London Blasts!

[welsh]

Yes, but among the KKK's shitlist are Roman Catholics and Jews. Quite a few Roman Catholic churches have gone up in flames with predominantly Black protestant ones. A good look at the KKK's propaganda and they are clearly Christian.

I agree with Kharn in that this attack was well planned. The timing- between the G-8 and the Olympic announcement- was clever. It has trumped both. (I wonder if Paris would have been hit if it had gotten the games?)

That said, one thing that also stands out is the relatively unsophistication of the attack. The bombs were fairly small, set of in cramped and tight areas. From what I hear, if a subway car got hit, neither the car in front or behind was damaged. I have also heard that these were set with short timers. The bombers stepped into the cars, dropped of the bombs, and stepped out. The train went a short distance down the track and exploded.

What does this suggest? That terrorism is cheap and inexpensive. What it requires is people (and not a lot of people) who can keep a secret and are committed to a cause. The amount of explosives uses were small.

It also suggests that terrorist strikes are primarily targetted not at the people who are affected but the media, to get public attention. IN a sense, terrorists are drama whores who are willing to kill people to gather attention to themselves.

I also agree with Kharn, the brits have handled themselves remarkably well. They have known something like this was going to happen sooner or later and have experienced it in the past. They also seem to be moving on this in a more reasonable manner- as a crime of mass murder driven by a group of militant ideologues and not the one offensive strike from a foriegn culture.

What I wonder is who was this aimed at. IN the west, this should produce little but outrage and might even rally people and reaffirm commitment against terrorism.

But in predominantly muslim societies, the consequence might be different- to rally the cause for terrorist movements- a drive for increased recruitment and financial support, and perhaps even to suggest that the vulnerabilities of the west is not in car bombing Americans in Iraq, but in killing civilians in western countries.


From the economist-

The hunt for the London bombers begins

Jul 8th 2005
From The Economist Global Agenda

More than 50 are now known to have been killed in explosions on London's Underground system and on board a bus, apparently timed to coincide with Britain's hosting of the Group of Eight summit. A huge hunt for the bombers is now under way

AFP

THERE have been plenty of warnings that London might be the target of a big terror attack—and indeed, from the second world war Blitz to the IRA bombing campaign of the 1970s-1990s, Londoners have long been used to living with the risk of attack. But no amount of preparedness could reduce the shock of the chain of bomb explosions that hit the British capital’s transport system during the morning rush on Thursday July 7th.

By Friday morning, police were able to confirm that there had been more than 50 fatalities in the bombings, with around 700 people injured. There were four explosions: one in a tunnel near Liverpool Street Underground station; one in a tunnel between Russell Square and King's Cross stations; one in a train at Edgware Road station; and the fourth on a bus near Russell Square. Eye witnesses told of scenes of carnage and panic in the Underground tunnels. Adding to the confusion, controlled explosions were carried out on suspect packages found elsewhere on the city's public-transport system, though these proved to be false alarms.

Police said on Friday that there was “absolutely nothing” to suggest that the attacks had been suicide-bombings—though they could not entirely rule this out. Thus a massive hunt is now under way for the bombers, as well as those who may have helped them prepare the attacks. Police urged those with potentially useful information to call them on a special telephone line (0800 789 321).

I heard that the bombs used timers and were not like the cell-phone triggered bombs used in Spain.

The assumption so far is that the attackers were Islamists, possibly with links to al-Qaeda. On Thursday evening, Jack Straw, Britain's foreign secretary, said that the bombings had “the hallmarks of an al-Qaeda-related attack”. And the government says it is taking seriously a statement posted on the internet, purportedly from a group linked to al-Qaeda. The statement claimed that “mujahideen” (holy warriors) had carried out the attacks in retaliation for Britain's military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan—though such statements have sometimes proved unreliable in the past.

That said, this doesn't mean that there isn't an IRA connection, or some connection to Irish nationalists. I doubt it's the IRA due to the ceasefire, but it could be a more militant branch. The IRA did have links with the middle east.

A serious worry now is that the bombers may quickly strike again, as happened after recent attacks in other European cities attributed to Islamists. Just three weeks after the Madrid train bombings of March 2004, which killed 191 people, a bomb was found on a railway line south of the Spanish capital. And five days after the killing of 25 people in the suicide-bombings of two synagogues in Istanbul, in November 2003, there were further attacks on a British bank and the British consulate in the city, killing a further 32. Another fear is that, if cornered, the bombers may blow themselves up, taking as many people with them as possible, as the seven suspected Madrid bombers did when surrounded by police some days after the attacks.

