MIB88 MegaMod - opinions, technical issues, etc.

[MIB88]

Re: Bug reports

1)Klint...

(Going to dump him for Sulik cause he's too buggy)

There are issues with Klint that I think are due to you not having all of the required proto files for him. His original author did make him too powerful in my opinion. Feel free not to use him, because he is a cheat in his current state until I change him. [I will address some of your specific questions after I've had a chance to look into a few of them.]

5)Getting encounters with bandits wearing Metal armor before reaching Klamath. Metal armor shouldn't show till after the Den (Too unbalancing to be wearing Metal armor and just reaching Klamath)

Again, until I change the code, something I have already mentioned in these threads a few times already, feel free to not take their armor if you feel it gives you an unfair advantage.

6) Slim buys gecko pelts but never runs out of gold. Only place where gold is mined is Redding. Everyone else has to scrape or steal for gold. Gold was supposed to be hard to get your hands on. This infinite gold supply is very unbalancing.

Never even looked at this. But you do have to give him something in return, right? How is that unbalancing? It is no different than killing the geckos and selling them elsewhere. Now, it would be bad if he gave you gold for nothing.

7) Lost drinking contest in Gecko with Dunton message after waking up says 'commoners has swilled your with beer. Swilled your what with beer or is that supposed to be 'you' not 'your'?

8) You give Sally a beer and she lowers the prices of Bath House. She says 25 for hand wipe and you say '35, that's...' 35 should be 25.

I will correct these dialog errors.

9) Dialogue with Emily has entries too long so they overlap the next dialogue choice.
9.1)If you insult Emily she attacks even though it's obviously suicidal for her to do so. Rest of Trapper Town goes bezerk.

I know you are not suggesting that I rewrite Emily's combat code. No way. Then why not change every critter...all of them? That means coming up with some type of arbitrary set of conditions for all critters to attack or not attack the player and the party. It happens all throughout the game: You are in the wasteland wearing power armor along with three party members also in power armor. Suddely you are attacked by cannibals or a couple of slavers in leather jackets. They don't run away. No, not all the creatures in the game always act rationally, but it's not something I plan on tackling anytime soon.

As for the dialog options that are too long, those have been fixed.

10) Busting down the back door of Golden Gecko gets permanent aggro of the bar flies and Sajo even though there were no witnesses to you breaking the door.

Maybe they hear you. Seems reasonable.

 

[alatari]

Re: Bug reports

1)Klint...

(Going to dump him for Sulik cause he's too buggy)

There are issues with Klint that I think are due to you not having all of the required proto files for him. His original author did make him too powerful in my opinion. Feel free not to use him, because he is a cheat in his current state until I change him. [I will address some of your specific questions after I've had a chance to look into a few of them.]

Was very careful to install from Interplay patch then MM 2.0, MW 2.1 then MM 2.11 in sequence. Haven't modified any files in this directory.

5)Getting encounters with bandits wearing Metal armor before reaching Klamath. Metal armor shouldn't show till after the Den (Too unbalancing to be wearing Metal armor and just reaching Klamath)

Again, until I change the code, something I have already mentioned in these threads a few times already, feel free to not take their armor if you feel it gives you an unfair advantage.

This thread is 89 pages long now and specific searches are defaulting me to the first page of the thread. Not sure why this sites searches aren't taking me deeper into the thread.

6) Slim buys gecko pelts but never runs out of gold. Only place where gold is mined is Redding. Everyone else has to scrape or steal for gold. Gold was supposed to be hard to get your hands on. This infinite gold supply is very unbalancing.

Never even looked at this. But you do have to give him something in return, right? How is that unbalancing? It is no different than killing the geckos and selling them elsewhere. Now, it would be bad if he gave you gold for nothing.

Even giving him the pelts this leads to an enormous amount of gold early in the game. It is supposed to be hard to find enough cash to free Sulik and afford your first leather armor and a good first weapon. No way a crappy trapper in a crappy town has financial resources equal to San Fransisco. It's a holocaust and old gold based economic systems are dead. Trade and barter are the replacement in the regions far away from towns or larger.

9.1)If you insult Emily she attacks even though it's obviously suicidal for her to do so. Rest of Trapper Town goes bezerk.

