Merry Christmas from Bethesda

[Lexx]

Maybe NMA should send Christmas card to Herve Caen and Jason D. Anderson? And to Obsidian guys too? Seriously.

I think, this is a nice idea.

 

[Wasteland Stories]

What if I'm Jewish?

I'm jewish too, whatever. I'm not celebrate Christmas, but Hanukkah (today) etc.

Hmm should the vault boy be a rabbi?

Like Hanukkah zombie from Futurama: Bender's Big Score?

I think, this is a nice idea.

So, Wooz? Or somebody else?

 

[Ashmo]

GIVE ME MY COOKIE DAMN IT

Here.

 

[Morbus]

I don't think "Imperialist" is the right word here. Wishing a merry Christmas, as an American company, to Americans is not exactly the same as, say, enslaving Africa or putting a McDonald's in the pyramids of Gizeh (or how it's spelled in English).

Yes, that's right. For the lack of better words though...

If you believe Christmas is bullcrap, that's your loss.

Or win.

Nobody is FORCING you to celebrate it.

I know, but it's kind of discrimination for those who celebrate different things.

I personally go with whatever gives me more gifts

If you happen to be in a part of the world where Christmas is traditionally celebrated and you don't like it, sucks for you.

Yeah, but as you said, nobody is forcing me to celebrate it. What I meant, however, is that it's... humm... unfair? For those who celebrate other things, I mean. And you see television series treating this date with (more) fairness. For ex. last year Grey's Anathomy had both xmas trees and those jewish candles in the hospital (or was it the clinic?)... That kind of thing. It's a good thing already that it's "happy holidays" and that's nice.

Heck, the Christmas jingles at every supermarket get on my nerves, too, but as long as they don't broadcast subversive messages and try to program me into doing their bidding, that's fine with me.

I don't go to supermarkets.

It's not like the government is going around forcing you to put little Christmas trees and pictures of Jesus in your shopping windows (virtual cookie for anyone who can guess the historical reference).

Historical reference? Nazis did that. Italian fascism did that. Russia had that. Portugal and Spain had that. Some eastern extremist Muslim countries have that. Not exactly as that, but it's common to force a certain culture on the people to have them homogenized. And, of course, it's a good thing it's not happening like that, but it's the same thing in a different scale (and with different results).

What do you want? Lawsuits to force Nestlé to produce chocolate chandeliers for Hanukkah in the name of cultural diversity?

As much as I hate to say it, but we live in a Christianity-linked culture. I'm all for secularisation and freedom from religion, but whining about imperialist messages because someone wishes you a merry Christmas?

I just say "I don't celebrate". I don't take offense. OR I say "thank you" depending on the person AND my hypocritical level at the moment.

That's about as ridiculous as cutting out two thirds of the national anthem because the text happens to be patriotic (another cookie; I do agree that the vague borders implied in the anthem can be understood as politically problematic, though) or adding thousands of supplementary gender pronouns to public announcements in the spirit of "anti-sexism".

It's closely related but it's not the same thing. Everybody should have the right to express his beliefs and opinions and whatever, it's just not exactly the same thing here. In France, religious symbols were prohibited in public for a reason. I don't agree with it, but there are reasons behind the measure. It's like when in laic (sp?) countries schools aren't allowed to have crucifixes and religious references of the sort. I don't know if it's like that everywhere, but here in Portugal it's like that. And I fully agree. Like it or not, you are imposing a culture, a way of living, but then again, you are imposing whenever you advertise something. And the more people liking something, the more that something gets advertized... Yeah, I know...

I'm jewish too

I'm not. I just asked

 

[Mord_Sith]

Wasn't Christmas originally put in place to cover over a pagan holiday in Rome so that civil riot wouldn't break out between the old faiths and the new faiths?

If memory serves, that fellow Jesus was born in March roughly, but they changed it to December to cover over the pagan winter solstice.

Either way, to me Christmas is really just about being with the family and a time for celebration, not directly attached to religion in any fashion as it, it isn't about showing off who got the best present, it isn't about abject and pure holiness, and it certainly does not constitute caroling in this city!

Anyhee, that's my two bits.

 

[Kukident]

<snap>long-post</snap>

thinking about things like that would mean little effort, which apparently in their opinion is not worth it, as they obviously don't care.

pathetic

please dont buy the fallout license if you dont care, bethtards.

 

[TheWesDude]

i wonder if you could write bethesdas office in a nice fashion asking for one of those postcards and get one.

 

[welsh]

Bah... I hate doing Christmas cards. I wonder if they also sent the bubble head.

