one can only judge by looking at the game's content. Factors outside of the game does not matter unless it is directly related to something inside of the game. Such as if a game is buggy and a big triple a publisher promised to do QA but did a poor job of it and forced the game out when it wasn't ready just so that it wouldn't interfere with their own title they were working on. 'Then' you can bring up that fact when someone criticizes the bugginess of the game. It doesn't mean one can't complain about the bugs. It simply means you have to lay the blame on the right studio. Same thing if a certain part of the game isn't explained properly, a developer can post-launch say what's what about the thing that wasn't fleshed out and it can be accepted as an intended design that sadly never made it but are true non the less. But sales? Sales has nothing to do with anything inside of a game. Whether Fallout 4 sold well or sold like shit the dialogue system would still be a piece of shit, regardless.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
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  7. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    If I had the marketing budget of Bethesda I could sell a million people a literal dog turd. Not a game that was a dog turd - I mean literally, people would pay me for a dog turd. Some people think that advertisers are their friend, and most of those people appear to hang out at the Beth forums.
     
  8. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Wasn't there something that actually sold shit to people? Like, real poop, and people still bought it?
     
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  9. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Probably some postmodern "artist".
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  10. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    There was a story recently about an artist who had one of his works in an exhibit and a janitor or someone threw it away thinking it was actual garbage.
     
  11. Paladin Waffles

    Paladin Waffles You only live twice.

    173
    Nov 17, 2014
    I'm not even remotely surprised about that, thankfully the score still turned out pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMgwB46XD-E Still doesn't compare to origins though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vbc-WBVQwY
     
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  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Artist's shit



    Still better storyline and gameplay than Oblivion and Fallout 3.


    Well, yeah. But which person with a sane mind is taking those serious?

    It also really depends what issues people have. If there thousands of 0/10 reviews where 90% of the reviews go like "Sorry, shit game! Can't even start it due to bugs" than I think those 0/10 could be justified. There are troll reviews in every direction. If you can get F4 runing, it probably is no 0/10. But it is definetly not a 10/10 either. And it definetly is not a quality product based on sales alone. Like I said, the mass market is made for large sales. And it is constnatly mocked for that. Sometimes rightfully, sometimes it is exagerated. A company like Bethesda is selling people Mc Donalds food as filet mignons.

    No one's saying you should not enjoy their products. But you should not try to explain people with a deep love for RPGs that any recently released Bethesda game is the pinacle of RPGs, or even "good" quality, particularly if the strongest argument are sales.

    I mean Fallout 1 did not sell 30 milion copies, and yet it was seen as good enough by Beth to pay millions to buy the licence so they could twist the Fallout franchise to fitt their Elder Scrolls formula. Go figure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
  13. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    If you actually take the time to read the Metacritic reviews, the 9's and 10's almost always begin with "I'm doing this to balance out the low scores because they're just trolls and really like the game" whereas the low and intermediate scores are actually writing out long lists of reasons for their score. The only people complaining about the 0 and 1 scores, which still have good reasons written in their reviews, are the people giving the games 9 and 10 (fanboys - not Fallout fanboys, but Bethesda fanboys). It is a sad state of affairs where children will go to bat for a corporation that exists to take their money and nothing more, all the while believing that they are their friend and must defend them for free.

    If someone scores a game at 0, it is probably because they found it so awful they stopped playing. If I could not play the game because I found it that bad, I'd probably give it a 1 or a 0 too. And the truth is I have to quit playing Fallout 4 sometimes because the voice acting, writing, dialogue, bugs, or something else is so mind-numbingly awful that it makes me literally cringe in my seat. In my mind Fallout 4 is about 5/10, which is where its current User Score sits.

    And on consoles it's not much better - 5/10 and 6/10 for Xbox and Playstation. It is clear: actual users of the product are justifiably disappointed with it, while paid console critics are giving it 100/100. On PC there are at least some professional critics giving the game 60 or 70 out of 100. On consoles, those shill critics are universally calling it the best game ever made with 100/100 scores.

    The User Scores for Fallout 3 and New Vegas were not so unbalanced and Fallout 3 has a User score of 9/10 last time I checked, Witcher 3 has good User Scores as well. It's not trolls - Fallout 4 is a bad game and users do not like what Bethesda has done with a once great RPG. They dislike it even in comparison to Fallout 3.

    I'm sick of people like Jim Sterling who literally yells "F*** KONAMI!" in his ranting YouTube videos for ruining Metal Gear Solid turncoat and claim that we are all unreasonable for pointing out that Fallout 4 is a mediocre game that has been dumbed down for children, has awful writing, and has only had improvements in things that don't matter to Fallout fans - first person shooting, crafting, the dog, Codsworth says your name. He even gave Fallout 4 a higher rating than Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt, and wrote an entire article saying that we're all a bunch of unreasonable trolls full of hate and vitriol if we don't like Fallout 4, using cherry-picked Metacritic user reviews to imply that if we gave Fallout 4 a bad score, it was not to be taken seriously.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
  14. Trannigan

    Trannigan Banned

    66
    Nov 21, 2015
    Whole lot of adorable excuses from illogical clowns who simply want to hate on Bethesda simply for buying a "good" series. Face itclowns Fallout 4 is leagues better than NV or the turds that make up the originals.Bethesda doesnt cate about the irrelevant whining and Fallout 5 will thankfully be more inline with 4 than anything else.
     
  15. Kilus

    Kilus Not Australian Orderite

    May 3, 2003
    Who is Cate and why doesn't Bethesda like her?
     
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  16. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    The reason why you're not geting + Rad here is becuse your half-life is way to short.

    Seriously, does this community even need such posters? We banned people in the past for less reasons. And I doubt that he is here for any other reason but to stir up useless debates and fights.
     
  17. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Vault Fossil

    Jun 15, 2015
    Cate must not be a very nice person.
     
  18. Trannigan

    Trannigan Banned

    66
    Nov 21, 2015
    It's not me who started the bull shit. Some immature clowns on here just cant stand to hear or read anything they dont agree with and god forbid Bethesda gets any positive credit for anything.
     
  19. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    You heard that guys, Michael Bay's Transformers movies are all excellent (sales don't lie).

    Maybe you should check "logical fallacies".

    https://yandoo.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/common-sense-fallacy/
    https://yandoo.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/argumentum-ad-populum-argument-from-popularity/
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
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  20. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Sure we can. If we couldn't then the moderators at this place would probably outright ban anyone with a dissenting opinion. Have you been banned? No? Then I guess we 'can' stand it. We just don't agree with it and will gladly scrutinize it. Or do you think that no one's opinion or arguments should be scrutinized, ever?