Legion Appreciation Thread

[Vanguardbr]

You don't even know that capitalism is do you? 'an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.' Communism is not capitalism, as the state controls everything and they're not doing it for profit. If they did, hospitals wouldn't be free.

Communism is much, MUCH more then simply the state controlling everything. There are no classes and no private property in a real communism for example. You don't know what communism actually is it seems.

If you knew, you would understand why it is "State Capitalism"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

Also capitalism is much more then what you are saying. That definition is simplistic at best, thats why you think China is not capitalism.

Shitty economy from using too much resources to feed their MACHINES to keep producing and running. Humans caused the great war, TECHNOLOGY allowed it to happen.

Also, another fallacy with the opposition argument is that Caesar will stay the same, even when he implies to change the Legion after taking Vegas, hence there could be massive reforms or not. It's too much of an assumption on our side to assume it will be good. Hence this argument is baseless again, because we have nothing really to go on, apart from his military (which should never represent a country or nation).

Doesn't change the point, the economist and leaders were stupid as fuck to let the situation get to that point, there is no guilt in technology itself.

As I said, no one knows what Caesar would bring, ok, but everyone knows that under his regime you are nothing more then a peasant, and you have to obey blindly what Caesar or any future liders say.

This is a problem for a lot of people. Not everyone wants to be Caesar's bitch.

 

[Earth]

Just wanted to point out another "appreciation" thing about the Legion. Voice actors. I can listen to these people speak FOREVER. Seriously, I click onto Caesar, Lanius, Joshua Graham, Vulpes Inculta and Ulysses videos just to hear them speak.

"What of the East? I am the East" sends chills down the spine every time I hear it.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Communism is much, MUCH more then simply the state controlling everything. There are no classes and no private property in a real communism for example. You don't know what communism actually is it seems.

If you knew, you would understand why it is "State Capitalism"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

Also capitalism is much more then what you are saying. That definition is simplistic at best.




Doesn't change the point, the economist and leaders were stupid as fuck to let the situation get to that point, there is no guilt in technology itself.

As I said, no one knows what Caesar would bring, ok, but everyone knows that under his regime you are nothing more then a peasant, and you have to obey blindly what Caesar or any future liders say.

This is a problem for a lot of people. Not everyone wants to be Caesar's bitch.

I know that. However one of the necessary aspects that divides it from socialism is state power. Exactly! Hence China was not capitalist in it's early stages, as there were no 'classes' or private property. Everything was owned by the state, not the people. Otherwise it would have been a form of capitalism. So that last statement? Incorrect.

Funny, because the link isn't working. Can you provide it again?

Ugh, I don't contest that. I do argue that the Great War was ONLY possible in part due to technology. Somehow I doubt there would be world destruction out of pikes and muskets. People made it happen, technology gave them the means to do it.

That depends on his reforms as well. and many regimes work like that anyway. Even the NCR to an extent.

 

[Vergil]

Communism is much, MUCH more then simply the state controlling everything. There are no classes and no private property in a real communism for example. You don't know what communism actually is it seems.

You literally did nothing to disprove that claim. There are no classes and no private property... because communist government controls all the distribution of wealth and land.

 

[Vanguardbr]

You literally did nothing to disprove that claim. There are no classes and no private property... because communist government controls all the distribution of wealth and land.

There are classes, proletarians, who work, and the "bourgueoisie" here is the State burocracy. From the wiki, this are the basics of the capitalist mode of production.

• both the inputs and outputs of production are mainly privately owned, priced goods and services purchased in the market.
• production is carried out for exchange and circulation in the market, aiming to obtain a net profit income from it.
• the owners of the means of production (capitalists) are the dominant class (bourgeoisie) who derive their income from the surplus product produced by the workers and appropriated freely by the capitalists.
• A defining feature of capitalism is the dependency on wage-labor for a large segment of the population; specifically, the working class (proletariat) do not own capital and must live by selling their labour power in exchange for a wage.

China "communism" only difference is the first and the third item, where the state owns every property, so it is nothing more then a subistitute for the bourgeoisie here, thus "State Capitalism".