Well its nice to know they are listening to the criticism, even if they are not doing much about it. In a sense, this card accepts that there is a significant number of fans who don't approve what they are doing.

But I hope we don't sound like that.

 

[Ashmo]

Intermingling local customs into your religion's when converting a population was common practice for most religions throughout European history. Nothing special about that. The details are highly arbitrary anyway -- dogma and "lore" doesn't need to be historically consistent.

As for discriminating against minorities: OF course we're imposing our culture on immigrants. If you come to my country, I expect you to behave according to my cultural standards. That doesn't mean you can't keep up compatible traditions from your culture, but don't expect any special "awareness" just because you are different.

You cannot live in a cultural bubble, independent of the surrounding culture -- even though a lot of people are trying (and tensions tend to arise from that).
You are influenced by the culture around you and your culture influences that too. You can't expect your influence to be as big as the influence on you -- it's an obvious matter of proportion.

A point can be made that minorities like the Jewish subculture have already made enough of an influence on US culture as a whole for "Happy Holiday" to be a valid greeting without an air of political correctness, but as long as the pledge, the political speeches and the dollar bills are full of Christian references, I don't think so.

The correct course of development, of course, would not be "respect" Hannukah, Kwanza, Wintereenmas or whatever you can think of next, but to include them. If your celebration can't be included and the only reason you can think of is a religious one, you fail at integration (mostly, because your religion is incompatible with integration -- a case could be made for Orthodox Judaism to fall into this category) and your celebration is doomed to remain a subcultural one.

Why can't people accept that their subculture isn't dominant for once? As long as the SYSTEM is democratic and encourages individual freedom (I'm not saying most democracies do this), it's not particularly unfair on the individual to be in a particular subculture.

I'm a metalhead and hate R&B. Do you think I am happy to be in what seems to have become a minority? But I don't go around demanding that all nearby discos stop playing R&B or put my favourite metal in the mix -- or worse, blend the two genres altogether.

 

[PlanHex]

Well its nice to know they are listening to the criticism, even if they are not doing much about it. In a sense, this card accepts that there is a significant number of fans who don't approve what they are doing.

But I hope we don't sound like that.

I think the 'ZOMG THEY CHANGED FALLOUT' part was just a friendly jab from that Andy dude from VE3D and not on the card at all.

Heh, it was a joke via IM. Wasn't aware he was going to post it, and it's definitely not serious. We <3 NMA.

I thought Beth put it on the card too at first and pretty much reacted like this:

 

[Mord_Sith]

From an office metal-head, you're not alone, I listen to hard radio on my breaks and have all sorts of tunes at home.

*Sappy sympathy scene* We gotta stick together man!



although it's Rap that burns my briskits more than the overall R & B category, I still think there's a place for blues myself, but Rap is poetry, not a song, it should not be touted as such and it makes my ears burn from that evil spouting

 

[Briosafreak]

This was a new record on off-topic posts.

This used to happen all the time in the old days.

 

[Morbus]

Wasn't Christmas originally put in place to cover over a pagan holiday in Rome so that civil riot wouldn't break out between the old faiths and the new faiths?

Yes, it was. The Winter Solstice. It's all the same thing though...

As for discriminating against minorities: OF course we're imposing our culture on immigrants. If you come to my country, I expect you to behave according to my cultural standards. That doesn't mean you can't keep up compatible traditions from your culture, but don't expect any special "awareness" just because you are different.

By imposing a specific religion as a country's culture, you are erasing the sense of laicism (or whatever it's called). Non-religiousness of the state.

You cannot live in a cultural bubble, independent of the surrounding culture -- even though a lot of people are trying (and tensions tend to arise from that).

That's not what I'm saying.

You are influenced by the culture around you and your culture influences that too. You can't expect your influence to be as big as the influence on you -- it's an obvious matter of proportion.

So what? Ad verecundiam? What if the culture around me praises racism? Does it mean I can't whine about racism going against my ethical principals and that the society shouldn't impose it to others? Does it make racism good? I don't think so. The fact that most people like something doesn't mean we should assume everyone does. Or act as if everyone did.

The correct course of development, of course, would not be "respect" Hannukah, Kwanza, Wintereenmas or whatever you can think of next, but to include them.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying.

If your celebration can't be included and the only reason you can think of is a religious one, you fail at integration (mostly, because your religion is incompatible with integration -- a case could be made for Orthodox Judaism to fall into this category) and your celebration is doomed to remain a subcultural one.

Exactly. The same may be applied to political principals and things like that. This is not the case, however.

