Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
Shit, I didn't know they had Denver, all Obsidian has to do is rip off the Van Buren design documents and then we could have a great Fallout game with a heavy Legion influence.
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Legion Appreciation Thread
- Thread starter Dr Fallout
- Start date
Canon has it that brain bots have none of their original personality left, the brain is just a CPU. OWB and the rest of New Vegas reinforces this. House is in a coffin, with the body intact. Rex doesn't have the personality of the donor that gives him a new brain, just its memories or some quirks. All it took Mobius was programming and manipulating data. Messing with chronometers and maps and "loops" or whatever.
And they had rather poor grasp of human anatomy. (A handful of fully erect penises!) And only a vague grasp of their past lives at all or the War. Klein has a vague impression that Ulysses got sensitive information he shouldn't have let slip (i.e. nukes). Even if you account for the fact that you have a really loose grasp of time, that's just . . . odd.
And I don't think Elijah really messed with much more than basic security stuff. And even if he did, dang, that's really fragile.
So whatever technology they're using to get around the complete loss of their personality isn't perfect. Essentially, New Vegas canon says that the brain isn't the exclusive seat of the human soul. The body is required.
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Dr Fallout
Centurion
Well after Mobius changed their data they started to degrade at fast pace, on what I think is a diet of B-grade sci-fi movies and pulp science fiction.
If the Courier wanted to live forever I'm sure he'd just hop on down to Big MT and put his Brain back in it's case and just keep making artificial ones to put in Robot bodies.
superdude34
Mad Grave Robber
The question that must be asked is; Are the Legion a bunch of idiotic Luddites? I am not convinced. they are a highly mechanised and huge army, controlling almost all of Arizona. pretty much most of the area around arizona too. Life as a subject of the legion is pretty peachy, compared to other places. I found this off a wiki somewhere.
"People who live in Legion towns enjoy a stable, consistent flow of electricity and water, a steady and ample food supply, and very low crime and corruption levels. They enjoy safe and productive lives with one caveat: never disobey or disturb the Legion. Caesar's men only ask once and the order has to be carried out without question, even if it means resettling fifty miles away at a moment's notice. This generally means that Legion subjects have little, if any, political freedom, rights, or say in what happens to their communities. However, if one keeps quiet, goes about their business and fulfills the rare request the Legion has, then Caesar is a peaceful and caring lord. Many people don't consider this a problem, as even before Caesar's rise, they had little say in the chaotic wastes.
NCR, as someone accurately pointed out earlier, is a "potentially corrupt democratic military force".
To quote Mr House "If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows". bombed, blasted smashed wasteland. (I know well the Mojave wasteland is the same as today's desert pretty much, I refer to the Capitol wasteland) I would surely pick Legion over NCR because of this alone. I also just cant stand the concept of the NCR. It just pisses me off, in F:NV I wanna be a lone wolf courier, not part of a collective greater good heap of bullshit.
I did go with House quite a few times, he is cool.
Someone also said earlier about how cool a collapse of the dominant Legion would be.
It would be fun to watch the Legion in fight violently after Caesar's legion after Caesar dies. Interesting to watch the shit hit the fan, big time. the consequences this power battle has on the people of the wasteland.
Most of the reasons people dislike Legion is because they appear to be solely a military slaver society.
The aforementioned wiki thing is what the north of the Mojave was meant to be like, if Legion weren't criminally underdeveloped because of Bethesdas bullshit schedule.
fucking bethesda, the glorious gods of fallout and ES. yeah my grimy arse is fallout 4 a fallout game.
"People who live in Legion towns enjoy a stable, consistent flow of electricity and water, a steady and ample food supply, and very low crime and corruption levels. They enjoy safe and productive lives with one caveat: never disobey or disturb the Legion. Caesar's men only ask once and the order has to be carried out without question, even if it means resettling fifty miles away at a moment's notice. This generally means that Legion subjects have little, if any, political freedom, rights, or say in what happens to their communities. However, if one keeps quiet, goes about their business and fulfills the rare request the Legion has, then Caesar is a peaceful and caring lord. Many people don't consider this a problem, as even before Caesar's rise, they had little say in the chaotic wastes.
NCR, as someone accurately pointed out earlier, is a "potentially corrupt democratic military force".