The labor relationship still the same as in Capitalism, and thats because private property of the production means, but in this case the owner is the State alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_labour

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_mode_of_production_(Marxist_theory)

There still exist a class that works, and they are exploited the same way that in capitalism, there still exist labor alienation. Big difference is that profit doesn't go to private owners, but goes to the State instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_alienation

I know that. However one of the necessary aspects that divides it from socialism is state power. Exactly! Hence China was not capitalist in it's early stages, as there were no 'classes' or private property. Everything was owned by the state, not the people. Otherwise it would have been a form of capitalism. So that last statement? Incorrect.

Funny, because the link isn't working. Can you provide it again?

Ugh, I don't contest that. I do argue that the Great War was ONLY possible in part due to technology. Somehow I doubt there would be world destruction out of pikes and muskets. People made it happen, technology gave them the means to do it.

That depends on his reforms as well. and many regimes work like that anyway. Even the NCR to an extent.

You think he could reform in a way that would bring more civil rights to people, more political participation etc? He seems like a man who think democracy is a weakness.

About China, as I said above, there is still private property, but the only owner is the state. And this because the labor relatioship doesn't change. In fact, very little changes besides taking out the bourgeoisie and planting bureaucracy in its place.

China and USSR can be considered State Capitalism since even before China became "communist" and USSR was born, from the link I posted:

"The term was first used by Wilhelm Liebknecht in 1896 who said: "Nobody has combatted State Socialism more than we German Socialists; nobody has shown more distinctively than I, that State Socialism is really State capitalism!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

Btw this might be relevant:

"According to Marx, the whole purpose of primitive accumulation is to privatize the means of production, so that the exploiting owners can make money from the surplus labour of those who, lacking other means, must work for them.

Marx says that primitive accumulation means the expropriation of the direct producers, and more specifically "the dissolution of private property based on the labor of its owner... Self-earned private property, that is based, so to say, on the fusing together of the isolated, independent laboring-individual with the conditions of his labor, is supplanted by capitalistic private property, which rests on exploitation of the nominally free labor of others, i.e., on wage-labor" (emphasis added)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_accumulation_of_capital

When I say that NCR and Legion are bad, this is the main reason why. What does their expansionism means in practice? Primitive accumulation process! Now betwen Legion and NCR, I prefer the way NCR handles society, at least its a democracy and doesn't have this weird thing about technology.

Better would be for the Mojave not to have factions trying to do that, but oh well, its unavoidable in NV lore I guess, unless its possible to give full powers to the Followers of the Apocalypse, and even so there is no garantee about it. F1 it was possible because of the Master! How would be a society that its actually a hivemind? Full of mutants and shit, how would they organize labor and all that.

 

[Izak]

Just wanted to point out another "appreciation" thing about the Legion. Voice actors. I can listen to these people speak FOREVER. Seriously, I click onto Caesar, Lanius, Joshua Graham, Vulpes Inculta and Ulysses videos just to hear them speak.

"What of the East? I am the East" sends chills down the spine every time I hear it.

It's odd that the NCR doesn't have as many good voice actors as the Legion, Boone is okay I guess, Colonel Hsu is alright maybe. Hell, even General Oliver and President Kimball sound like generic villagers, why does Legion/House/Independence get all the good voice actors?

 

[Ragemage]

It's odd that the NCR doesn't have as many good voice actors as the Legion, Boone is okay I guess, Colonel Hsu is alright maybe. Hell, even General Oliver and President Kimball sound like generic villagers, why does Legion/House/Independence get all the good voice actors?

Honestly I don't mind a lot of the NCR voice actors. I think the main reason is A. There's a hell of a lot more NCR then there are Legion. For every 1 unique Legion voice there's probably 5 NCR ones. Thus they had to spread out the voice actors more. Plus there's also all the generic NCR citizen dialogue to be found on the Strip and Primm's revitalized casino. Plus the Legion has 0 female soldiers to make dialogue for, there's only males and the female slaves, who maybe only have 3 lines a piece. Personally Boyd and the Camp Golf Misfits are brilliantly voiced in my opinion.

 

[Earth]

There are plenty of memorable NCR characters (Boone, Hsu, Boyd, 1st Recon Squad, Ranger Andy, Colonel Moore etc etc.) But due to how few Legion characters we meet by comparison, I think Obsidian realised they needed to make those few characters count, hence the badass voice actors.

