Mass Effect 2

[aenemic]

The story....I can't really say much about it since I haven't played the game for long, but I dislike this whole "Oh my God Ned, their coming right for us!" type of story, where you need to gather army\team and fight off the uber menace that is nowhere near grey morality. I doubt that you'll be able to convince the Reapers to just go away or stop killing all organics OR join them. Just go there, kill them at all cost and in the end, all will be forgiven since you had to sacrifice everything in order to stop them and no one will hold it against you.

it's a game about how you're the one person who is capable of stopping the destruction of the universe. there's no reason for there to be an option to join the reapers, as that'd be an entirely different game. the grey area in this story is how you go about stopping them, which honestly could be a lot more complex and affect the outcome of the game. but still, you do make choices that make a difference, and from what I understand ME3 will be even bigger on building on your earlier choices.

you can't ALWAYS expect every single option to be available to you in a game. it's never been done before, so why go around expecting it from games where it doesn't even make sense?

 

[Surf Solar]

Maybe it's possbile in the future. They already announced that there will be more games in the ME universe after ME3.

 

[Professor Danger!]

After playing Dragon Age I have little patience for such nonsense, one epic game of this sort is enough.

ME2 is an action game. Not an RPG.

I don't know any action shooters that have all the stuff you're looking for.

 

[Ravager69]

ME2 is an action game. Not an RPG.

I don't know any action shooters that have all the stuff you're looking for.

I meant that Bioware spilt out two epic seemingly-alike games in a very short time and after playing one of them, I don't really feel like playing the other. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but that's what I meant.

In terms of gameplay and setting, DA and ME2 are far from each other, but the story *is* pretty similar. You, the player. are given a task to stop an invasion of murderous army that's only way to spend free time is by murdering everyone else for some lame reason. The only grey area in-game is that how you do it, but all in all, you are a hero in the end (if you survive). I agree that both games are at least a little innovative, but if you played one, the other has little to offer. It's all about if you prefer sci-fi or fantasy setting, to be honest.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

ME2 is an action game. Not an RPG.

I don't know any action shooters that have all the stuff you're looking for.

I meant that Bioware spilt out two epic seemingly-alike games in a very short time and after playing one of them, I don't really feel like playing the other. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but that's what I meant.

In terms of gameplay and setting, DA and ME2 are far from each other, but the story *is* pretty similar. You, the player. are given a task to stop an invasion of murderous army that's only way to spend free time is by murdering everyone else for some lame reason. The only grey area in-game is that how you do it, but all in all, you are a hero in the end (if you survive). I agree that both games are at least a little innovative, but if you played one, the other has little to offer. It's all about if you prefer sci-fi or fantasy setting, to be honest.

That's a terribly weak argument. What you're saying is "The gameplay and setting are NOTHING alike whatsoever. Yet since the stories share a similar overarching theme, they're exactly the same game and once you've played one, you've played the other."

I guess you've never played the first ME; because the story is a direct continuation of that (which is a good thing)... not a copy-paste of DAO with lasers.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

If anything, I can understand the feeling. Since every Bioware game is more or less a copy-paste of the previous one in terms of story progression and player-to-world interaction, I wouldn't ever want to play two BW games back-to-back.

 

[Ravager69]

That's a terribly weak argument. What you're saying is "The gameplay and setting are NOTHING alike whatsoever. Yet since the stories share a similar overarching theme, they're exactly the same game and once you've played one, you've played the other."

Oh is that so? Change the Blight to the Reapers, guns and biotics to swords and magic and you have more or less the same story, except that instead gathering units to your army, you collect single people to your team. It ain't exact copy, but don't tell me they're nothing near each other. The only things ME2 has that DAO doesn't are stupid fucking minigames (God I hate those so much) like scanning planets and picking locks. Oh, and you can buy upgrades and in DAO you don't have a bad-ass spaceship with a crew that worships you, but that's about it. You can't say these games are not similiar in any way.

I guess you've never played the first ME; because the story is a direct continuation of that (which is a good thing)... not a copy-paste of DAO with lasers.

Did I say it's a copy paste of DAO story? You're inferring too much. I said that both games feel too much alike to me, aside from how combat is handled and you're in space, not in a Tolkien-like fantasy world. Is it such a horrible argument? I don't know, but I don't think so.

BTW I am more or less familiar with ME world except for minor details, so I know why things are the way they are in ME2. It's just that it feels very uninteresting and unimaginative. DAO already drew my reserves of patience for cliched-to-hell epic games about saving the world, gathering party members and gaining their trust. You'd think that Bioware could come up with something better than a beefed up, non-Star Wars KotOR.

 

[Sander]

That's a terribly weak argument. What you're saying is "The gameplay and setting are NOTHING alike whatsoever. Yet since the stories share a similar overarching theme, they're exactly the same game and once you've played one, you've played the other."