FOr those interested in history, this is chillingly reminescent of the bomber in Conrad's Secret Agent.

Despite such fears, many Londoners plucked up the courage to travel in to work in the centre of the capital on Friday morning. Underground and bus services were returning to normal, with the exception of those train lines hit by the bombs. Queen Elizabeth and other members of the royal family visited those casualties still being treated in hospital.

The explosions came as Tony Blair, the British prime minister, was hosting the summit of Group of Eight leaders at Gleneagles in Scotland—and the day after London was chosen to host the 2012 Olympic games. Mr Blair and the other G8 leaders, plus the heads of government from the world's leading developing nations, stepped out of their meetings at Gleneagles to affirm, as Mr Blair put it, “our complete resolution to defeat this terrorism”. Security was stepped up on public-transport systems in Washington, DC and other G8 capitals as news of the London attacks reached them.

I am actually rather pleased with how Blair had handled this.

It may be some time before it becomes clear—if it ever does—who was responsible for the attacks. Police say no warning was given of the bombs and it appears that there was no advance intelligence that attacks were being planned. Though the leadership structure of al-Qaeda has been disrupted since the American-led invasion of Afghanistan, in the wake of the September 11th 2001 attacks, the terror group clearly still has cells of sympathisers with the capability to procure bomb-making materials and recruit attackers.

And considering how easy it is to run such an attack, I wonder if the organization of Al Qaeda is as centralized as some might think. If one could have done this in London, why not New York, LA, or any one of many cities?

The attacks will have required a fair amount of planning—possibly including practice runs—and the bombers may well have received logistical back-up from other people. The security services will now be searching desperately for some clue, however small, that will provide a trail leading back to the terrorists and their support network. In the case of the Madrid bombs, a mobile phone used in one of the bombs, which failed to explode, was traced back to the shop where it was bought and hence to the gang of bombers.

Attacks already foiled
Should Britain be doing more to prevent such attacks? Earlier this year, Mr Blair’s government struggled to push through Parliament a terrorism law containing strong powers for the state to impose “control orders” restraining the liberties of terror suspects, even in the absence of sufficient evidence to bring charges. This followed a ruling by the Law Lords, Britain’s most senior court, striking down a measure in an earlier terrorism bill that had allowed the government to detain suspects indefinitely. A senior security source who briefed The Economist last year gave details of several attempted terrorist attacks on the capital that he said had already been foiled.

While Britain’s security services have strong anti-terror powers and London has among the world’s best contingency plans for coping with such serious incidents, its transport system, like any other big city’s, is highly vulnerable. It is almost impossible to prevent determined bombers bringing explosive devices on to trains and buses, and no amount of planning or security measures will eliminate such a risk entirely. Londoners understand this and they—and the security services—have known that it was only a matter of time before something terrible happened.

Terrorism's goal is in upsetting the way of life of its intended target- the viewing public. It is about character- the willingness of terrorists to go to extremes and the willingness of the targets to give in to fear.

 

[welsh]

More news-

What a mess. The bombs were supposedly more powerful than believed and the police still cannot give a satisfactory estimate of the dead.

Question of the sophistication of the explosives raises questions of the source and how they got into London.

Is there an IRA connection- perhaps through transfer of IRA explosive stock to Al Qaeda?

London Police Revise Timeline for Blasts By PAISLEY DODDS, Associated Press Writer
4 minutes ago



Police radically revised the timing of the deadly blasts that tore through the London Underground, saying Saturday that the bombs were detonated just seconds apart — not 26 minutes as first reported. The explosions were so intense that none of the 49 known dead has yet been identified.

Many bodies still lay buried in a rat-infested subway tunnel and frantic relatives begged for word about others still missing in the worst attack on London since World War II. Police indicated as many as 50 additional victims were unaccounted for.

In a sign of the continued state of alert, police evacuated 20,000 people from Birmingham's central entertainment district Saturday night after intelligence indicating a "substantial threat," said Stuart Hyde, assistant chief constable of West Midlands Police.

He said the alert was not likely connected to the subway and bus bombings. A controlled explosion to disarm a suspicious object was carried out on a Birmingham bus, and officers concluded there was no explosive device.

Deputy Assistant Police Commissioner Brian Paddick said the near-simultaneous nature of the attacks Thursday indicated timers — not suicide bombers — set off the explosions. He cautioned, however, that the investigation was in an early stage and nothing had been ruled out.

Investigators also said the bombs that brought the British capital to a standstill were made of sophisticated high explosives. Investigators said it was too early to pinpoint where the terrorist bombers got the ingredients.