EDIT: also

 

[Dr Fallout]

You think he could reform in a way that would bring more civil rights to people, more political participation etc? He seems like a man who think democracy is a weakness.

About China, as I said above, there is still private property, but the only owner is the state. And this because the labor relatioship doesn't change. In fact, very little changes besides taking out the bourgeoisie and planting bureaucracy in its place.

China and USSR can be considered State Capitalism since even before China became "communist" and USSR was born, from the link I posted:

"The term was first used by Wilhelm Liebknecht in 1896 who said: "Nobody has combatted State Socialism more than we German Socialists; nobody has shown more distinctively than I, that State Socialism is really State capitalism!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

Btw this might be relevant:

"According to Marx, the whole purpose of primitive accumulation is to privatize the means of production, so that the exploiting owners can make money from the surplus labour of those who, lacking other means, must work for them.

Marx says that primitive accumulation means the expropriation of the direct producers, and more specifically "the dissolution of private property based on the labor of its owner... Self-earned private property, that is based, so to say, on the fusing together of the isolated, independent laboring-individual with the conditions of his labor, is supplanted by capitalistic private property, which rests on exploitation of the nominally free labor of others, i.e., on wage-labor" (emphasis added)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_accumulation_of_capital

... 'Private property is a legal designation for the ownership of property by non-governmental legal entities. Private property is distinguishable from public property, which is owned by a state entity; and collective property, which is owned by a group of non-governmental entities.'
You have no idea what private property is do you? Hence the Chinese and USSR were NOT capitalist. They were totalitarian communist states. Nuff said.

When I say that NCR and Legion are bad, this is the main reason why. What does their expansionism means in practice? Primitive accumulation process! Now betwen Legion and NCR, I prefer the way NCR handles society, at least its a democracy and doesn't have this weird thing about technology.

Better would be for the Mojave not to have factions trying to do that, but oh well, its unavoidable in NV lore I guess, unless its possible to give full powers to the Followers of the Apocalypse, and even so there is no garantee about it. F1 it was possible because of the Master! How would be a society that its actually a hivemind? Full of mutants and shit, how would they organize labor and all that.

The NCR is a joke of a democracy. The Legion doesn't have a weird thing about tech! They just understand the dangers of it and the scarcity.

The Followers would fall apart from infighting and possible independent factions fighting each other for dominance. Yeah the Master was any better then the Legion.

 

[Vanguardbr]

... 'Private property is a legal designation for the ownership of property by non-governmental legal entities. Private property is distinguishable from public property, which is owned by a state entity; and collective property, which is owned by a group of non-governmental entities.'
You have no idea what private property is do you? Hence the Chinese and USSR were NOT capitalist. They were totalitarian communist states. Nuff said.

We have two options here, either you haven't read what I posted, or you didn't understand it. Whatever, its not important for this discussion anyways.

The NCR is a joke of a democracy. The Legion doesn't have a weird thing about tech! They just understand the dangers of it and the scarcity.

The Followers would fall apart from infighting and possible independent factions fighting each other for dominance. Yeah the Master was any better then the Legion.

I'd still prefer a joke of a democracy, then a joke of a police state commanded by one lunatic that has serious interpretation problems when the subject is history. Not to mention the rest of his gang, lovely fellas.

Also, I do believe that everyone knows that technology can be dangerous, and its pretty obvious the general scarcity surrounding the Mojave. It still is a fallacy as I see it tbh.

 

[Dr Fallout]

We have two options here, either you haven't read what I posted, or you didn't understand it. Whatever, its not important for this discussion anyways.



I'd still prefer a joke of a democracy, then a joke of a police state commanded by one lunatic that has serious interpretation problems when the subject is history. Not to mention the rest of his gang, lovely fellas.

Actually it's even simpler! You either don't understand the definition of private property or just don't care!

Yeah, a democracy where we get tons of civilian life info, and a lot of it is shitty, or a military police states where we have little information.

 

[Vanguardbr]

Actually it's even simpler! You either don't understand the definition of private property or just don't care!

Well mate, I explained why China is not communism in that wall of text up there, if you could read it again, you would see that I said that Capitalism is not only "private property", but a series of things, like labor relationship and all that.