I know you are not suggesting that I rewrite Emily's combat code. No way. Then why not change every critter...all of them? That means coming up with some type of arbitrary set of conditions for all critters to attack or not attack the player and the party. It happens all throughout the game: You are in the wasteland wearing power armor along with three party members also in power armor. Suddenly you are attacked by cannibals or a couple of slavers in leather jackets. They don't run away. No, not all the creatures in the game always act rationally, but it's not something I plan on tackling anytime soon.

This is a dialogue character not a random encounter. She's a housewife with no combat skills. If you want her to slap the Player then put it in the dialogue as *Emily slaps you soundly across the face and refuses to talk to you ever again*. There are many cases you can insult people in the game but they don't attack you. From her dialogue she doesn't seem suicidal or insane.

10) Busting down the back door of Golden Gecko gets permanent aggro of the bar flies and Sajo even though there were no witnesses to you breaking the door.

Maybe they hear you. Seems reasonable.

I'm sure they do but my characters left the map without being seen by any of the bar NPC's but they magically knew to attack me when I came back on the map.

Many of the quests are very nice. The farmer Sam and the new reasons to enter the sewers under Klamath (although can't find a way to move the rocks so far). The side quests for Lucas and Huginnn(sp) Sly Fox and the conflict between Buckner and Dunton factions and never played a game including a plot to become a pimp before...

 

[IAR80]

Hey Alatari! What Interplay patch? You don't need to install any patch. The MIB Mod have it already.
And about the Thread Search you are right, I encounter the same problem too...
And about the money. For what you need money? I don't use such thing. I always in the end of the game have more than 999999...
Maybe that merchant sell the pelts to another merchant with far good price. And you don't have that many pelt anyway....

Edit: And what you prefer to carry 100 pelt which they have a lot of weight or money? Because the TeamX designed this for that purposes. Anyway whatever you carry a 100 pelts or the money which they worth, I choose the gold., because they don't weight nothing.

 

[MIB88]

Re: Bug reports

1)Klint...

(Going to dump him for Sulik cause he's too buggy)

There are issues with Klint that I think are due to you not having all of the required proto files for him. His original author did make him too powerful in my opinion. Feel free not to use him, because he is a cheat in his current state until I change him. [I will address some of your specific questions after I've had a chance to look into a few of them.]

Was very careful to install from Interplay patch then MM 2.0, MW 2.1 then MM 2.11 in sequence. Haven't modified any files in this directory.

...the sewers under Klamath (although can't find a way to move the rocks so far)....

IAR80 is right: you didn't have to install the official patch. However, if that was the first thing you applied to the game, then it doesn't affect anything.

My comment about Klint's proto files was not meant to be an accusation. I have forgotten to include files in the past. There was also that nasty bit about extracted files appearing to be read-only but weren't, and got promptly deleted. There were some messages a while back regarding Klint and some problems with him (especially in combat armor) that leads me to believe that there are some files missing that you need.

Finally, as for those rocks: they are no different than the other rocks you had to get rid of in the unmodded game. I'd bet you a thousand dollars that you are in the wrong spot.

 

[alatari]

Klamath.

Edit: And what you prefer to carry 100 pelt which they have a lot of weight or money? Because the TeamX designed this for that purposes. Anyway whatever you carry a 100 pelts or the money which they worth, I choose the gold., because they don't weight nothing.

Your supposed to be stuck with the pelts because there isn't enough gold amongst all the NPC's to sell them until you get to Redding or Vault City. Having enough money in Klamath to buy any thing you want is a cheat.

@MIB88, so there are some missing or messed up prot files for Klint? Wait till your next patch then?
As for the rocks, I'm in the Garage but haven't found any plastique or dynamite in Arrayo or Klamath or Toxic Caves. I'll keep looking.

11) Chest next to Hakunin won't open. The character aproaches it starts to make open animation then fails.

Not sure if these are bugs are my stupidity.

12) Hakunin quest: He says do not harm another living being till you take the potion on the night of your initiation. Closest quest to break 30 Karma before Aug 4th was the Shack. Can't kill the dog cause Hakunin says harm no creatures. Is there a peaceful way to cure the dog of it's madness?

12.1) 10 days total to get 30 Karma. 5 days to Klamath and back means that route not possible. Temple, rescue Smoke, head straight to the Shack after learning of it from Slik no resting or attempting healing then handle accusal when back in town... Getting Hakunin's quest complete is nasty hard. Is it supposed to be this tight a deadline?

13) In Vic's house there is a 'Master Trader' who won't talk to you. No dynamite in the house.