Investigators repeated their assertion that the bombings bore the signature of al-Qaida, the terror network blamed for the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States. The organization, headed by Osama bin Laden, has gained a reputation for sophisticated timing in its terror strikes.

"It will be some time before this job is completed and it will be done with all the necessary dignity to the deceased," said Andy Trotter of the British Transport Police.

Mustafa Setmarian Nasar, the alleged mastermind of last year's Madrid railway bombings, who also goes by the name Abu Musab al-Suri, has emerged as a suspect in the London attacks, according to unidentified investigators cited in The Sunday Times, The Sunday Telegraph and the Mail on Sunday.

Nasar, a Syrian fugitive, allegedly played a key role in setting up an al-Qaida structure in Spain and was indicted there in connection with the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States. Last year, the U.S. offered $5 million for information leading to his arrest.

Transit officials originally said Thursday's blasts occurred over a 26-minute span, but computer software that tracked train locations and electric circuits subsequently determined the first blast shattered the rush-hour commute at 8:50 a.m in Aldgate station, east London, with the next two erupting within 50 seconds.

A fourth explosion tore through a double-decker bus near a subway entrance, killing 13 people, nearly an hour later. The attacks hit as President Bush and other G-8 leaders were holding a summit in Scotland and a day after London was named the host city for the 2012 Olympics.

Scotland Yard has declined to issue a list of people unaccounted for. Police said Saturday they were looking into more than 1,000 missing-person reports, although they do not believe more than 50 of them are connected to the bombings, suggesting the death toll will remain below 100.

More than 20 people injured in the blasts remained in critical condition, and an unknown number of bodies remained in the Russell Square subway tunnel, where heat, dust and dangerous conditions slowed crews trying to reach the corpses. Many London subway lines run more than 100 feet below ground.

"It is a very harrowing task," said police detective Jim Dickie. "Most of the victims have suffered intensive trauma, and by that I mean there are body parts as well as torsos." Many of those who worked to recover bodies had done the same work during December's devastating tsunami in the Indian Ocean.

Forensics experts were relying on fingerprints, dental records and DNA analysis to identify the victims.

Riders were returning to Underground stations, but warily and in smaller numbers.

"There's just less people," student William Palmer, 23, said at the Chancery Lane subway stop. "Everyone's looking around a little bit more."

The system was set for its first real test on Sunday when 20,000 cricket fans were expected to travel to the British capital for a match between England and Australia.

When asked about the claim of responsibility by a group calling itself The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe, Prime Minister Tony Blair told the BBC on Saturday it was "reasonably obvious that it comes from that type of quarter."

Little was known about the group, but its name was attached to an Internet statement that claimed responsibility for the Madrid commuter train bombings that killed 191 people in March 2004, the last major terror attack in Europe.

A second claim appeared on a Web site Saturday, this one signed Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades, a group whose name invokes the alias of Mohammed Atef, bin Laden's top deputy who was killed in a U.S. airstrike in Afghanistan in November 2001.

But terrorism experts said the group had no proven record of attacks, and noted it had claimed responsibility for events in which it was unlikely to have played any role — the 2003 blackouts in the United States and London that resulted from technical problems, for example.

A government-prepared dossier, drawn up by the British Home Office and Foreign Office after the March 2004 train bombings in Madrid, Spain, said al-Qaida is targeting middle-class Britons to join its ranks, The Sunday Times reported.

"Extremists are known to target schools and colleges where young people may be very inquisitive but less challenging and more susceptible to extremist reason/arguments," the report says, according to the Sunday newspaper.

At King's Cross station, near the site of the deadliest of the three subway bombings, service was partially restored on Saturday. Flowers and sympathy cards were piling up outside to honor the 21 known dead as the train was bombed between King's Cross and Russell Square stations.

A group of Muslims held a peaceful vigil outside St. Mary's Hospital on Saturday in solidarity with victims.

"We must remember that terror is all around us these days, that terror has no homeland or nationality and no religion and that we all face the same problems together," said Iman Hassan Ali, from the Dar Al Islam Foundation.

"We all want to understand these incidents and today we are here to give our support to the victims and say that we will stand together despite terrorism."

 

[Ratty Sr.]

<derailment new_topic="World of Warcraft>
I can polymorph my enemies into sheep in World of Warcraft. It's a very useful means of crowd control. Of course, the little bastards simultaneously inherit sheep stupidity and start wandering around aimlessly until they alert every damn enemy in the area of my presence.
</derailment>

 

[Wooz]

What does this suggest? That terrorism is cheap and inexpensive. What it requires is people (and not a lot of people) who can keep a secret and are committed to a cause. The amount of explosives uses were small.

