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Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by CT Phipps, Dec 13, 2018.
You don't need the Enclave, Super Mutants or Brotherhood to make a Fallout game. You could cut them out from New Vegas and it wouldn't affect the main story.
But the new Generation!
Really poor argument. The Enclave, The Brotherhood and the Super-Mutants aren't the grand total of the Fallout setting or lore by literally any measure. Everything pre-war would still remain. The specific history of Fallout's retrofuture Cold War, the cultural context and the 50's retrofuture dystopianism, pre-war staples like the Vaults, West-Tek, Power Armor, RobCo, robots, Energy Weapons et cetera would still sensically appear.
The visual design of the Fallout world is also unique as a characterization. The 50's dark dystopian retrofutuirsm blended with art-deco sensibilities, in the post-war the deliberately pulp-y Mad Max style approach to the apocalypse with football armor and an entire plethora of mutants that would fit better on the page of a comic book than in 90% of contemporary post-apoc fiction. Gameplay is of course a staple also: SPECIAL, Traits, Perks, Skills.
I literally don't even understand why you'd make this argument, it's borderline silly. As someone else pointed out, you can cut out the Brotherhood, the Enclave and the Super Mutants from New Vegas and truthfully very little changes.
But then again, all three of the existing Fallout spin-offs (Tactics, Brotherhood of Steel, and Nu-Fallout) largely signaled that they were indeed Fallout games by making their stories center around the conflict between the Brotherhood of Steel and Super Mutants in new places. At a minimu, this is what a very large number perceive fallout as being about, even if I agree with you that what makes it good is more subtle and underlying
I don't even think it's that subtle. The 50's retrofuturistic dystopian stuff is really overt and stuff like the Vaults, Vault Boy and Pip-Boys don't have to appear but they probably should. It's just the specific BoS/Mutie/Enclave thing that is boggling.
Be careful, people might think it was a 1st person, post apocalyptic "Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader" game.
It's a pity Lionheart was only good in the first part. Once you leave Barcelona it becomes a charmless, weak and bad Diablo wannabe.
Yeah, that was because Interplay was already sinking and just wanted to release quickly Fallout spin-offs to try and get quick money. After all, it had already lost the DnD rights, which was their best seller series by then.
So they didn't have time to come up with new good factions, villains, plots, etc.
Would you reccomend tho?
I recommend it to people who never played it. Specially if they can get it cheap (although on GOG.com it should be $15 or less, IIRC).
It uses SPECIAL, has Traits, Perks, Skills, different character Races to pick from. It also has 4 factions and you can join 1 of them (they are typical fighters, typical mages, typical dark mages and typical divine magic/fighter faction). But combat is real time.
I like the alternative world, and all the famous people you can meet.
The Barcelona part (and it's surroundings) is pretty nice (as I mentioned before), but after that the game becomes only combat and more combat.
I also like the game's OST.
I would have preferred turn combat, and also that the whole game would be as good as Barcelona. This means that half of the game or maybe even more than half is just boring.
It's a pity, it's like the game was going to be a great action RPG and halfway through someone decided that there was too much dialogue and side quests, and just decided they would try to imitate Diablo (and failed at that too).
It's because of this completely terrible mentality that Bethesda keeps recycling the same crap over and over, coming up with more terrible reasons for these factions to keep popping up in every Fallout game.
Why come up with new things to bring some much needed breath of fresh air when you can be creatively bankrupt?
If anything, the Capital Wasteland was the perfect chance to make new factions. Instead Bethesda came up with horrible, lore-breaking reasons for BoS, Enclave, and Super Mutants to be in the Capital Wasteland. Specially because how rooted all these are in the West Coast.
The main issue with a Fallout game having to have Super Mutants, Enclave and BOS is that it makes the world seem way to small and everything is connected to absurd degrees. It's like having a Marvel movie where the bad guy HAS to be a HYDRA agent or be related to HYDRA otherwise it's not a Marvel film or something.
Isn't the vaults and strange sci-fi creatures showing up enough for a Fallout game to be a Fallout game?
Makes the world smaller and way more restrictive.
New Vegas had BoS, Super Mutants, the Enclave (kind of), NCR, and other factions that were in the first two games. But it made sense here because the game is on the West Coast where all these things come from. And even then, they did new stuff with the NCR, BoS, Super Mutants, and the Enclave. It didn't just recycled what they did in previous games. And it also introduced new factions like the Legion.
Another issue with Bethesda reusing these factions and characters is that they just repeat what they did before, but way more stupid.
Fallout 5: Bos x NCR.......in NY.
The thing is if you're not going to use the original material then you probably should do your own IP.
So far no one has given a single good reason why they should have the Fallout IP for original material.
Except, if you cut NCR then you would be affecting it. The three examples I cite are the examples of Fallout 1 and 2 material in Fallout 3. Without them, there's no need for it to be a Fallout game.
Which everyone in this thread understands. Without them what ties the setting to Fallout specifically versus, say, Wasteland or a original IP.
Fallout doesn't have ownership of bomb shelters or 50s scifi. Honestly, the original Fallout wasn't nearly aa 50s scifi focused as the Bethesda games.
Because in the Original games the world that was the 50's vision of the future was Blown TO SHIT and you at best get to see the remains of its charred corpse and phantom shadow burnt into the rubble. Bethesda on the other hand are obsessed with the Old World for whatever reason. probably because they are hacks.
Did you just not read all the other comments or did you just read mine mocking the point?
But they do have ownership over Vault-Tec and the specific visuals of the Vaults and all the brand specific Pre-War robots like Mr. Handys and whatnot. And Power Armor which isn't exclusive to the Brotherhood or Enclave. It just so happens that non-BoS owned armor was rare because a bunch of technophiles went around taking it from everyone. It could be more diversely used in the East. Ghouls weren't a Necropolis only thing according to Fallout 2 and Van Buren. Those would be there.
You really think Fallout as an IP only has a handful of factions to show for it and the rest is common use?
Maybe one faction made it to the East but when it's the BoS and the Enclave both? C'mon man. They could have at least had an original villain.
It ties to the West Coast, a specific part of the setting, not the whole damn thing. Fallout 3 had no business having West Coast things.
If they wanted to recycle stuff from the originals, how about, i don't know, make a fucking game in the West Coast? The second you make a game in a part of the setting that hasn't been talked about before, but you just reuse stuff from the other parts of the setting, you look like a lazy hackjob.
It makes sense for the NCR to be in New Vegas. It doesn't make sense for the Enclave and the Brotherhood to be in 3. Also what would happen to the story of Fallout 2 if the NCR had nothing to do with Shady Sands?
If we can't judge games based on their own merits instead of our expectations, then it's time for us to stop progressing as a society. Actual brain cancer
Why can't we just slap the name Fallout on every game ever and just judge it based on its merits! Who cares that you called Fortnite "Falloutnite"? Or that it's "Call of Fallout" or "Gears of Fallout"? That's not the point! Quit judging it based on the repertoire and expectations the series has led us to. Instead judge it based on its own merits or you have actual brain cancer.