To quote Mr House "If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows". bombed, blasted smashed wasteland. (I know well the Mojave wasteland is the same as today's desert pretty much, I refer to the Capitol wasteland) I would surely pick Legion over NCR because of this alone. I also just cant stand the concept of the NCR. It just pisses me off, in F:NV I wanna be a lone wolf courier, not part of a collective greater good heap of bullshit.
I did go with House quite a few times, he is cool.
Someone also said earlier about how cool a collapse of the dominant Legion would be.
It would be fun to watch the Legion in fight violently after Caesar's legion after Caesar dies. Interesting to watch the shit hit the fan, big time. the consequences this power battle has on the people of the wasteland.
Most of the reasons people dislike Legion is because they appear to be solely a military slaver society.
The aforementioned wiki thing is what the north of the Mojave was meant to be like, if Legion weren't criminally underdeveloped because of Bethesdas bullshit schedule.
fucking bethesda, the glorious gods of fallout and ES. yeah my grimy arse is fallout 4 a fallout game.
Spacemunkey
Vault Senior Citizen
I agree with them being underdeveloped, but no amount of Legion territory would have changed them from being a militaristic slaver society. Any venture into their area would have only shown that a military dictatorship is efficient in ruling and putting dissenters on a cross. That's not say I didn't wan't to see life in the Legion lands, but it seems like you're romanticizing the idea of them being something they aren't simply because we only got to see the tip of the spear.
superdude34
Mad Grave Robber
I understand your point clearly. The thing is, I am not romanticising here. This, most likely, is the truth about legion territory. Allow me to make another point about the advantages of living in legion territory, if you will.
Dale Barton often prefers to trade in Legion territories, saying that he finds it cheaper as he rarely has to hire protection or pay extortionate taxes, due to the effectiveness of Legion suppression of raiders and wasteland creatures. Even Rose of Sharon Cassidy has admitted to admiring Legion-controlled areas, as they attract traders, merchants, and wastelander communities in general to their high level of safety, especially when compared to NCR territories and uncontrolled regions.
All the raiders and thugs are not in Legion territory, because they have either been crucified or run off.
Stable, consistent flow of electricity and water, a steady and ample food supply. This is feasible, given clean water supplies are safe, protected from bandits and other people. There isnt any overconsumption of things, or greed, because you dont wanna have your hands chopped off for being greedy.
The same goes for food sources and farms. Farmers can constantly focus on actual farming, not pissing themselves about criminals and thieves.
The Thaler Act is an act set by the New California Republic Congress.
Under provisions of the act, farmers from New California of the NCR would be given pay and military protection in exchange for moving to the Mojave Wasteland and farming the land to provide food to the Republic. Millitary protection from NCR Isn't so great, given most NCR troops are given 2 weeks training only, and the NCR army is overstretched. You would probably be assigned a squad, at best.
Unlike the legion, who have no shoratge of consumate warriors.
An example of the implementation of this act is the NCR Share cropper Farms. High crop quotas are set for farmers who partake in the program; water rationing and bad soil have resulted in setbacks in crop quality, however.
The Legion appears to have better agriculture than NCR. No water rationing, maybe bad soil, but they have the space to move about and find good soil, not stuck in one hovel in the Mojave.
As I said earlier, the bandits have either been crucified or run off. People share, (sharing is rare in the wasteland), because of the stringent order. people THINK before they DO, because their is a big bad bruiser of a legionary ready to fucking trounce you. If you DO think before you do, Mr Legionary is not your enemy.
Edit: Caesar executes gays, or so the rumour mill says. *Before I get started I am not a homophobic person, I have not got an issue with gays*.
In the wasteland though, its different. The USA's population went down from 450 million people to about 10 million when the bombs fell. It is not reasonable at all to be gay in an era where humans need to reproduce desperately, for fear of extinction.
Thanks for your reply
Dale Barton often prefers to trade in Legion territories, saying that he finds it cheaper as he rarely has to hire protection or pay extortionate taxes, due to the effectiveness of Legion suppression of raiders and wasteland creatures. Even Rose of Sharon Cassidy has admitted to admiring Legion-controlled areas, as they attract traders, merchants, and wastelander communities in general to their high level of safety, especially when compared to NCR territories and uncontrolled regions.
All the raiders and thugs are not in Legion territory, because they have either been crucified or run off.
Stable, consistent flow of electricity and water, a steady and ample food supply. This is feasible, given clean water supplies are safe, protected from bandits and other people. There isnt any overconsumption of things, or greed, because you dont wanna have your hands chopped off for being greedy.