Ye-up. I found myself wandering, what would happen if Warsaw's graffiti writers planted bombs on trains instead of spraypainting them. Been myself a few times in train yards, and even managed to spraypaint a local power plant, which is supposedly teh ubar guarded.

And considering how easy it is to run such an attack, I wonder if the organization of Al Qaeda is as centralized as some might think. If one could have done this in London, why not New York, LA, or any one of many cities?

Centralized?

Every Al-Quaeda cell is autonomous, it doesn't need any of the others to plan attacks. It's *not* organized as an enterprise, where CEO Benny gives out orders to different branch chiefs, which give out orders to others and so on. Think of it, if they'd catch anyone, it'd be the end of the organization. Furthermore, Osama is little more than a spiritual leader to al-quaeda terrorists. A centralized terrorist organisation would be extremely easy to dismantle.

 

[Silencer]

We're all Londoners in these sad days.

Except Fas Ist. He's a Slav.

 

[Wooz]

He was supposed to do some treasure-digging in Serbia. I hope he hit an anti-tank mine with a shovel.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

He was supposed to do some treasure-digging in Serbia. I hope he hit an anti-tank mine with a shovel.

Anti-tank mines is Serbia? Unlikely. If you want to step on mines, you come to Croatia. That's not just our new tourist slogan, it's the truth.

 

[Wooz]

Maybe he went to Kosovo? It's not exactly Serbia, but close enough.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Maybe he went to Kosovo? It's not exactly Serbia, but close enough.

Quite possible. I can't wait until he comes back with his latest findings. "first Europeans were Kosovars! tehy conquered everything from china to english chanel even alexander teh great and hammurabi were Kosovars and yuo are ignorant for not believing that!"

 

[Wooz]

 

[Sander]

Quite possible. I can't wait until he comes back with his latest findings. "first Europeans were Kosovars! tehy conquered everything from china to english chanel even alexander teh great and hammurabi were Kosovars and yuo are ignorant for not believing that!"

Your forgot all of the :!: :!: :!: : :arrow: :arrow: :idea: :idea: :idea:

 

[John Uskglass]

...

The Socialist International (SI) is an international organisation for social democratic and democratic socialist parties

You can read, right? I've always assumed you could read, but I'm beginning to doubt it now

Dude. It says Socialist International. Does'nt that mean they are Socialist parties?

 

[Brother None]

Dude. It says Socialist International. Does'nt that mean they are Socialist parties?

You mean members of the KKK are Ku-kus?

It's a name, they're social democrats. Shit, the Dutch Labour is a member of it, and they're moderate lefties, with two more left-wing parties sitting next to them, who're too extreme for the Socialist International.

 

[Maphusio]

I'm surprised all this did not happen on the 15th to coincide with the crusade anniversary... Then again time will tell I suppose.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

Dude. It says Socialist International. Does'nt that mean they are Socialist parties?

The name is very inaccurate and was probably retained for tradition's sake. I doubt there is a single truly socialist party in SI.

 

[Max Demian]

IMNSHO these post-blast ruminations triggered by an over-exaggerated (if not invented) world-wide terrorist threat are a bunch of bull-sh’t. C’mon, ain’t it over abundantly clear that it’s not the terrorists who terrorize, but the shameless politician propaganda speeches and gluttonous media hype. They’re the ones directing the way these things get interpreted, they’re the ones shaping our reality – controlling our perception, if you’d like. There are no truths, only interpretations of things. Think about it. How long did it take T.Blair to declare the London blasts an act of international terrorism? Could he have possibly had the time to evaluate all the evidence (which at the time wasn’t even available) and justly infer who the perpetrators were? Of course not. Yet, he seems to have no scruples when it comes to launching unsubstantiated condemnations. Why? Because it suits his political goals. Because it sort of “justifies” (obscures would be better) what UK and the US are doing in the Middle East – making the world a better place to live. Yeah right! Could it be that they just use the term terrorism to demonize a perceived enemy in order to promote moral repulsion and outrage? Again, pay attention to the word „perceived“. Could it be that they're channeling the public opinion in the direction that suits their voracious desires best? You think that’s not possible? What makes you think things have changed at all since the time of Caesars. Do you honestly believe people have somehow become better, less tainted and more benevolent? That the leaders of the “declaratively democratic” countries put the needs of the demos before their personal? Boy, one must be real addle-minded to do so. Still deem me wrong? Why, come to Croatia then. Here you have the perfect opportunity to see a very primitive form of democrative government still struggling to master the arts of clandestine control of public opinion. Democracy is no more than an utopian pun, believe me. Will to power, that’s all there is to it. Rules of combat may have changed, but the motives behind them haven’t. Who can disclaim the possibility that the governments are vicariously conspiring with the so called “terrorist groups”? Just consider September the 11th attacks. Who profited out of them the most? The terrorists? Hell no! The American people? Not by a long shot. Who then? Why, the mobos on the top of course. The corporate plutocracy. They’re the ones directing things, playwriting their own shows. Money, it’s all about money. And all that you see on TV, read in the newspapers and hear in the streets – all that ain’t nothing more than an illusion someone’s trying to serve you for breakfast. Do you really want to have people telling you all your lifetime what the world around you looks like? Would you rather be blind, than gaze the world with your eyes open wide? Think about it. I know I have.

