Yes, this does help me. Thank you, kedimsidomuz. I am not that familiar with playing an evil character. I am looking for things that would be affected in order to decide whether or not to implement this and to what extent.
Megamod 2.3 technical issues and suggestions
- Thread starter MIB88
- Start date
Stevex said:
You can also 'bring back' characters at the EPA. Of course, in those two cases cryogenics was involved or there was a huge lab that was able to do it (and Dobbs still died).
And, an autodoc script could be modified recreate a party member if one dies... But I'm not gonna do it. To play the game and not be worried about your fellow travellers because you can just resurrect them? That takes out something really important. The Wasteland is supposed to be dangerous. It's supposed to be risky wandering around and trying to save the world.
So, no resurrection.
Slapping negative karma on a dude for removing the tat is inane. What would make sense, however, is adding a permanent -1 CH for the scar. It doesn't make sense to add a karma penalty for a good action (leaving the slavers).
The game is set up to do certain things, to behave a certain way, if you are a slaver. That's why I asked what were some of the other things associated with having the slaver trait. To simply subtract 1 charisma point for the chance to be as bad as you want to be, and then go back, that does not sit well with me. At least if there was more bad karma, it would take more good deeds to get back on the good side of things... to make up for your time as a slaver. However, to be a slaver, and do all those quests associated with that, then to have it undone with a -1 penalty to Charisma so that the player can do all the 'good boy' quests, it doesn't seem enough. So, until I can come up with a good way to deal with that, something to balance that out, I won't implement the ability to remove that trait.
Minigun Jim
It Wandered In From the Wastes
It makes perfect sense from a game balance point of view.Ashmo said:
Slaver and -101 Karma are both statuses that give your character a "bad guy" reputation to a lot of characters. They are effectively the same thing, ecxept Karma can be removed should you wish.
(Cassidy, Sulik, Rebecca etc) Removing Slaver instantly sets your status back to neutral if you haven't got more than -100 Karma. Therefore, adding -101 Karma would balance it out by turning a permanent mark of evil into a debt to repay.
From an RPing point of view, it wouldn't be a "good" act to remove yourself from the Slavers. It would just mean you weren't workig for that particular "bad guy" faction any more. Same as for finishing a crime family quest chain without becoming a Made Man.
Adding in a Karma penalty can also work as the voice of the character's conscience thinking "Oh hell, what have I done!" and creating shame they need to deal with.
I can't quite agree.
While leaving the slavers isn't necessarily a benevolent act per se, it isn't a heinous act either.
If being a slaver is so evil, becoming one should be penalised.
Look at it from an inside perspective: a year ago, you joined the Slavers Guild; you went with it for a while, but eventually realised your mistake; now you want to change and for that, you remove your tattoo. Would it make sense to give you a karmic penalty for that decision?
Karma is supposed to be a track record: good actions balancing bad actions. If all the evil you ever did was joining the slavers, it wouldn't make sense that everyone would still hate you once you choose no longer to identify with them.
It's not just running off to pursue other opportunities as with the mobsters, it's an act of breaking the ties with your former employer, permanently.
If you want a karma drop, put it where it makes sense: in the beginning.
While leaving the slavers isn't necessarily a benevolent act per se, it isn't a heinous act either.
If being a slaver is so evil, becoming one should be penalised.
Look at it from an inside perspective: a year ago, you joined the Slavers Guild; you went with it for a while, but eventually realised your mistake; now you want to change and for that, you remove your tattoo. Would it make sense to give you a karmic penalty for that decision?
Karma is supposed to be a track record: good actions balancing bad actions. If all the evil you ever did was joining the slavers, it wouldn't make sense that everyone would still hate you once you choose no longer to identify with them.
It's not just running off to pursue other opportunities as with the mobsters, it's an act of breaking the ties with your former employer, permanently.
If you want a karma drop, put it where it makes sense: in the beginning.
Minigun Jim
It Wandered In From the Wastes
"Minigun Jim was hit in the eyes by a Blinding Flash of the Obvious for 20 points"Ashmo said:
That... would make a LOT more sense. That way you could work off the karma beforehand but it would have no effect until you got the tattoo removed. And since Slaver and -101 Karma are basically thesame thing, you wouldn't notice much difference.
