Japanese nuclear bomb survivors want Obama to apologize

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by MutantScalper, May 20, 2016.

  1. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Мутанты не допускаются

    Nov 22, 2009
    Obama is about to visit Japan, it will be the first visit by a sitting U.S. president to Hiroshima.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...unds-obamas-planned-visit-hiroshima/84589324/

    Should Obama apologize? IMO yes, I can't see what bad the apology would do. Yes, Japan still has a lot of apologizing to do to China, Korea and other nations. Maybe the US apology would put the ball rolling and get the apologies going.
     
  2. eissa

    eissa Altáriel, Lady of Radiant Garland

    Jan 7, 2016
    a farewell party before being expulsed from white house? why not
     
  3. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    There's nothing to apologize for. It's horrible but the war was Hell. All estimates point to the fact that if we hadn't atom bomb'd Japan, instead of only 100,000 lives lost, it would've been 2 million people. Not just soldiers, civilians too. Better only 100,000 than millions. Maybe that's a cruel way of thinking but honestly I feel that saving many lives holds more value even if the way to save more lives is so terrifying.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  4. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  5. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    A war crime's only a war crime when done to the detriment of everyone. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved over a million and a half lives from more needless war. If the Japanese high command hadn't been so dense/stubborn when it came to the war, it could have been avoided entirely. But they refused to surrender, and thus paid the ultimate price.

    That's just my opinion though, think whatever you want. If you want a real US war crime, go look at what we did in Vietnam.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  6. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    Dude, they bombed 2 civilian cities and killed (I think) over 200,000 non-combatants, regardless of how many lives that saved it is by definition a war crime.
    Yeah, America was certainly less justified with the shit they did in Vietnam, though.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  7. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    Obama wasn't even alive yet when the bombs fell. And a president and nation shouldn't be apologizing for something done so long ago, especially when they were drawn into war by an unprovoked attack.

    Maybe the Japs should stop asking for something they themselves fail to do. Let them first acknowledge (not even apologize) all their war crimes against the Chinese for instance.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 7
  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I have no clue how accurate that is, and there are as always many ways to look at it, it at least gave me a few new points to ponder on.

    The Real Reason America Used Nuclear Weapons Against Japan. It Was Not To End the War Or Save Lives.

    What is also interesting, is the number of scientists which worked on the Manhattan project, actually opossed the use of the nuclear weapon in 1945, as Japan was basically already beaten.

    Anyway, I still don't think that Obama should appologize for it. Not that it would really be wrong if he did.
     
  9. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    It would be a nice gesture of the US to acknowledge what could be considered war crimes. Well, not just the US, all of the Allies, really.
    Japan could also start owning up to their war crimes, while we're at it.
     
  10. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Estimated figure of people killed by Allied forces firebombing in Japan is two to nine hundreds of thousands, much more than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Most of them were civilians, burned alive by napalm, now that's much stronger reason for apology for a war crime.
     
  11. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Same with Dresden. While it's all the rage for some Germans to go "Thanks Bomber Harris Do it again!", it was still kinda not all that cool.
     
  12. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Yep. Slovakia took its share of bombing as well, except that Allied forces dropped conventional bombs on our facilities instead of napalm. Nowhere close to Germany or Japan in terms of civilian casualties, hundreds of our civilians died though.
     
  13. IndignantHedgehog

    IndignantHedgehog It Wandered In From the Wastes

    179
    Jan 7, 2016
    That's one of the main reasons it won't happen. The Japanese government doesn't want an apology, because that would mean they would have to apologize for their war-crimes, which many in the Japanese establishment refuse to even admit. Of the general populous of Japan, I think they largely admit it, but it's treated like Japanese interment camps here int he US, I.E. not taught in textbooks, because that would mean admitting we're not perfect.
     
  14. AskWazzup

    AskWazzup Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2008
  15. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Weren't nuclear bombs prepared for nazi germany originally?

    And BTW, I know it sounds cynical but Japan's intelligence department was really unprofessional if they didn't dig up info about Manhattan Project. And japan wasn't bombed by ICBMs because there weren't invented one, it was delivered by B-29, they got free pass for some reason. Unprofessional.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  16. IndignantHedgehog

    IndignantHedgehog It Wandered In From the Wastes

    179
    Jan 7, 2016
    Japan was broken before the bombs, their government just refused to admit it. American bombing runs were done with impunity. There was nothing Japan could have done. The bombs were dropped simply to avoid a land invasion, which would have cost more lives on both sides. At least the first bomb, the second was unnecessary.
     
  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    To be fair, the way how the allies treated Japan is a part of it as well, as there was not a lot of preasure regarding Unit 741. Just like with project paperclip, in Germany they made a habbit of collectin scientists and data in Japan as well, of projects they saw as usefull. If Japan would have seen something like Doctors Trial in 1946, with actually holding the initators and scientists behind Unit 751 responsible for their actions, things might be a lot different today.
    WW2, had really some very dirty little secrets burried under a lot of history. Particularly when you consider how many Allied prisonerers had to suffer from those human experiments as well.

    As far as I remember, the whole Nuclear program was started because of fear and confusion. It was not clear how far the Nazis have been with their programm. There is a rather famous meeting between Heisenberg and Niels Bohr. Both have very different interpretations of their meeting. TO make it short, Heisenberg wanted to prevent anyone from exploring nuclear weapons, including the Germans, where as Bohr was terrified by the idea of Heisenberg working on one for the Germans - if I remember correctly, that is. Most probably a missunderstanding. But the idea, of the Nazis with a nuclear weapon, was enough to stir up some dust. And which lead to the famous letter send to Truman. But I guess, If they knew at that time, how far the German programm was, they might have never wrote a letter and pushing the idea of the American bomb. But, who could have known that in 1941? The Nazis beat France and Britain was in a rather harsh position. A German bomb must have been a terrifying thought at that time.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  18. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Sure it is. But I was talking about bombing of nazi germany with american nukes. But would it be necessary to bomb Berlin even for good cause judging from Hirosima's experience? Let's pretend soviets didn't took over Berlin and stop nazis for a moment.
     
  19. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    Herein lies the problem. Surrender is anathema to Japanese. Look at battles such as Iwo Jima or Okinawa, which probably weren't really necessary since Japan was pretty much toast already, but they still fought tooth and nail from hand dug caves in volcanic mountains until the last. They'd jump off cliffs commit seppuku before they'd give up. The kamikazes, banzai charges, those dudes they found decades later in the jungles refusing to admit it was over. They probably also thought that we would do to them what they do in places like Nanking or Singapore. That's what they thought those who surrendered deserved.


    Their high command also has to take some blame, there was some context to the bombs being dropped - what did they gain by not unconditionally surrendering before they fell? That was fucking stupid, it was over. It was over after Midway really, couple years of mop up and getting their asses kicked and they still didn't get it.
    Hell, it was over before it started, before the smoke cleared from Pearl Harbor - Yamamoto knew that before the first bomb fell.
     
  20. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Especially when combined with German superior aircrafts being developed. Horten Ho 229 prototype was almost invisible to British radars, powered by jet engine and very fast; further models could've been capable to carry a nuke across the ocean without any possibility to stop him.