Dr Fallout
Centurion
Umm the NCR have barely anything to explain or add. They're literally American government with different uniforms and people running it.
Legion Appreciation Thread
- Thread starter Dr Fallout
- Start date
mrchaos
Super Orc
I can see the Legion being showed has a well intended extremist and the NCR being an over the top nation obsessed with democracy.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Possibly. There's a lot possible with a Legion victory.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
XCOM 2 had the aliens winning as the premise, so having the "antagonist" force winning as a canon ending in a modern game isn't a pipe dream anymore. It doesn't seem very likely that Bethesda will allow Obsidian to explore a risky idea like that, but here's hoping.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
It would be fantastic in my opinion if they were allowed to do that. The Legion victory is actually better for the story not for the people living in the world.
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
Honestly I'd prefer it if they simply left the ending ambiguous. There's too much that goes into every player's experience that ships the ending, I would honestly hate it if they did pick a canon ending for the game. Considering how many different choices the players can make, how different each ending is in terms of what would happen to the Mojave and the West Coast as a whole, etc etc, I'd just prefer if they left it alone.
However, if they did pick a canon ending, the best way I'd prefer for them to do it would be to make a giant poll or something to see which ending of NV people liked the most and then they go with that one. Personally I would be for Mr. House or the NCR, they create the most stability and Mr. House, combined with a good Courier's knowledge of the Big MT and the Sierra Madre's fancy machines that can make just about anything, those 2 could achieve great things. Mr. House is a pre-war genius after all, he's the reason we have all these robots running around to begin with, every single one of them. Would he be a dictator? Probably, but I mean, in the good ending with Mr. House it mentions our Courier keeping him in line and making sure he does what's best for the people rather than himself. I'm sure if Mr. House was left to his own devices he would just turn Vegas into a snow globe, but with the Courier there to keep him in check, I feel like the Mojave would become a paradise, especially with all the money House will be raking in.
Plus, unlike Caesar, House has no intentions of allowing himself to become deified by the people of the Wastes. He simply wants to lead and make things better, unlike Caesar who basically created a cult of personality, which is ultimately the Legion's downfall. Plus even with the amazing inventions from the Big MT and the Sierra Madre, Caesar would never want to use any of it because he's anti-technology.
However, if they did pick a canon ending, the best way I'd prefer for them to do it would be to make a giant poll or something to see which ending of NV people liked the most and then they go with that one. Personally I would be for Mr. House or the NCR, they create the most stability and Mr. House, combined with a good Courier's knowledge of the Big MT and the Sierra Madre's fancy machines that can make just about anything, those 2 could achieve great things. Mr. House is a pre-war genius after all, he's the reason we have all these robots running around to begin with, every single one of them. Would he be a dictator? Probably, but I mean, in the good ending with Mr. House it mentions our Courier keeping him in line and making sure he does what's best for the people rather than himself. I'm sure if Mr. House was left to his own devices he would just turn Vegas into a snow globe, but with the Courier there to keep him in check, I feel like the Mojave would become a paradise, especially with all the money House will be raking in.
Plus, unlike Caesar, House has no intentions of allowing himself to become deified by the people of the Wastes. He simply wants to lead and make things better, unlike Caesar who basically created a cult of personality, which is ultimately the Legion's downfall. Plus even with the amazing inventions from the Big MT and the Sierra Madre, Caesar would never want to use any of it because he's anti-technology.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Ugh, NCR is boring. It's literally just NCR expansion and the formation of the second American government. And Mr House just leaves the Mojave as it is, causing little change and creating a boring and limited ending. Now the Legion... that opens tons of possibilities.
Why have the courier go through all the trouble of dealing with Mr. House and not just rule himself?
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
Mr. House doesn't leave the Mojave as it is though. Like he said himself, 10 years down the line? He'll have the Mojave cleaned up with his unlimited army of securitrons. 20 years down the line? The reinvention of space travel. A few more years down the line? Space colonies. We know space colonies are a possibility, it's what the Enclave was working on before they got the shit nuked out of their home base, and that was decades before NV.
Not to mention all the technology from Big MT and the Sierra Madre that could greatly benefit House's space exploration. Those sierra madre slot machine things can basically make anything from what's inside the chips. Hell, before the bombs dropped they were working on making them for the military to make ammo and whatnot. The possibilities are endless with Mr. House and the technology found throughout the game.
The problem with the Legion is that instead of going foward, we go backwards, and not using any of this wonderful future tech seems like a complete waste to me. House would not only use it, but probably in all likelihood make it better, he's a super genius after all. Plus, imagine if he started selling his immortality machine to people? That's even more money, and with the Big MT's tons of tech he might even find a way to improve the immortality machine so it doesn't make the user look like a moldy grey potato.