Touquet
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Mib88, is there a bug with the script/.msg for Vault 14?
I cannot open the door on level 2 after repairing the power generator to free the slave and the SM.
The message was the same for Vault 15 when I use science an repair on it and after the computer on level 3 display the choice for the force field like vault 15. But I think there no force field in vault 14 entrance.
BTW, the lights are now functional in the EPA... :s but still cannot find the Gatling Gauss... have Marcus, Cass, Vic, Sulik, Skynet and Klint... cannot have Myron and/or Lenny like in the previous MM release.-- In the previous version I had everyone with me... strange... "Klint, Sulik, Vic, Cass, Marcus, Lenny, Myron, Dogmeat, cyberdog, K-9, Gorys, Skynet and the Wanamigo." Quite a big party but was fun.
Have you change the min requirement to get the cybernetic brain in SAD??
I cannot open the door on level 2 after repairing the power generator to free the slave and the SM.
The message was the same for Vault 15 when I use science an repair on it and after the computer on level 3 display the choice for the force field like vault 15. But I think there no force field in vault 14 entrance.
BTW, the lights are now functional in the EPA... :s but still cannot find the Gatling Gauss... have Marcus, Cass, Vic, Sulik, Skynet and Klint... cannot have Myron and/or Lenny like in the previous MM release.-- In the previous version I had everyone with me... strange... "Klint, Sulik, Vic, Cass, Marcus, Lenny, Myron, Dogmeat, cyberdog, K-9, Gorys, Skynet and the Wanamigo." Quite a big party but was fun.
Have you change the min requirement to get the cybernetic brain in SAD??
beatenanimal
First time out of the vault
Hello im new here so don't laugh me out the door about my idea. I had an idea about the tattoo removal for the slavers guild.
What if getting it removed consisted of your char wanting to leave so you go talk to the huge main boss guy he says some thing like " The only way your getting out of this is in a body bag" well then you wind up having to kill the whole huge group so you do but instead of geting the tat removed a small explosion happens or something and you get a message about how "the blast removed all signs of your connection with the slavers leaving you with a disfigured face to reminded you of what you did"
as for the penalty's i think you should be rewarded for what you did because after all it was a good dead but instead of giving the char - karma as a reminder how about making the fight really hard almost impossible and if they win they get set back to neutral a clean slate.
And this might be a dumb question but MIB88 on the wiki site you have a link to it says there is a 2.33 version of the mod when all i can find is a 2.32 is 2.33 out there for download or is this just a error on the site
What if getting it removed consisted of your char wanting to leave so you go talk to the huge main boss guy he says some thing like " The only way your getting out of this is in a body bag" well then you wind up having to kill the whole huge group so you do but instead of geting the tat removed a small explosion happens or something and you get a message about how "the blast removed all signs of your connection with the slavers leaving you with a disfigured face to reminded you of what you did"
as for the penalty's i think you should be rewarded for what you did because after all it was a good dead but instead of giving the char - karma as a reminder how about making the fight really hard almost impossible and if they win they get set back to neutral a clean slate.
And this might be a dumb question but MIB88 on the wiki site you have a link to it says there is a 2.33 version of the mod when all i can find is a 2.32 is 2.33 out there for download or is this just a error on the site
@Touqet:
I don't understand why you are having an issue with those doors in Vault 14. Last time I played through that section it worked fine. Are you having this problem every time? If possible, please reload a game from before you entered Vault 14 and see if you have the same error.
As for not being able to get the Gatling Gauss Gun, you didn't have to tell me who was in your party. The fact that you do not have the weapon tells me quite clearly who you do NOT have in your party. That is the closest thing you are going to get to a hint from me in this thread.
Also, I haven't changed the requirements to get Skynet... in either body.
@beatenanimal:
Regarding your idea, it makes for an interesting story. However, I don't want to force the player into that. What if the player simply wants to stop being a slaver, without that particular confrontation. So, maybe that could be one option. Something to consider happening if the player tries to go the diplomatic route. Or maybe there are more slavers on your trail attacking you, since you left them. Or maybe more bounty hunter encounters. But I digress.
I don't know how I'd script an explosion to happen (Well, I could have Metzger or one of his lackeys throw a molotov, I suppose). Said text and disfigurement could happen if the player wins the battle.