The same goes for food sources and farms. Farmers can constantly focus on actual farming, not pissing themselves about criminals and thieves.
The Thaler Act is an act set by the New California Republic Congress.
Under provisions of the act, farmers from New California of the NCR would be given pay and military protection in exchange for moving to the Mojave Wasteland and farming the land to provide food to the Republic. Millitary protection from NCR Isn't so great, given most NCR troops are given 2 weeks training only, and the NCR army is overstretched. You would probably be assigned a squad, at best.
Unlike the legion, who have no shoratge of consumate warriors.
An example of the implementation of this act is the NCR Share cropper Farms. High crop quotas are set for farmers who partake in the program; water rationing and bad soil have resulted in setbacks in crop quality, however.
The Legion appears to have better agriculture than NCR. No water rationing, maybe bad soil, but they have the space to move about and find good soil, not stuck in one hovel in the Mojave.
As I said earlier, the bandits have either been crucified or run off. People share, (sharing is rare in the wasteland), because of the stringent order. people THINK before they DO, because their is a big bad bruiser of a legionary ready to fucking trounce you. If you DO think before you do, Mr Legionary is not your enemy.
Edit: Caesar executes gays, or so the rumour mill says. *Before I get started I am not a homophobic person, I have not got an issue with gays*.
In the wasteland though, its different. The USA's population went down from 450 million people to about 10 million when the bombs fell. It is not reasonable at all to be gay in an era where humans need to reproduce desperately, for fear of extinction.
Thanks for your reply
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Juza The Cloud
Nanto Goshasei
The Legion gets often labeled as luddite but you see that the higher the ranks the better the gear and tech is. The Legion is technologicaly metrocratic with more tech being granted for greater loyalty. One could imagine in the synthesis new civilization the rules on tech would be different then with a large tribal army.
superdude34
Mad Grave Robber
It is incorrect to treat their technology as primitive. As simple as regular combat gear is, the Legion is capable of erecting large fortifications out of scrap (e.g. Fortification Hill encampment) and mass producing standardized weapons and armor for its footmen. In fact, the armor and weapons of higher ranking soldiers compares favorably to the NCR. In major battles, centurions will use rather advanced weaponry such as anti-materiel rifles, Marksman carbines, and super sledges. The personal guards of Caesar themselves are equipped with high tech Ballistic fists to complement their martial prowess - Fallout Wikia.
This isn't a raider gang. This is a total war machine.
This isn't a raider gang. This is a total war machine.
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Luddism isn't about just having a neat gun. It's about how highly your culture regards intellectual pursuits. Which is to say, probably not very much. They're an authoritarian society with very limited personal liberty and some economic liberty.
It's reasonable they have access to stockpiles of Pre-War weapons that they rounded up and can maintain them, but I don't believe they have a strong interest in science or technology as a particular aim. Not in the way the Brotherhood or House do. But there is no standardization to the armaments in the way that the NCR has some sort of AR-15 style "service rifle."
They also look upon askance if you're a weakling who needs meds for his heart. And even that seems to be impermissible for any Legionary with status. The player character is a profligate until proven otherwise. And Caesar only permits privileges to you as a kind of special case exception. He's only interested in filling boots for the moment, so it's in his interest to foster this sort of elitism and go for fit young men.
There's a reason Arcade Gannon hates them on principle as a Follower. Because they're complete ideological opposites. (A great emphasis on personal liberty, free thought and the use of technology to improve quality of life.) And while Caesar likes Gannon, that's only because he wants to satisfy his ego of being a "cultured" Emperor. He is secretly worried that he's just basically stuck with a roving band of up-jumped raiders and is hoping that seizing Vegas to be his capital will give his empire a "Rome."
It's reasonable they have access to stockpiles of Pre-War weapons that they rounded up and can maintain them, but I don't believe they have a strong interest in science or technology as a particular aim. Not in the way the Brotherhood or House do. But there is no standardization to the armaments in the way that the NCR has some sort of AR-15 style "service rifle."
They also look upon askance if you're a weakling who needs meds for his heart. And even that seems to be impermissible for any Legionary with status. The player character is a profligate until proven otherwise. And Caesar only permits privileges to you as a kind of special case exception. He's only interested in filling boots for the moment, so it's in his interest to foster this sort of elitism and go for fit young men.