I guess you've never played the first ME; because the story is a direct continuation of that (which is a good thing)... not a copy-paste of DAO with lasers.

It's not a copy-paste of the Dragon Age story, it's a copy-paste of every single Bioware story since Baldur's Gate, with the exception of BG2 and Jade Empire.
Here's how all of their games work:
You encounter a small threat and spend most of the game recruiting help and uncovering the threat. This always turns out to be some ancient, long-forgotten race/group/power re-surfacing, which no one in power initially believes leaving you to do all the work. Then, you destroy it in the end-game.

All of them.

Also, Mass Effect 2 really isn't a continuation of the Mass Effect storyline. It's more of a re-hash, they just replaced the Geth by Collectors. That's probably what's most disappointing about Mass Effect 2: instead of continuing the original game and evolving the storyline and the stage, they just hit the reset button and make you do it all over again. You already had a crew and a ship and support from a government after Mass Effect, why the hell did they feel the need to make the game about getting those things again?

 

[nemo00]

Regarding the Mass Effect 2 is not an RPG topic, well I just have to add that Mass Effect is twice the RPG that Fallout 3 ever was. People complain that there are just a few skills, well in my opinion that is bullshit, there may be less skills, but I had to use each and every one of them through the whole game. Heck If i remember correctly the number of skills per class in Baldurs Gate wasn't that high either. The same thing can be said about the weapons, there may be a few but you really have to use them all.

The combat itself, for which a lot of people criticize it and consider it an action game, if you think a little doesn't differ too much from Diablo, but from a different perspective. The upgrade system itself is interesting, but personally I don't mind it.

The story may not be that original but let's be honest which game made in the last two decades had an original story (Planscape, and maybe Septerra Core, both being great games are the only one that come in mind, but then you have to look at the sales, and companies do have to make some profit,). Sometimes the way a story is told and the feeling you get from it is more important than the general story , and at that Mass Effect excels. All the time you have the feeling that you are up against something terrifying, and to succeed recruiting the right team is very important (your orriginal team being too week compare Liara's character with that of Sammara, and In think I made my point).
There were also two first for me in this game, one being that the minigames were actually fun, and seccond which was a great surprise , is that Mass Effect 2 was the first game ever for me that ran much more better, and looked better that the original, on the same rig.
Of course the game has a few flaws like the end boss battle which was idiotic. Then there is this new trend with DLC which i really hate, but that is what I would call the Ea Effect

 

[Ausdoerrt]

^ You seem to equate "RPG" with "good" for some unfathomable reason. I know a plenty of great non-RPG games and even more crappy RPG games.

IMSCO, Diablo isn't an RPG game. It's an MMO-prototype.

Just because there's more crappy stories than there's good ones, does it mean that we should not criticize the bad ones? The "feeling" you describe may be there the first time you play a BW game, but it gets reeeeally old on 2nd, 3rd etc time.

Also, "they need to make money" is the lousiest justification I've heard.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

It's not a copy-paste of the Dragon Age story, it's a copy-paste of every single Bioware story since Baldur's Gate, with the exception of BG2 and Jade Empire.

BG2 and Jade Empire aren't that far off from the forumla, if you take having someone close to being kidnapped as the small threat.

You encounter a small threat and spend most of the game recruiting help and uncovering the threat. This always turns out to be some ancient, long-forgotten race/group/power re-surfacing, which no one in power initially believes leaving you to do all the work. Then, you destroy it in the end-game.

You forgot one other element, with the exception of NWN and perhaps Dragon Age (haven't played it) your character is destined to defeat the large threat due to who they are.

 

[nemo00]

That is bull

If I remember correctly the first Diablo was considered the RPG that saved the genre back in 96, when RPG's were considered dead.

I can say that I played almost every bioware game, except jade empire, wasn't interested in the setting, (in a matter of fact i kinda played most of the main RPG's of the last 20 years, except the Ultima series) and found them very good. Mass effect's story isn't bad at all, It's not worse than fallout's (1 &2), In both cases the way the story is told or the options you have make it worth playing.

Iff you would run a busines, you should know that you have to reach a balance between quality and quantity, to pay your bills. Planescape,(this is not an art pour'l art world) was one of the most intriguing well told RPG's of all time still it performed poorly, so did Septerra Core, the company went bankrupt, oh and don't forget Anacronox, which again had an amazing story, but all of them did poor wen it came down to sales, why, the same rason for which selling Hobs or Hegel, isn't a publishing houses only income. Bioware in my opinion found a balance, between making good inteligent RPG games, that sell, not like Beth that does not have the intelligence to come up with something on it's one having to ruin a good game like Fallout.