 

[IAR80]

Cheat for what? You only have 10mm Pistol and leather armor! And you can trade the pelt to the guns or armor. That option with the money for pelt it's only to not carry their weight and the price you gain for the pelt is lower than usual. Of course if you have high barter and speech skill then it's another story.
BTW. in unmoded game I always get everything I need for those merchant.
And let me tell you something. In this Mod the problem is for the ARMOR you can get for random NPC (I only hope MIB correct this sooner), because one time in the way to Vault City I encounter "Patrol Unit fighting with mercenaries" and I get Combat Armor! This is CHEAT...
Maybe you are right about the pelt, but I HAVE more problem with the armor because they have much more weight (and cost much more) and I get stuck with them.

Abut dynamite, you are sure? Look on the ground, not in shelves to the left on that "Master Trader" !!!

About the Quest you don't simply get it I will PM to you like usual.

 

[Snowguy]

I read earlier in the thread that bugs with grimshaw's children had been corrected in 2.0, yet I'm still experiancing issues. Is there something I can do?

 

[MIB88]

Having sex with/getting married to Grisham's kids is still messed up in versions 2.0 through 2.1.1. And no, I'm afraid there is no fix you can work on your end.

Klint is not going to act correctly if you don't have the following versions of these files in your data/proto/critter folder:

00000001.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000115.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000122.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000126.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000128.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000130.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000132.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000501.pro-March 8, 2007
00000502.pro-Oct 9, 2006
00000503.pro-Oct 9, 2006
00000504.pro-Oct 22, 2005

A couple of these might be duplicates on my part. Nevertheless, if you have all of them, Klint will work right.

I already know of the issue with Hakunin's chest. It has been corrected for the next release. (I forgot to put that on the list of corrections so far).

And you're right about Hakunin saying not to harm another living being, when in fact all he means is to have better karma. I will change his dialog to avoid any confusion.

As for the time crunch, well, it isn't supposed to be easy. But it is doable.

 

[IAR80]

My pro files for Klint are:

00000001.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000115.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000122.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000126.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000128.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000130.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000132.pro-Sep 26, 2005
00000501.pro- Oct 09, 2006 modified at 11:13
00000502.pro-Oct 9, 2006
00000503.pro-Oct 9, 2006
00000504.pro- Oct 21, 2005 modified at 23:48


So... 00000501.pro and 00000504.pro are different than yours, but Klint for me is not such a problem. There is a few problem, but I learn to avoid them and I suppose is OK, until the next release.

 

[alatari]

Cheat for what? You only have 10mm Pistol and leather armor! And you can trade the pelt to the guns or armor. That option with the money for pelt it's only to not carry their weight and the price you gain for the pelt is lower than usual.

In almost every normal game I've ever played my characters had 1 leather armor and no armor for Sulik as they went to the Toxic Caves. Surviving the Toxic caves was scary more about avoiding the Geckos than taking them all on. The Toxic caves were not meant to be solved the first run through. As for carrying the extra weight: the developers never intended a player be able to carry everything. From random encounters and every town you aren't supposed to be able to sell it all but be forced to make the choice to leave it behind. Life is hard in the wastelands....

In any game a developer has to control the game economy by limiting cash springs of endless gold and making sure there are cash sinks which constantly suck cash out of the game. Keeping players poor keeps them coming back to play.

As for the Hakunin quest. The dialogue made it seem more urgent you get to Klamath and the Shack was just a story. So if you follow the normal flow theres no way to accomplish the quest. Harkunin doesn't even make it seem urgent you get back quickly. Give the players 1 month to get back to Arroyo with 40 karma. I'm just frustrated and feel like I'm cheating restarting the game from the Temple for the third time and having to use Klint's healing instead of my first aid/ doctor skills avoiding every encounter going to a shack instead of Klamath just to complete Harkunin's quest.

Why is there a Master Trader squatting in Vic's house? It seems like an unfinished quest or a random NPC that should be deleted.

@MIB88: I recopied the patches and my file versions match yours exactly and will retest with Klint. made sure they ate read only. (I had dragged and dropped the folders from the archives instead of using 'extract' feature so the creation dates were lost )

If you're a male diplomat/tinker/scientist/doctor character with 8 AP or less letting the Black Scorpion see you is reload the game time.

14) Large cockroach spat at me. The environment graphic was like the Huge Stone in the Temple. Once picked up it had no graphic - just an invisible inventory item.