There's a reason Arcade Gannon hates them on principle as a Follower. Because they're complete ideological opposites. (A great emphasis on personal liberty, free thought and the use of technology to improve quality of life.) And while Caesar likes Gannon, that's only because he wants to satisfy his ego of being a "cultured" Emperor. He is secretly worried that he's just basically stuck with a roving band of up-jumped raiders and is hoping that seizing Vegas to be his capital will give his empire a "Rome."
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Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
Indeed; the Legion also have a habit of stripping away any chance for scientific or intellectual advancement, they conscript all healthy males into the Legion where they're turned into thoughtless killing machines and, they probably don't allow women to educate themselves which is quite troubling.
If an empire is built around an individual smart dude then that empire is going to shit the moment the dude dies.
If an empire is built around an individual smart dude then that empire is going to shit the moment the dude dies.
superdude34
Mad Grave Robber
Thank you for your response to my comments.
First of all, Arcade Gannon irritates me. Not everyone lives in a big nice followed camp with stimpaks, bandages and guns, with enough time to take a moral high ground. Anyway
Medial stuffs like stimpaks aren't banned in legion territory. Only amongst soldiers to encourage natural selection. A legionary can't have severe heart issues. Same in the normal army. They are just more polite about it in todays world. If you live in legion territory and need meds for your heart, you can have them.
Not all males are conscripted I think. Some are left at home to work. Women are forced to have kids, but the only reason we see so much slavery very is because we are in the war front. Dale Barton got away without conscription.
They don't need a standardised gun. That does not prove anything. If anything, they have better armaments than NCR who have a service rifle. An individual legionary is more than a match for an NCR trooper on average, a AR15 won't help. Also, I repeat myself once again, on average NCR troops have about 2 weeks training.
Legion train on the job.
I see your point about intelectuality, but said advancement isn't going to help when the jackals invade your territory, or your farm goes up. What the fuck will Mr House do for your farm, where will the protection be then? In friggin Vegas. Also, I digress, I would like to see half of the Vegas Strip up on a cross. That place needs a heavy dose of the nipton treatment.
You will do better in the wasteland, I assure you, with a large gun and survival skills, than with a scientific brain and morals.
PS: unless you are sciency enough to make a laser weapon.
First of all, Arcade Gannon irritates me. Not everyone lives in a big nice followed camp with stimpaks, bandages and guns, with enough time to take a moral high ground. Anyway
Medial stuffs like stimpaks aren't banned in legion territory. Only amongst soldiers to encourage natural selection. A legionary can't have severe heart issues. Same in the normal army. They are just more polite about it in todays world. If you live in legion territory and need meds for your heart, you can have them.
Not all males are conscripted I think. Some are left at home to work. Women are forced to have kids, but the only reason we see so much slavery very is because we are in the war front. Dale Barton got away without conscription.
They don't need a standardised gun. That does not prove anything. If anything, they have better armaments than NCR who have a service rifle. An individual legionary is more than a match for an NCR trooper on average, a AR15 won't help. Also, I repeat myself once again, on average NCR troops have about 2 weeks training.
Legion train on the job.
I see your point about intelectuality, but said advancement isn't going to help when the jackals invade your territory, or your farm goes up. What the fuck will Mr House do for your farm, where will the protection be then? In friggin Vegas. Also, I digress, I would like to see half of the Vegas Strip up on a cross. That place needs a heavy dose of the nipton treatment.
You will do better in the wasteland, I assure you, with a large gun and survival skills, than with a scientific brain and morals.
PS: unless you are sciency enough to make a laser weapon.
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Dr Fallout
Centurion
Huzzah! Thanks Superdude for your enlightened take on the Legion. Nice to see other people like that.
Also, the reason the Legion doesn't take even medicinal drugs is to ensure they're able to survive without them. The NCR and Followers foster an over reliance on drugs that are pre-war and are running out, something even Arcade Gannon doesn't disprove. Meanwhile the Legion are adapted perfectly to the scarcity of technology and to the wasteland, able to keep going even without stimpacks and docter's bags, the same things the NCR needs all the time for their forces. Maybe some would consider it stupid, I find it efficient. They don't rely on something even the followers admit is lessening but on stuff commonly found. An NCR soldier is hopeless in long survival combat missions, while a Legion soldier can thrive behind enemy lines. He can make all he needs from plants easy, and that's common knowledge.