In classical greece and rome, religion was not like what we have today. Back then, it was ok and everything was fine. The Roman Empire, however, changed that to an extend where even us today feel that: religion has become something of masses, where we show our religion/beliefs to others and that affects our social life. Back in classical times, it wasn't like that. There were temples, of course, but the biggest part of the rites and such things weren't made in public (like in churches) but rather at home, in people's private spaces. Only the roman empire began to impose partial religious aspects on people, which was, for the main part, the cult of the emperor. That is way christians were persecuted back then, not because they were christians (minorities were tolerated and accepted, in the end, it was none of their business what beliefs we had) but because they refused to make the cult of the emperor. That made them, to put it simply, outlaws, and thus, they were persecuted.

In the contemporary age, and probably in the age to come, religion is something people are glad to share with others. Their beliefs are, not only passed on through generations, but also cause wars, inside families, amongst friends, between entire countries. That is my sole problem with all of this, because this kind of ostensiveness imposes an ideology on the masses. We're not talking about common ethics, but beliefs, that should never be imposed on someone. It also leads to possible outcasts, because, like it or not, people like being "normal", they like being as everyone else is, and when they see someone different, most of them don't like him and he becomes an outcast. Geeks, orthodox Jews (hugh...), people that like Fallout and not shiny mindless games, that kind of things... By imposing something this subjective on the masses, you are opening multiple doors for rivalries and struggles inside the said masses. Not good...

Why can't people accept that their subculture isn't dominant for once?

Because democracy is flawed, and just because most people think a given way doesn't mean that way is the right one. Pure and simple. Furthermore, we're talking about non-religious countries, where every religion should have the same chance to strive and develop.

I'm a metalhead and hate R&B. Do you think I am happy to be in what seems to have become a minority? But I don't go around demanding that all nearby discos stop playing R&B or put my favourite metal in the mix -- or worse, blend the two genres altogether.

I can see your case pretty clearly. I'm in a similar situation I love RPGs xD

Anyway, what you said made me think: it's all a matter of money. Companies praise christmass because it's what gives them more money... I didn't see this before. Now that I see it... well, lets keep on complaining because that's precisely what Bethesda is doing and we complain about it too.

 

[TheWesDude]

the TBC ( True Birth of Christ ) is reasoned to be somewhere in the end of september, more specificially the 27-29th... sometime in there.

its celebrated in mid-late winter due to when christianity was a minority and they wanted to celebrate holidays when the romans did to make it easier which was in the romans did ( due to the druidic calander )

 

[Morbus]

It's actually related to the solstice. You have Christmas on winter's and saint john in summer's. The only two holidays celebrating the birth (and not the passing) of saints. Both births are speculative as well.

 

[Wooz]

So, Wooz? Or somebody else?

Uh, a Christmas card for Herve Caen wouldn't be the same one as for Jason D. Anderson.

 

[Ausir]

Funny that unlike Bethsoft, CD Projekt sends The Witcher christmas cards with Geralt to all fans who sign up.

 

[shihonage]

As for discriminating against minorities: OF course we're imposing our culture on immigrants. If you come to my country, I expect you to behave according to my cultural standards. That doesn't mean you can't keep up compatible traditions from your culture, but don't expect any special "awareness" just because you are different.

By imposing a specific religion as a country's culture, you are erasing the sense of laicism (or whatever it's called). Non-religiousness of the state.

Christmas is not a religion, it is a holiday tradition, as Ashmo outlined earlier. I've had nobody try to force their religion on me here, honestly, except for a Muslim cab driver (oh noes I said something politically incorrect !). But its true. Go figure.

Wait, wait... and Jehovas' Witnesses, but neither the cab driver nor JW do represent a government agenda any more than does the hobo near Jack In The Box.

Implying that Christmas is some sort of religious indoctrination is just your typical slippery slope argument.

 

[st0lve]

Why not send a Christmas card to Interplay?

 

[Mord_Sith]

What, to the lines of 'congratulations on getting out of debt, let's just hope your next game we will love because you sold away the rights to anything else you could do to redeem yourselves to us?'

In all seriousness, yes they are (almost) out of debt, yes I will likely buy their next game, but they are also the reason why FINO exists to this day, because they sold the rights to it.

It was a sound business deal, but let's hope that their soul didn't go with the deal.

I wonder, if we all support Interplay, and pull them out of the hole, if they buy back the fallout rights when Beth falls flat on it's face for this, we just MIGHT see Van Buren, or a graphically updated version of it with the same storyline and maybe some distant input from Tim dare I dream...

Anyways that's IMHO the best scenario that can come out of this lot, consider Fallout to be the loan's promissory note of returning, the money, with interest obviously, then we can pray, hope, and ask for a real fallout game.

Once again I'm daring to dream...