 

[MIB88]

As for the Hakunin quest. The dialogue made it seem more urgent you get to Klamath and the Shack was just a story. So if you follow the normal flow theres no way to accomplish the quest. Harkunin doesn't even make it seem urgent you get back quickly. Give the players 1 month to get back to Arroyo with 40 karma. I'm just frustrated and feel like I'm cheating restarting the game from the Temple for the third time and having to use Klint's healing instead of my first aid/ doctor skills avoiding every encounter going to a shack instead of Klamath just to complete Harkunin's quest.

Why is there a Master Trader squatting in Vic's house? It seems like an unfinished quest or a random NPC that should be deleted.

The issue with the master trader is already addressed in this thread. I also just mentioned him in the other thread.

I am not changing the timeline that TeamX implemented for getting your karma increased. Hakunin does make a case that you come back quickly, when coupled with the calendar outside his tent. He tells you to be back during the next full moon for purposes of the ritual. Now, in reality would it matter when the ritual is performed? No. But those wacky tribals, who knows what goes on in their heads? For all we know, there could be a reason why it is this particular full moon, and another opportunity for some reason won't be along for years.

Finally, you said you feel like you are cheating. Probably makes you feel bad, huh? Well, don't fight it, just accept it: you are cheating by starting over, having Klint in your party, and using Klint to heal you. It's ok, though. The other option is to become a warrior instead of Hakunin's apprentice.

Also, I have disabled the spit weapons. I have the graphics fixed (when they spit it now looks like a plasma gun burst, which looks like a green blob), but I've been having other issues.

 

[alatari]

I am not changing the timeline that TeamX implemented for getting your karma increased. Hakunin does make a case that you come back quickly, when coupled with the calendar outside his tent. He tells you to be back during the next full moon for purposes of the ritual. Now, in reality would it matter when the ritual is performed? No. But those wacky tribals, who knows what goes on in their heads? For all we know, there could be a reason why it is this particular full moon, and another opportunity for some reason won't be along for years.

Some suggestions which I'm willing to implement:
1. Forget changing anything but Slik's dialogue encouraging the player to visit the shack.
2. Or have Hakunin or the Elder or your Aunt encourage the player to get their fortune read by the crazy old man in the Shack.
3. Forget the main players giving the hint. Have Sly Fox Jordon be a fortune reading addict who knows of your rise to Chosen One cause of the Black Fortune readers warnings.
4. Move the Shack a day closer on the map.

Finally, you said you feel like you are cheating. Probably makes you feel bad, huh? Well, don't fight it, just accept it: you are cheating by starting over, having Klint in your party, and using Klint to heal you. It's ok, though. The other option is to become a warrior instead of Hakunin's apprentice.

Gotten to Klamath and gotten 30 Karma learning Pugilism from John Sullivan and made it back before full moon. Will try to get crop thief or Toxic caves done before getting back. Using the Doctor and First Aid skill used up a lot of time. So in the Walk-Through will recommend not using Doctor or First Aid unless they are 40% or higher.

After playing this mod's begining 4 times now, I don't see Klint as a cheat in his 50 HP form. It's very hard to survive without him playing a non-combat character and even as a combat character on the hardest settings.

1.10) Klint won't take no for an answer. If you tell him you can do things on your own it get's into an infinite loop where you have to accept himinto your party to break it.

Advertise the mod for only those players who wish to play warriors or female characters. Male thieves and diplomats will have trouble...

15) After being accused Cameron suggest checking with Slik, Lucas and Mynoc because of their attempts to run the Trial. Mynoc and Slik have no dialogue options added for the Accusal story arc.

16) It seems odd to expect a Tribal who has never seen explosives in her life not even in the Trial to understand you need to blow up the rock pile in Klamath. It doesn't flow from the storyline or the character's backround.

17) Talking with Torr before entering Buckners reveals he wants to work for Whiskey Bob and you say 'I know that guy' which would be a lie.. Great way to lose a couple points of karma.

18) Game crashes to desktop whenever 'Family of Scorpions' random encounter is drawn between Arroyo and Klamath. ( If it helps: the crash comes when you hover your mouse cursor over the small scorpion image while it faces east.)

This New Vision Mod has some compelling story lines and I feel it's important to continue developing it and make it as bug free as possible while making it playable by as many character styles as possible.