 

[Sander]

That is bull

If I remember correctly the first Diablo was considered the RPG that saved the genre back in 96, when RPG's were considered dead.

I can say that I played almost every bioware game, except jade empire, wasn't interested in the setting, (in a matter of fact i kinda played most of the main RPG's of the last 20 years, except the Ultima series) and found them very good. Mass effect's story isn't bad at all, It's not worse than fallout's (1 &2), In both cases the way the story is told or the options you have make it worth playing.

Iff you would run a busines, you should know that you have to reach a balance between quality and quantity, to pay your bills. Planescape,(this is not an art pour'l art world) was one of the most intriguing well told RPG's of all time still it performed poorly, so did Septerra Core, the company went bankrupt, oh and don't forget Anacronox, which again had an amazing story, but all of them did poor wen it came down to sales, why, the same rason for which selling Hobs or Hegel, isn't a publishing houses only income. Bioware in my opinion found a balance, between making good inteligent RPG games, that sell, not like Beth that does not have the intelligence to come up with something on it's one having to ruin a good game like Fallout.

There's a lot more to RPGs than good stories. In fact, I'd say a good story isn't a requirement for an RPG at all. People often define RPGs by the presence of character stats - this seems like a really stupid definition, especially with the addition of character stats to almost every genre.
What is a requirement is the presence of choices, and the ability of those choices to influence the game.

 

[Ravager69]

I am not debating if ME 1\2 is an RPG, it's not the point. It's about the same formula Bioware's been using since Baldur's Gate 1, which sometimes in acceptable, but mostly is boring to tears after finishing one or two of their games.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

You forgot one other element, with the exception of NWN and perhaps Dragon Age (haven't played it) your character is destined to defeat the large threat due to who they are.

Not much of a spoiler, in DA you drink a concoction to become a Witcher... hmm and Grey Warden, and that link of destiny ties you to your greatest enemy, the Archdemon (who's actually a dragon for whatever reason).


As for Diablo, it never "saved" any "genre". IIRC, back in the day roguelikes were a genre of their own, differentiated from RPG.

 

[nemo00]

Oh yeah...in Fallout to you were destined to save your willage, vault and in the process destroy a couple of evil organizations who were threatening to take over the planet.......it is the same thing in most of the RPG's except Planescape....hell it is the same thing in 90% of the games,not just in those made by Bioware

And don't tell me that in ME games your choices dont affect the outcome......heck I vas pleasently surprised to se the choices of my actions from the previouse game being reflected in the second one.....

And about diablo 1 read any review of the time, it was the game that relaunched RPGs, the critics of the time considering the genre a dead one.

 

[Sander]

Oh yeah...in Fallout to you were destined to save your willage, vault and in the process destroy a couple of evil organizations who were threatening to take over the planet.......it is the same thing in most of the RPG's except Planescape....hell it is the same thing in 90% of the games,not just in those made by Bioware

That's not really true. Fallout worked with a different mold, and started with a very personal quest (save your fault). And it wasn't that the big powers didn't believe you (hell, the Broterhood sends you out there, the Overseer wants you to do something about the Super Mutants), nor were you spending most of the game gathering support for your cause.

And don't tell me that in ME games your choices dont affect the outcome......heck I vas pleasently surprised to se the choices of my actions from the previouse game being reflected in the second one.....

I'm not arguing Mass Effect isn't an RPG. It isn't a particularly good one.

And about diablo 1 read any review of the time, it was the game that relaunched RPGs, the critics of the time considering the genre a dead one.

Sure. But to consider it an RPG in the same mold as Fallout, Baldur's Gate or even Ultima is nonsense. If anything, it's a roguelike.

 

[SL¥DE]

ME2 is good for my daily allotment of rockets to my chin.

 

[Ravager69]

Gamebanshee put up a review:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/reviews/96818-mass-effect-2.html

And to be honest, I agree with most, if not all of what has been written there.

 

[GreyViper]

Not sure if its old news, but apparently some of the squad mates were supposed to be available way earlier. Legion and tali being the best example. Gamefaqs has interesting thread about it.
link. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=944906&topic=53503450

"Thanks to the internet and it's many intelligent users (/sarcasm) a way to have Legion from the beginning of ME2 is possible.

Step 1) Download and install this tool allowing you to edit the Coalesced (File that contains weapon, squad, mission, and other game data): http://social.bioware.com/project/1854/
Step 2) Open it up, and search for the folder you have ME2 installed to.
Step 3) Use the search bar and search for "SFXGame.BioSFHandler_PartySelection"
Step 4) Find "AvailableLabel=IsSelectableGeth" and change Geth" to "Leading"
Step 5) Click on the Rebuild Coalesced tab
Step 6) Enjoy Legion ingame, his loyalty mission and everything else should work just fine