Also, the reason the Legion doesn't take even medicinal drugs is to ensure they're able to survive without them. The NCR and Followers foster an over reliance on drugs that are pre-war and are running out, something even Arcade Gannon doesn't disprove. Meanwhile the Legion are adapted perfectly to the scarcity of technology and to the wasteland, able to keep going even without stimpacks and docter's bags, the same things the NCR needs all the time for their forces. Maybe some would consider it stupid, I find it efficient. They don't rely on something even the followers admit is lessening but on stuff commonly found. An NCR soldier is hopeless in long survival combat missions, while a Legion soldier can thrive behind enemy lines. He can make all he needs from plants easy, and that's common knowledge.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
So this makes me wonder, how exactly does Legion recruitment work? We know that they assimilate any tribals they conquer into the Legion military, but I doubt that makes up the entire Legion horde; do they conscript minor forces from their towns (like 1:10 males from Tuscon will be forced to join the military) or, do they produce the rest of their soldiers through the enslavement of the children of the enslaved? Either way this doesn't make the Legion sound like the idyllic governance.
Having reasons for being an asshole makes your being an asshole understandable, but it doesn't excuse it. If I were looking at the Legion from a purely humanitarian perspective, I don't really believe Caesar has really done the best job. Was the way that he did it make interesting fiction? Definitely. But in-universe, I'm irritated by his Social Darwinism and weird ideas about historical inevitability.
Actually, why the hell is he in the Mojave? Some sort of triumphalism? Because now that I think of it, that's pretty much what it looks like.
The Followers aren't privileged at all, being essentially a volunteer organization that gets kicked around because of their pacifism.
Source?
The Legion is a militaristic society and it's fair to assume Legionaries have the highest status of all.
And frankly modern militaries would disqualify you based on medical conditions, but that doesn't keep them from actually using modern medicine.
No, the point is that that this is the average attitude of the people who are going to inherit and rule Caesar's empire. It's not really an issue they think about critically, if at all.
And mind you, you're arguing they have big fancy guns, but they can't dust off an Autodoc somewhere and license specialized artisans to keep them up? Or hell, rig together some medical instruments? This isn't exactly hard in Fallout.
And actually, they have a demonstrated ability to trade well because of how people like doing business with them and an evidently good ability at skullduggering spycraft and subterfuge (as with the Silver Rush).
Given that it's a society modeled on the Roman Empire and the rhetoric that inferior peoples need to be slaves for their own good, I think it's fair to say that slaves are a given.
And true, but Dale Barton is not native to the area, or if he is, he still has to tolerate Lanius killing his pack Brahmin and not dare ask for compensation. (See above about his relative status.)
I can see them keeping chartered settlements or keeping serfs though. Somebody is minting those coins and growing food after all.
It proves how their forces are composed. Or at least evidences it. Yeah that's the point, standardization doesn't interest them because the arms themselves aren't considered an essential. They tell you straight up that Legionaries are expected to attack soldiers with knives if they have to. You control most of Nevada, I'm not surprised that you have guns, the ability to maintain them and a way of sources bullets. But the whole point is the armaments are not regular in of themselves, which is why they stress versatility.
And to be fair, the NCR gets most of its weapons from civilian experts, presumably, The Gun Runners.
Except that the NCR and Brotherhood and House are all capable of it. That's the problem. There's nothing that physically keeps NCR from tightening their perimeter and patrolling their roads better. And the OSI actively looks into stuff like the Vault 22 agricultural project. Hell, the Followers were once a part of the NCR. Which is silly on their part, since most of the NCR's strength comes from their ability to draw upon civilian enterprises and factions.
The Brotherhood can easily pursue stuff other than armor and weapons, except as Veronica reveals, they're too dogmatic to do so.
The Boomers are all about sustainability and killing stuff with artillery fire.
As stated above, it's apparent that Caesar wants to "settle" down, but can't given his current military needs. He's got this weird social engineering project that's very callously manipulative and uses humans as instrumental tools towards an end, rather than treating people as an end in themselves. So he doesn't really care about the long term consequences his culture will have so long as it achieves his grandiose goals.
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Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
Well, Caesar is my waifu.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
DVL, I can agree to almost everything but some of the last part? Utter fucking bullshit.
1. There are various sources that say how the NCR cannot protect their own roads due to inefficiency, too thinly spread (seriously, you hear that a LOT) and too many men dying from the Legion. They cannot protect the roads, even they admit that!