Looking for the stolen vegetables and kid who did the crime gives the first good RP excuse for searching house to house in Klamath I've seen. Whether your character will steal from people's homes or not should adjust Karma but that's a major undertaking. Maybe in FO3 they'll consider it.

 

[Misteryo]

Re: Bug reports

This thread is 89 pages long now and specific searches are defaulting me to the first page of the thread. Not sure why this sites searches aren't taking me deeper into the thread.

On the search page there is an option to display results as threads or posts. If you select posts, it will take you deeper into the thread.

Misteryo

 

[IAR80]

16) It seems odd to expect a Tribal who has never seen explosives in her life not even in the Trial to understand you need to blow up the rock pile in Klamath. It doesn't flow from the storyline or the character's background.

Alatari you forget something. Your character have intelligence and I bet it's over average, that's make you Einstein. I don't know if that have something to do with the fact you are a TRIBAL. With the intelligence 10 you are more than Einstein, so you don't need to learn things you just thinking...
Besides you have also skills. Steeling for people in our world is bad, but in Fallout is bad only if you are caught that's drop your karma!
You think this game is like our world, what is good here is good in Fallout, but it's not and you need to adapt. It's WASTELAND....

 

[alatari]

Intelligence

16) It seems odd to expect a Tribal who has never seen explosives in her life not even in the Trial to understand you need to blow up the rock pile in Klamath. It doesn't flow from the storyline or the character's background.

Alatari you forget something. Your character have intelligence and I bet it's over average, that's make you Einstein. I don't know if that have something to do with the fact you are a TRIBAL. With the intelligence 10 you are more than Einstein, so you don't need to learn things you just thinking...
Besides you have also skills. Steeling for people in our world is bad, but in Fallout is bad only if you are caught that's drop your karma!
You think this game is like our world, what is good here is good in Fallout, but it's not and you need to adapt. It's WASTELAND....

Intelligence has nothing to do with experience. You can have an IQ of 200 but if your culture knows nothing at all about explosives then a stick of dynamite will be a reddish sulfurish smelling candle that you might set fire for light and blow yourself up.
Even tribals have customs about taking items from another member of the communities tent. Punishments will include cutting off your hand if you are caught. When lawless abounds then the law of the spear/gun takes over. Stealing will have harsh penalties and most people (even evil) would think twice about stealing when there's someone with a gun nearby in a town you want to stay on good terms with.

I don't think you understand human cultures or how to Role Play at all...
It's good you're not writing these games.

 

[IAR80]

Yessss. And who teaches Einstein to make "relativity theory".
And then again you make the same confusion. This is NOT REAL LIFE, because in THIS RPG if I want to be a thief I do that, if I want to be Gigolo I do that, if I want to be drug addict I do that, and you stay home and play with the Dolls, because this is your opinion about Fallout.
Damn...
And because you said "I played this game numerous time", I will tell you something. If you play Fallout stupid (Int smallest than 4) you can't make some Quest a lot of them. So you can't make XP without Intelligence which contradict whith what you said.
I will not talk with you anymore.

 

[drepteck]

I know all the bugs havn't been kinked out. But when can we expect some kind of release or new patch? I'm just dying to start up F2 again and I've been waiting until the new version is out.

It's been a while since the last patch.

 

[MIB88]

It's been a while since the last patch.

A while? No, it's been a while since the game came out...6 months is nothing!

Truth is, I don't know. I have stopped giving estimated release dates because it never happens. Ever since I have added in the Alternative Life mod I have had a number of problems. So, I will only say that I hope to be finished with this next update (relatively) soon.

 

[Stlid]

I got a problem just exploded the TNT Klamath in that western Garage in Trapper Town and I have my charchter go down

heres a link

[/img]http://imageshack.us/index.php

If the link dosn't work I'll try my best to describer it
Oh and its like some one installed this mod with out installing all the other mods and entered the temple. Basicly where ever I move the mouse part of the cursor stays there.

 

[Slaughter Manslaught]

I had a strange issue with Klint. I don't know what those Golden Geckos did with him, but now, for some reason, he's acting like as if he got Knocked Out, but he's still standing and he follows me between each location, but after arriving don't move at all! I got to Klamath and he was still weird. How can I fix that?

EDIT: Klint just came back from his Gecko-induced Lamp-Post Zombie Coma. He came running. And healed me. Weird. Wonder how he followed me from the Toxic Caves to Klamath wile in a coma.