The autodoc still remains a possible option, too. Would be much "neater" than being burned by a molotov. So, maybe going one way reduces charisma by 1 point... another route reduces it by 2 points. I'll think about it.
As for as getting the character back to neutral for this one act...No. Taking slaves is a pretty big deal in my book. Just leaving the Slavers is not good enough considering a person should not have joined to begin with (not if you want to be considered one of the good guys, that is). A bigger karma drop upon receiving the trait might work... just in case the player changes their mind and wants to be good later. Gives the idea that the player is gonna have to do a lot of good deeds to make up for his actions as a Slaver.
I don't understand why you are having an issue with those doors in Vault 14. Last time I played through that section it worked fine. Are you having this problem every time? If possible, please reload a game from before you entered Vault 14 and see if you have the same error.
As for not being able to get the Gatling Gauss Gun, you didn't have to tell me who was in your party. The fact that you do not have the weapon tells me quite clearly who you do NOT have in your party. That is the closest thing you are going to get to a hint from me in this thread.
Also, I haven't changed the requirements to get Skynet... in either body.
@beatenanimal:
Regarding your idea, it makes for an interesting story. However, I don't want to force the player into that. What if the player simply wants to stop being a slaver, without that particular confrontation. So, maybe that could be one option. Something to consider happening if the player tries to go the diplomatic route. Or maybe there are more slavers on your trail attacking you, since you left them. Or maybe more bounty hunter encounters. But I digress.
I don't know how I'd script an explosion to happen (Well, I could have Metzger or one of his lackeys throw a molotov, I suppose). Said text and disfigurement could happen if the player wins the battle.
The autodoc still remains a possible option, too. Would be much "neater" than being burned by a molotov. So, maybe going one way reduces charisma by 1 point... another route reduces it by 2 points. I'll think about it.
As for as getting the character back to neutral for this one act...No. Taking slaves is a pretty big deal in my book. Just leaving the Slavers is not good enough considering a person should not have joined to begin with (not if you want to be considered one of the good guys, that is). A bigger karma drop upon receiving the trait might work... just in case the player changes their mind and wants to be good later. Gives the idea that the player is gonna have to do a lot of good deeds to make up for his actions as a Slaver.
Oracle
Vault Senior Citizen
MIB88 said:
Yea the autodoc or any other skilled docter as well would do. However the more intelient docters should refuse. If you're playing a high speech skilled and intellient PC, then you might confince them (tell them it for the greater good and you surly would free them again for example) and for less skilled docters should give you an higher penalty (-2 CH with maybe -1 PE tatoo is on you head right? or maybe even a hit point penalty). Cost should be high as well for those who know the tatoo. Or just as Jo to cut it out of your head (for free with -3 CH penalty))Just posting some ideas.
Touquet
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
MIB88 said:
Ok I will retry again the Vault 14. And keep you inform about it. Try moere than one time just to be sure.
As for the EPA Gauss Weapon I will continue to try with other npc then
I definitely agree with the idea of penalising the character for leaving the slavers.
The charisma penalty makes sense, even more so the more crudely the tattoo is removed (even the most expensive and difficult option should have a -1 CH penalty, though, IMO).
The whole post-factum karmic meddling doesn't make much sense to me (say what you want, Fallout allows you to make up for LOTS of bad deeds in the long run, so a hefty karmic penalty for joining the slavers would work, as you can't really do much about it while you're a slaver anyway -- most nice guys won't even talk to you).
The all-out confrontation doesn't make sense either, as it forces all player types down the same line (would Charisma Boy really tell the slavers to GTFO after joining them for some quick money?).
Is there a way to make slavers hate your guts for being an ex-slaver (new trait like the slaver one)? It would make sense that any slaver would consider you a traitor and shoot you on sight, especially in the Den where people know your face from your slaving days.
The core idea here is consequence, not penalty. You don't want to ruin someone's game just because they decided to try out slaving (like BIS did). You only want them to feel the consequences if they decide to chicken out.
Betrayal should be the first step towards becoming a better person again.
The charisma penalty makes sense, even more so the more crudely the tattoo is removed (even the most expensive and difficult option should have a -1 CH penalty, though, IMO).