You are simplistic as fuck when you say "there is no private property in china, thus china = communism". This reductionism shows that you either don't know, or don't care about what actually is capitalism as a mode of production, neither what would be Communism. All those links I posted contains concepts that will help you understand why China is capitalism, why USSR was capitalism, why even North Korea is fucking capitalism.

But you would have to read them, I would love to explain it to you myself but I'm afraid my english is shit, and I would have to write a shitload of text tbh because the subject is rather complex. So, those links have useful concepts to understand capitalism as a mode of production. Once you understand that, you will see why China, even with the state owning everything, is still capitalism.

Yeah, a democracy where we get tons of civilian life info, and a lot of it is shitty, or a military police states where we have little information.

Yes, I know that NCR can be pretty shitty, its sad that we can only suppose things about the Legion. But here is the thing, what reasons do I have to suppose that life under Legion regime is good? By what I see from Caesar and his gang, I suppose its pretty shitty and makes NCR look good even.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Well mate, I explained why China is not communism in that wall of text up there, if you could read it again, you would see that I said that Capitalism is not only "private property", but a series of things, like labor relationship and all that.

You are simplistic as fuck when you say "there is no private property in china, thus china = communism". This reductionism shows that you either don't know, or don't care about what actually is capitalism as a mode of production, neither what would be Communism. All those links I posted contains concepts that will help you understand why China is capitalism, why USSR was capitalism, why even North Korea is fucking capitalism.

But you would have to read them, I would love to explain it to you myself but I'm afraid my english is shit, and I would have to write a shitload of text tbh because the subject is rather complex. So, those links have useful concepts to understand capitalism as a mode of production. Once you understand that, you will see why China, even with the state owning everything, is still capitalism.



Yes, I know that NCR can be pretty shitty, its sad that we can only suppose things about the Legion. But here is the thing, what reasons do I have to suppose that life under Legion regime is good? By what I see from Caesar and his gang, I suppose its pretty shitty and makes NCR look good even.

Oh I did, and China is capitalist now anyway. Actually it's not, it's really at it's most basic private properties and profit. The labor relationship can change irregardless of a Capitalist society, and many capitalist countries have very good working conditions. Also capitalism does NOT try to actively suppress socialist style businesses, unless supported by the government.

Being basic does not mean you're wrong. If I say a tennis ball falls, I'm being simplistic but it's still fully valid and true. Also, you don't even understand what I'm saying. I have not said that no capitalism equals communism, I'm saying that China used to be a self proclaimed communist country, and as there was no capitalism then that meant they WERE communists as they claimed. Hence here you ignore my points to attack a incorrectly conceived notion. I have looked at the links, and a lot of information is valid however they've failed in the criteria. While China is state capitalist NOW it wasn't during it's inception. Mainly because profit was not the aim of the Chinese, but continuation of the revolution and stability. The same goes for Russia. I do not dispute that they became state socialists later on, but I dispute that they were created with it in mind (both were created with the idea of socialist labor and revolutionary ideals). Sadly Mao and Stalin perverted these to feed their industries, not for profit but for protection and to raise their countries equal to capitalistic society. They laid the groundwork though.

My problem with this is that, well that means EVERYTHING is capitalist.

 

[Vanguardbr]

Oh I did, and China is capitalist now anyway. Actually it's not, it's really at it's most basic private properties and profit. The labor relationship can change irregardless of a Capitalist society, and many capitalist countries have very good working conditions. Also capitalism does NOT try to actively suppress socialist style businesses, unless supported by the government.

Being basic does not mean you're wrong. If I say a tennis ball falls, I'm being simplistic but it's still fully valid and true. Also, you don't even understand what I'm saying. I have not said that no capitalism equals communism, I'm saying that China used to be a self proclaimed communist country, and as there was no capitalism then that meant they WERE communists as they claimed. Hence here you ignore my points to attack a incorrectly conceived notion. I have looked at the links, and a lot of information is valid however they've failed in the criteria. While China is state capitalist NOW it wasn't during it's inception. Mainly because profit was not the aim of the Chinese, but continuation of the revolution and stability. The same goes for Russia. I do not dispute that they became state socialists later on, but I dispute that they were created with it in mind (both were created with the idea of socialist labor and revolutionary ideals). Sadly Mao and Stalin perverted these to feed their industries, not for profit but for protection and to raise their countries equal to capitalistic society. They laid the groundwork though.