 

[Maphusio]

IMNSHO these post-blast ruminations triggered by an over-exaggerated (if not invented) world-wide terrorist threat are a bunch of bull-sh’t. C’mon, ain’t it over abundantly clear that it’s not the terrorists who terrorize, but the shameless politician propaganda speeches and gluttonous media hype. They’re the ones directing the way these things get interpreted, they’re the ones shaping our reality – controlling our perception, if you’d like. There are no truths, only interpretations of things. Think about it. How long did it take T.Blair to declare the London blasts an act of international terrorism? Could he have possibly had the time to evaluate all the evidence (which at the time wasn’t even available) and justly infer who the perpetrators were? Of course not. Yet, he seems to have no scruples when it comes to launching unsubstantiated condemnations. Why? Because it suits his political goals. Because it sort of “justifies” (obscures would be better) what UK and the US are doing in the Middle East – making the world a better place to live. Yeah right! Could it be that they just use the term terrorism to demonize a perceived enemy in order to promote moral repulsion and outrage? Again, pay attention to the word „perceived“. Could it be that they're channeling the public opinion in the direction that suits their voracious desires best? You think that’s not possible? What makes you think things have changed at all since the time of Caesars. Do you honestly believe people have somehow become better, less tainted and more benevolent? That the leaders of the “declaratively democratic” countries put the needs of the demos before their personal? Boy, one must be real addle-minded to do so. Still deem me wrong? Why, come to Croatia then. Here you have the perfect opportunity to see a very primitive form of democrative government still struggling to master the arts of clandestine control of public opinion. Democracy is no more than an utopian pun, believe me. Will to power, that’s all there is to it. Rules of combat may have changed, but the motives behind them haven’t. Who can disclaim the possibility that the governments are vicariously conspiring with the so called “terrorist groups”? Just consider September the 11th attacks. Who profited out of them the most? The terrorists? Hell no! The American people? Not by a long shot. Who then? Why, the mobos on the top of course. The corporate plutocracy. They’re the ones directing things, playwriting their own shows. Money, it’s all about money. And all that you see on TV, read in the newspapers and hear in the streets – all that ain’t nothing more than an illusion someone’s trying to serve you for breakfast. Do you really want to have people telling you all your lifetime what the world around you looks like? Would you rather be blind, than gaze the world with your eyes open wide? Think about it. I know I have.

My hero.
IMNSHO any government or organization may start out with the most honest and benign intentions; but, in the end human greed, the struggle for power will corrupt it to it's very end. Like cancer, it will eventually consume and strangle every last inkling of life in the body it resides.. Do not trust in the masses for people are ignorant, greedy and full of fear. Bottem line is Max Demian really hit the nail on the head.

 

[John Uskglass]

Dude. It says Socialist International. Does'nt that mean they are Socialist parties?

The name is very inaccurate and was probably retained for tradition's sake. I doubt there is a single truly socialist party in SI.

Dashnak in Armenia, they actually kicked out the Lebanese branch for being too capitalistic.

Damn. That's really confusing. Their flags are red too. I mean, they just LOOK like Socialists, and they CALL themselves socialists, but they don't really consider themselves Socialists?

 

[Wooz]

Bull,.

They look like Communist Nazi Islamist Terrorist Jews, not Socialists.

 

[Brother None]

They look like Communist Nazi Islamist Terrorist Jews, not Socialists.

They look like Black Communist Nazi Islamist Terrorist Jews to me.

John; fer Chrissakes, "socialist" is a word commonly used in a lot of countries to indicate social democrats. I'm quite surprised there are any hardcore socialists in there.