The whole post-factum karmic meddling doesn't make much sense to me (say what you want, Fallout allows you to make up for LOTS of bad deeds in the long run, so a hefty karmic penalty for joining the slavers would work, as you can't really do much about it while you're a slaver anyway -- most nice guys won't even talk to you).
The all-out confrontation doesn't make sense either, as it forces all player types down the same line (would Charisma Boy really tell the slavers to GTFO after joining them for some quick money?).
Is there a way to make slavers hate your guts for being an ex-slaver (new trait like the slaver one)? It would make sense that any slaver would consider you a traitor and shoot you on sight, especially in the Den where people know your face from your slaving days.
The core idea here is consequence, not penalty. You don't want to ruin someone's game just because they decided to try out slaving (like BIS did). You only want them to feel the consequences if they decide to chicken out.
Betrayal should be the first step towards becoming a better person again.
Minigun Jim
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Hmm, an all-out bad guy shootin' should up your karma some and that doesn't require any taking short of "DIE!"Ashmo said:
.
Sir Robin said:
Yes, it is odd. Like I said, though, I haven't changed anything with that location in a long time. And nobody else has notified me of such a crash. Who do you have in your party? And, where are you in the game (still at the beginning, or well into it)? I might need a savegame from you so I can see for myself what is happening.
One last question: Did you install 2.33 on a clean Fallout 2 install? Or did you just add it on top of your 2.32 game?
MIB88 said:
Indeed I have noticed that no-one here, and on the other threat, has experienced such crashes.
Klint, Sulik, Cassidy.
December 2242,
Level 22,
XP 237,414,
HP 141
Skilled, Finesse
Small guns 195%
Energy weapons 194%
Science 110%
Repair 125 %
ST 10 (with power armour)
PE 09
EN 07
IN 10
AG 09
LK 07
CH 06
Since my first post here I hit upon an idea: I always work with a ramdisk running as partition Z: I disabled it and, to be quite sure, I completely uninstalled the software. Same thing, MegaMod crashes in exactly the same way when I enter Primitive Tribe.
Yes... but what a hassle for you
I keep thinking that it might have to do with my OS, WinME. But it does not make sense to me, it's clutching at straws. Does anyone here run WinME or 98?
I followed the same procedure as when I had installed 2.32. I did a clean install of Fallout2, then I installed 2.33 as required. I even deleted my saved games. I also checked that all the *.pro files were read-only.
And back to the BOS research facility. I left Klint, Cassidy and Sulik at the BOS Bunker, and went to the research facility alone. Same thing. The guards do not know me. I took off my armour (King Arthur's armour, by courtesy of the Vorpal Rat), and dropped it on the ground. No change. The guards won't let me through.
It goes like this:
Stop. Who are you? How did you get here?
I have a choice of two answers:
1. Eh... Hmmmm.... But how did you get here?
2. Excuse me. It seems I've mistaken this for a cave.
Neither answer is satisfactory. Either I get into a fight (1, then "You'll pay dearly for your words"), or I retreat.
Another thing, but very minor. Having delivered the "small piece of machinery" to General Barton at the BOS Bunker, Klint, Sulik, Cassidy and I now have one small piece of machinery each... and they don't seem to attract mutants at all!
Were you able to go to the Primitive Tribe in 2.33?
I didn't change anything with Timeslip's work in version 2.32 or 2.33, so it is nothing with sfall or ddraw.
Well, it might be some corruption that has entered that game... it happens. Do you have a savegame from earlier in the game (say, before you went to get Cassidy) that you can try?
If you still get errors, send the savegame to me at marobin88@yahoo.com .
I didn't change anything with Timeslip's work in version 2.32 or 2.33, so it is nothing with sfall or ddraw.
Well, it might be some corruption that has entered that game... it happens. Do you have a savegame from earlier in the game (say, before you went to get Cassidy) that you can try?
If you still get errors, send the savegame to me at marobin88@yahoo.com .
MIB88 said:
No, not at all. Same, exactly, as with 2.32.
Yes, 27 September 2241, at the entrance of Toxic Caves with Klint and Sulik. I vaguely remember having once headed for Primitive Tribe very early in the game, but I am not 100% sure. I'll try again from this saved game.
Will do.