My problem with this is that, well that means EVERYTHING is capitalist.

Yes thats my point! I don't really see USSR and China as communist, even during their inception because the big problem with Mao and Lenin, in my opinion, is that although they wanted to do what you say, continue the revolution and create stability, they used the capitalist mode of production to archive it.

Labour was still exploited, not by a private person but by the State here; although profit was not the aim, there was still profit being made from work, but it goes to the State instead of a private owner; labour alienation still happens under Mao and Lenin's regime, worker is now alienated to the state, that now owns every properties and thus the worker still has no control over his reality; there are still classes, because the worker doesn't own the mean of production and thus has to sell his work force to the State's bureaucracy, so we have bureucrats on one side, proletarians in the other.

What I mean is that these man, as I see it, only changed who controls the capitalist mode of production, they couldn't archive much more then that, thus it was never really communism because it kept way too much elements from the capitalist mode of production to be something notably different, like communism would be. Lenin and Mao failed theoretically in my opinion, not completely because they wrote about a lot of shit right, its interesting what Lenin has to say about imperialism for example, but their socialist plan was flawed.

For example none of these things I told ya, profit, labour exploitation and alienation would be present in a communist society, I find very hard to accept China and USSR as examples of communism tbh eheh

Man I'm very sorry if I offended you, wasn't the intention really.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Yes thats my point! I don't really see USSR and China as communist, even during their inception because the big problem with Mao and Lenin, in my opinion, is that although they wanted to do what you say, continue the revolution and create stability, they used the capitalist mode of production to archive it.

Labour was still exploited, not by a private person but by the State here; although profit was not the aim, there was still profit being made from work, but it goes to the State instead of a private owner; labour alienation still happens under Mao and Lenin's regime, worker is now alienated to the state, that now owns every properties and thus the worker still has no control over his reality; there are still classes, because the worker doesn't own the mean of production and thus has to sell his work force to the State's bureaucracy, so we have bureucrats on one side, proletarians in the other.

What I mean is that these man, as I see it, only changed who controls the capitalist mode of production, they couldn't archive much more then that, thus it was never really communism because it kept way too much elements from the capitalist mode of production to be something notably different, like communism would be. Lenin and Mao failed theoretically in my opinion, not completely because they wrote about a lot of shit right, its interesting what Lenin has to say about imperialism for example, but their socialist plan was flawed.

For example none of these things I told ya, profit, labour exploitation and alienation would be present in a communist society, I find very hard to accept China and USSR as examples of communism tbh eheh

Man I'm very sorry if I offended you, wasn't the intention really.

Fair enough. I don't see the capitalist mode of production until Stalin's collectivization programs. If anything Mao gave control of the farms to the farmers in the early stages of stability, which is very much not capitalist as the worker classes owned the farms themselves, for the states benefit of course.

As I have pointed out there are examples of the socialist method during the early stages of the USSR and China. Farms were given to the farmers for them to run. Actually the profit was quickly used to make lot's of industry. The country and state was still poor due to the massive spending, hence there wasn't much profit. Only due to necessity. They had the tough job of repairing a nation from war, poverty and the mismanagement of the earlier regime. However at the same time women were respected due to many going into factories and military duties. Actually the bureaucrats were just workers who chose other jobs due to their expertise or skills.

I understand what you mean, but instead of attributing the failure of socialist policy (which sadly is still failed) but more due to the failure of Stalin and later Mao. They became dictators and became imperialist hypocrites. However the USSR did improve worker living conditions, which is a success I guess. Lenin would have possibly succeeded, but that's left to Human nature to decide.

Fair enough, I see what you're getting there but many of those things either didn't happen (profit? Yeah, the system bankrupted the USSR) or were needed to establish the nation as a power.

Nah don't think nothing about it.

 

[Izak]

The entire argument about capitalism/communism's role in the fall of the Fallout universe is pointless, if American propaganda is to be believed (yes I know it's propaganda but it's literally our only source of information on China, unless the Fallout bible says otherwise), then China is a hardline Communist republic where all ties to capitalism have been cut.
Otherwise good points everyone! I learned some stuff about the nature of Chinese economics and the relations between capitalism and communism that I frankly didn't expect to learn from an appreciation thread for a fictional Roman inspired Mongol empire, thanks for the knowledge!

