Wasteland Stories said:Maybe NMA should send Christmas card to Herve Caen and Jason D. Anderson? And to Obsidian guys too? Seriously.
I think, this is a nice idea.
![Smile :) :)](/../../xencustomimages/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Wasteland Stories said:Maybe NMA should send Christmas card to Herve Caen and Jason D. Anderson? And to Obsidian guys too? Seriously.
I'm jewish too, whatever. I'm not celebrate Christmas, but Hanukkah (today) etc.What if I'm Jewish?
Hmm should the vault boy be a rabbi?
So, Wooz? Or somebody else?I think, this is a nice idea.
Yes, that's right. For the lack of better words though...Ashmo said:I don't think "Imperialist" is the right word here. Wishing a merry Christmas, as an American company, to Americans is not exactly the same as, say, enslaving Africa or putting a McDonald's in the pyramids of Gizeh (or how it's spelled in English).
Or win.Ashmo said:If you believe Christmas is bullcrap, that's your loss.
I know, but it's kind of discrimination for those who celebrate different things.Ashmo said:Nobody is FORCING you to celebrate it.
Yeah, but as you said, nobody is forcing me to celebrate it. What I meant, however, is that it's... humm... unfair? For those who celebrate other things, I mean. And you see television series treating this date with (more) fairness. For ex. last year Grey's Anathomy had both xmas trees and those jewish candles in the hospital (or was it the clinic?)... That kind of thing. It's a good thing already that it's "happy holidays" and that's nice.Ashmo said:If you happen to be in a part of the world where Christmas is traditionally celebrated and you don't like it, sucks for you.
I don't go to supermarkets.Ashmo said:Heck, the Christmas jingles at every supermarket get on my nerves, too, but as long as they don't broadcast subversive messages and try to program me into doing their bidding, that's fine with me.
Historical reference? Nazis did that. Italian fascism did that. Russia had that. Portugal and Spain had that. Some eastern extremist Muslim countries have that. Not exactly as that, but it's common to force a certain culture on the people to have them homogenized. And, of course, it's a good thing it's not happening like that, but it's the same thing in a different scale (and with different results).Ashmo said:It's not like the government is going around forcing you to put little Christmas trees and pictures of Jesus in your shopping windows (virtual cookie for anyone who can guess the historical reference).
I just say "I don't celebrate". I don't take offense. OR I say "thank you" depending on the person AND my hypocritical level at the moment.Ashmo said:What do you want? Lawsuits to force Nestlé to produce chocolate chandeliers for Hanukkah in the name of cultural diversity?
As much as I hate to say it, but we live in a Christianity-linked culture. I'm all for secularisation and freedom from religion, but whining about imperialist messages because someone wishes you a merry Christmas?
It's closely related but it's not the same thing. Everybody should have the right to express his beliefs and opinions and whatever, it's just not exactly the same thing here. In France, religious symbols were prohibited in public for a reason. I don't agree with it, but there are reasons behind the measure. It's like when in laic (sp?) countries schools aren't allowed to have crucifixes and religious references of the sort. I don't know if it's like that everywhere, but here in Portugal it's like that. And I fully agree. Like it or not, you are imposing a culture, a way of living, but then again, you are imposing whenever you advertise something. And the more people liking something, the more that something gets advertized... Yeah, I know...Ashmo said:That's about as ridiculous as cutting out two thirds of the national anthem because the text happens to be patriotic (another cookie; I do agree that the vague borders implied in the anthem can be understood as politically problematic, though) or adding thousands of supplementary gender pronouns to public announcements in the spirit of "anti-sexism".
I'm not. I just askedWasteland Stories said:I'm jewish too
thinking about things like that would mean little effort, which apparently in their opinion is not worth it, as they obviously don't care.Ashmo said:<snap>long-post</snap>
I think the 'ZOMG THEY CHANGED FALLOUT' part was just a friendly jab from that Andy dude from VE3D and not on the card at all.welsh said:Well its nice to know they are listening to the criticism, even if they are not doing much about it. In a sense, this card accepts that there is a significant number of fans who don't approve what they are doing.
But I hope we don't sound like that.
AndyB said:Heh, it was a joke via IM. Wasn't aware he was going to post it, and it's definitely not serious. We <3 NMA.
Yes, it was. The Winter Solstice. It's all the same thing though...Mord_Sith said:Wasn't Christmas originally put in place to cover over a pagan holiday in Rome so that civil riot wouldn't break out between the old faiths and the new faiths?
By imposing a specific religion as a country's culture, you are erasing the sense of laicism (or whatever it's called). Non-religiousness of the state.Ashmo said:As for discriminating against minorities: OF course we're imposing our culture on immigrants. If you come to my country, I expect you to behave according to my cultural standards. That doesn't mean you can't keep up compatible traditions from your culture, but don't expect any special "awareness" just because you are different.
That's not what I'm saying.Ashmo said:You cannot live in a cultural bubble, independent of the surrounding culture -- even though a lot of people are trying (and tensions tend to arise from that).
So what? Ad verecundiam? What if the culture around me praises racism? Does it mean I can't whine about racism going against my ethical principals and that the society shouldn't impose it to others? Does it make racism good? I don't think so. The fact that most people like something doesn't mean we should assume everyone does. Or act as if everyone did.Ashmo said:You are influenced by the culture around you and your culture influences that too. You can't expect your influence to be as big as the influence on you -- it's an obvious matter of proportion.
Exactly, that's what I'm saying.Ashmo said:The correct course of development, of course, would not be "respect" Hannukah, Kwanza, Wintereenmas or whatever you can think of next, but to include them.
Exactly. The same may be applied to political principals and things like that. This is not the case, however.Ashmo said:If your celebration can't be included and the only reason you can think of is a religious one, you fail at integration (mostly, because your religion is incompatible with integration -- a case could be made for Orthodox Judaism to fall into this category) and your celebration is doomed to remain a subcultural one.
Because democracy is flawed, and just because most people think a given way doesn't mean that way is the right one. Pure and simple. Furthermore, we're talking about non-religious countries, where every religion should have the same chance to strive and develop.Ashmo said:Why can't people accept that their subculture isn't dominant for once?
I can see your case pretty clearly. I'm in a similar situationAshmo said:I'm a metalhead and hate R&B. Do you think I am happy to be in what seems to have become a minority? But I don't go around demanding that all nearby discos stop playing R&B or put my favourite metal in the mix -- or worse, blend the two genres altogether.
Wasteland Stories said:So, Wooz? Or somebody else?
Morbus said:By imposing a specific religion as a country's culture, you are erasing the sense of laicism (or whatever it's called). Non-religiousness of the state.Ashmo said:As for discriminating against minorities: OF course we're imposing our culture on immigrants. If you come to my country, I expect you to behave according to my cultural standards. That doesn't mean you can't keep up compatible traditions from your culture, but don't expect any special "awareness" just because you are different.