2. Ever notice how the NCR uses mercenaries a lot? BECAUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO USE THEIR MEN!!!! It's the explanation they give pretty much all the time, and you can't even see that? OSI, uses mercenaries only due to the lack of available NCR troops. Too much evidence showing that to support your views.
1. There are various sources that say how the NCR cannot protect their own roads due to inefficiency, too thinly spread (seriously, you hear that a LOT) and too many men dying from the Legion. They cannot protect the roads, even they admit that!
2. Ever notice how the NCR uses mercenaries a lot? BECAUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO USE THEIR MEN!!!! It's the explanation they give pretty much all the time, and you can't even see that? OSI, uses mercenaries only due to the lack of available NCR troops. Too much evidence showing that to support your views.
Yeah except people within the NCR and House mock General Oliver for his strategy. "General Wait-and-See" or as House calls it, "tunnel vision" strategy. He's also known for deliberately trying to screw over the Rangers, which are the elite forces of the NCR. Cassidy herself thinks the NCR would have fewer problems if they protected supply lines.
These things imply there are ways of doing it better.
And when you think about it . . . why is it that only Crocker really thought about getting the Boomers on their side? And mind you, Crocker is one of the few individuals who actually seem genuinely diplomatic and not prone to pushing NCR imperialism. He's actually one of the few politicians interested in a truce with the Brotherhood.
So what does that suggest? Well if you're going to hunker down, you need to either tighten your perimeter somewhere or get aggressive. Or, simply not be in the Mojave, not a great option since that defaults the region to the Legion, and Caesar has a boner for butting heads with NCR sooner-or-later, but at least allows them to take domestic affairs more seriously.
These things imply there are ways of doing it better.
And when you think about it . . . why is it that only Crocker really thought about getting the Boomers on their side? And mind you, Crocker is one of the few individuals who actually seem genuinely diplomatic and not prone to pushing NCR imperialism. He's actually one of the few politicians interested in a truce with the Brotherhood.
So what does that suggest? Well if you're going to hunker down, you need to either tighten your perimeter somewhere or get aggressive. Or, simply not be in the Mojave, not a great option since that defaults the region to the Legion, and Caesar has a boner for butting heads with NCR sooner-or-later, but at least allows them to take domestic affairs more seriously.
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Now that I think about it, what would be non-bullshit strategies for NCR against the Legion?
If you want to fight an entirely defensive war. You need to make the entire region more defensible and not drawn-out. So either you need to protect fewer things or get more forces.
Basically you have to lay into House diplomatically and get him to be a more active participant in the war on your behalf. This can be done, it just isn't acceptable to NCR hawks. House has to play ball with you if you threaten to take it home with you. So this means you really would have to negotiate favorable trade terms he can live with without wanting the entire pie to yourself. But of course, NCR wants more, which is why Crocker is the only ambassador to "accept the limits of his position."
Other minor regional powers are Boomers, the Brotherhood and the caravan companies. You can't have caravan companies undermining other traders in the area by literally killing off their competition. The benefits of a military pact with the other two are obvious.
The other alternative is a war of aggression against the Legion, because they cannot be ignored. Caesar is insistent on fighting the NCR. And you can't permit him to have a position of strength on your doorstep or a means of mounting an attack. Which suggests just a very total war approach to undermining him. Attack *his* supply lines and settlements. But I can't think of the necessary requirements you'd have to get in line to do this.
If you want to fight an entirely defensive war. You need to make the entire region more defensible and not drawn-out. So either you need to protect fewer things or get more forces.
Basically you have to lay into House diplomatically and get him to be a more active participant in the war on your behalf. This can be done, it just isn't acceptable to NCR hawks. House has to play ball with you if you threaten to take it home with you. So this means you really would have to negotiate favorable trade terms he can live with without wanting the entire pie to yourself. But of course, NCR wants more, which is why Crocker is the only ambassador to "accept the limits of his position."
Other minor regional powers are Boomers, the Brotherhood and the caravan companies. You can't have caravan companies undermining other traders in the area by literally killing off their competition. The benefits of a military pact with the other two are obvious.
The other alternative is a war of aggression against the Legion, because they cannot be ignored. Caesar is insistent on fighting the NCR. And you can't permit him to have a position of strength on your doorstep or a means of mounting an attack. Which suggests just a very total war approach to undermining him. Attack *his* supply lines and settlements. But I can't think of the necessary requirements you'd have to get in line to do this.