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
Do you really think the Courier would be able to figure out how to use all that technology himself? Not likely. No, Mr. House is a literal genius and would not only be able to use the technology for the betterment of everyone, but he would definitely be able to improve it. Mr. House knows all about the Old World, how tech worked back then, about space travel, about oil resources, pretty much everything you need to restart the world. The Courier wouldn't know any of this, and more importantly, he wouldn't be able to learn any of it considering most of the Old World's knowledge is destroyed. Mr. House is one of the last great minds uncorrupted by the war, and I think it's best to use that brilliant brain instead of trying to run things yourself. He's had 200 years to think through this entire plan and how he's going to accomplish it, I'd trust him with the future.
House only cares about the Strip and turning into his ideal paradise. Also the Courier's intelligence is determinant. He can be the smartest man alive if you want him to be or he can be running at a sub 80 IQ depending on how you play him.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Oh that's what he says, though I doubt he's going to do it. It's just one of his way to get the courier to do what he wants. And remember, while I agree it's not about the betterment of the Mojave it's about what would work better as a sequel. And a futuristic world DOES NOT work for Fallout. It betrays the core tenets of Fallout. The Legion are shitty (though not that bad) but they make a very good sequel story, as they keep the Fallout theme and make a whole new political and story canvas for the West Coast. So in a way, the Mr House ending you put up is the worst for another game.
Also, the courier is what you make him. Why does everyone think he's an idiot? I played a Super intelligent scientist who liked to belittle House for his own flaws and problems.
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
Hm, fair enough point, though if we have to have what's essentially the worst ending for a sequel to happen, then I hope there isn't a sequel. I like the Legion, I do, they're a very interesting lawful evil type of society, but to quote Mr. House before I beat him to death with Nephi's 9-Iron in my Legion run, "Slavery.. The future of mankind? What have you done?!"
The other issue is, even if the Legion does win, how would they lead to another game outside of resetting everything back to Fallout 1 levels of development? The second Caesar dies the Legion implodes in on itself. Other than him and maybe like 3 other people he actually told, no one in the Legion knows that their society is based off an over 3000 year old system of government. Plus, they think he's God. Gods can't die, now can they? It would just completely demoralize the entire Legion and revolts would spread like wildfire when they realize how much they've been lied to. I really think the Legion would pretty much lose its identity overnight once Caesar kicks the bucket. Any counterarguments to this? I want to agree with you that the Legion would lead to a decent sequel, but I just feel like that unless it takes place only a few years after New Vegas, there wouldn't be a Legion in the sequel because they would have destroyed themselves when Caesar dies.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
THAT'S GOOD!!!
The collapse of the Legion would lead to a whole a civil war, with different factions and various other interesting and creative ideas. It resets the scene without nuking everyone! It allows for open creativity and new stories, without using shitty excuses like nukes!
The collapse of the Legion would lead to a whole a civil war, with different factions and various other interesting and creative ideas. It resets the scene without nuking everyone! It allows for open creativity and new stories, without using shitty excuses like nukes!
Ragemage
Wept for Zion
I guess I did kinda prove your point in my own post didn't I? Well played.
Spacemunkey
Vault Senior Citizen
A better sequel would be an NCR victory where they think to chase the Legion down only to run into the fuck all war machine in Arizona. In this scenario Lanius is killed because of his loss and Ceaser is crucified by a group led by Vulpes that was secretly building power for years.
Ninja
Who?
I think the bit where the NCR chases down the Legion is good, but instead of running into some giant beast it runs into a huge clusterfuck of Legion dissenters, like how Ragemage suggested. The Vuples thing feels kind of contrived, and I really like the idea of a civil war after Caesar dies. It may seem simple, but sometimes that's what you need.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Civil war is better in my opinion. It makes sense and can be open to so much interpretation.
Thanks, and yes you did, though I see your points. Remember, while I love the Legion I am well aware they will collapse soon. However, I bet that good writers could really make the collapse spectacular and interesting, full of civil war's, factions and interesting characters. It's really open and won't need some contrived excuse to make it happen. It would keep the spirit of Fallout alive and keep the game from becoming too civilized.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
A game about the fall of the Legion could be fucking spectacular! You'd have a bunch of fanatics all emulating historical/mythological characters (like Spartacus, Romulus/Remus, Augustus Etc.) that they don't actually have an understanding of all warring against each other for control of the Legion; meanwhile the army slowly falls apart as they regress to their tribal ways and fall to the mercilessly expanding NCR.