 

[DVL]

Just wanted to point out another "appreciation" thing about the Legion. Voice actors. I can listen to these people speak FOREVER. Seriously, I click onto Caesar, Lanius, Joshua Graham, Vulpes Inculta and Ulysses videos just to hear them speak.

"What of the East? I am the East" sends chills down the spine every time I hear it.

I enjoy the grand tradition of talking to your boss fights down.
Hello hello. Planescape. KOTOR 2.
There's a kind of dramatic fulfillment in talking an immortal Sith into willingly surrendering his grip on life.

The entire argument about capitalism/communism's role in the fall of the Fallout universe is pointless, if American propaganda is to be believed (yes I know it's propaganda but it's literally our only source of information on China, unless the Fallout bible says otherwise), then China is a hardline Communist republic where all ties to capitalism have been cut.

Time has actually made me regard the whole McCarthy-era fear of communism to be a Bethesda-ism. By which I mean, "utterly shit."
The only information we're ever given about the intial causes of the war was that there was "too many people and not enough resources" and these Resource Wars led into the apocalypse. In other words, Bethesda is just saying that it's the 50's all the time.

Think about the real world. Our concerns about Russia and China have nothing to do with communism.
It literally does boil down to, "Too many people, not enough resources."
The idea that America is screaming about COMMUNISM for well over a hundred years is just too stupid to believe.

 

[Dr Fallout]

The entire argument about capitalism/communism's role in the fall of the Fallout universe is pointless, if American propaganda is to be believed (yes I know it's propaganda but it's literally our only source of information on China, unless the Fallout bible says otherwise), then China is a hardline Communist republic where all ties to capitalism have been cut.
Otherwise good points everyone! I learned some stuff about the nature of Chinese economics and the relations between capitalism and communism that I frankly didn't expect to learn from an appreciation thread for a fictional Roman inspired Mongol empire, thanks for the knowledge!

Welcome. I also find debates where real life knowledge has been added in stimulating and educational, whether one sided or not. It's why I love Creationist/Evolutionist debates. I learn tons more on biology and enjoy seeing creationists being verbally spanked.

 

[Vanguardbr]

The entire argument about capitalism/communism's role in the fall of the Fallout universe is pointless, if American propaganda is to be believed (yes I know it's propaganda but it's literally our only source of information on China, unless the Fallout bible says otherwise), then China is a hardline Communist republic where all ties to capitalism have been cut.
Otherwise good points everyone! I learned some stuff about the nature of Chinese economics and the relations between capitalism and communism that I frankly didn't expect to learn from an appreciation thread for a fictional Roman inspired Mongol empire, thanks for the knowledge!

The only information we're ever given about the intial causes of the war was that there was "too many people and not enough resources" and these Resource Wars led into the apocalypse. In other words, Bethesda is just saying that it's the 50's all the time.

Yes! I wish we had more info about what made USA and China declare war in the first place. I mean, 15 years before the war started, how was the geopolitical picture of the world? Who was the USA leader, who was in control of China? Didn't they tryied diplomatic solutions? Why it failed? How was the social economical system, that lead to such a populational explosion and was so broken when the subject is preserving resources? How did chinese communism work, because if they had the same problems as USA were having, there were something wrong there in my opinion.

Sometimes I think that the man who give us the lore about pre war on F1 intro was more of a poethic thing that in the end didn't really explained why the war happened. "Too many people, not enough resources" sounds like isn't enough for a nuclear war, but it does sounds great and it does make some sense, its just way too simplistic as I see it.

I might be talking shit here, because I really don't know if we have any document that explain the pre-war world in Fallout series, so I could be thinking this way because I'm ignorant on the subject. Help would be apreciated to understand it!

-Edit:
By what he says here

Seems like a private property problem. Who would control the little resources we have left? Btw, fucking amazing this intro, really well made. I really like the serious tone F1 had.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Agreed, Fallout 1 really gets the Post Apocalypse theme. The entire game is thematically appropriate in it's art style and story. By the way, have you seen the Fallout Bible timeline? That can give you tons of info.