More realistic Weapon Statistics - a call 'to arms'

Dubby said:
Roflcore said:
I disagree too, the enemy AI is way too dumb to be a decent shooter anytime. More RPG-elements and combat would reduce this problem while the FPS-approach increases it.

Actually, it seems the ai in -THAT- regard atleast, can be tweaked and improved with fine tuning of the... many, many, MANY combat related game settings. F3C does increase an NPC's accuracy with firearms considerably (with a few exceptions of course).

That sounds like awful lot of work. I mean the AI right now rushes at you or runs away. Do you really believe you can change that to some sort of intelligent behaviour? like rushing with shortrange weapons/holding position, maintaining distance with long range weapons/cover/coverrun/group AI behaviour etc.?
 
Now I don't know if this works or not, haven't had time to test yet, but there's some sort of skeletal framework laying around in there that has to do with group-based (ai) tactical decision making.
 
Roflcore said:
That sounds like awful lot of work. I mean the AI right now rushes at you or runs away. Do you really believe you can change that to some sort of intelligent behaviour? like rushing with shortrange weapons/holding position, maintaining distance with long range weapons/cover/coverrun/group AI behaviour etc.?

Actually AI does that. I've seen it. They mainly take cover when they have like half hp left or less. I've noticed it on humans, the rest just charge at you.
 
Well I know they do, but really rare and its not helpful at all. they even reload without taking cover. half hp is also not a good choice, since they will flee when they have like 25% left. so taking cover rarely happens and if so it doesn't change the outcome of a battle at all
 
that's just the kind of thing - among others - that is designated by game settings. beth probably did this to make the QAfellers' time much less painful.
 
How about frag grenades acting like frag grenades?

Actually, I think about 95% of games out there don't do frag grenades right.

As we all know, frag = fragmentation. In FO3 you'll have an enemy standing right next to a grenade and not take any damage, because he isn't in the blast radius. This is true for almost all games, frag grenades somehow pack the punch to send enemies flying through the air and even limbless sometimes (FO3, BIA:Hell's highway) when what frag grenades really do is project high velocity fragments to inflict damage.

Oh well.
 
The crappy sniper rifle could use a serious fix. Just like all those unique models. The one carried by the guy in the chapel was probably the worst. Despite it’s higher crit rate I just used it’s parts to fix up my normal sniper rifle since the magazine capacity was so terribly low. Only 3 bullets.

Problem is that compared to the real thing like the AS50
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nig7yzIWKk8

They lack accuracy when your skill in small guns is maxed out and even the commando and sniper perks are taken.

In the previous Fallouts the sniper rifle was called DKS-501 I think. But It’s very similar to the AS50
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Image:308SNIPERRIFLE.png
http://www.crymod.com/uploads/mediapool/news150208_as50_1.jpg

Here’s a bit more info on it:
http://www.futurefirepower.com/the-british-accuracy-international-as50-bmg-sniper-rifle

If I knew how to modify the right files I would increase the accuracy, damage to around 120 and when it comes to the unique models I’d give one increased crit rating and the other a increased fairing rate.
 
Dubby said:
creating weapons is not hard - the only catch is (for now) they have to use the existing animations & models... and they can't be junk-weapons (yet). There are a few "hidden" animations for firing mechanisms that aren't used... such as a pump-action shotgun. Yes, it exists, I found it accidently a while ago. It's in the rifle subset somewhere. I do have a 'small' list of energy based weapons on the todo list, but I don't have much in the conventional weapons just due to the ammo restrictions.

Magneto Laser Pistol
....*Increased damage
....*Reduced spread [none]
Magneto Laser Rifle
....*Increased damage
....*Reduced spread [none]
Mining Laser
....*Fires continuous high-yield (blue) laser beam
....*Shorter range than other laser weapons
Enclave Plasma Battery
....*Fires many plasma 'bolts' in rapid - though innacurate - succession
Infared Laser Rifle
....*Beam is invisible to the naked eye, counts as an undetectable attack
....*Comes equipped with an (invisible due to lack of model) scope
....*Slightly less powerful than ordinary laser rifle
Phaser Pistol
....*Can disable robots (sometimes)
....*Causes 'pulse'-type damage [further experimentation needed on this damage type]
Heres some chinese weapons left over from the invasion I'd like to see. Most can also use the Chinese Assualt Rifle animations.

Rifles
Type-56 (Chinese AK-47)
Type 56C (Chinese AK-47SU)
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as49-e.htm

Type-63 (Chinese SKS with 20/30 round detachable Mag)
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as48-e.htm

Type-81
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as71-e.htm
All of the above can use the Chinese Assualt rifle animations.

SMGs
PPSh-41 (Chinese copies where used in Korea)
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg02-e.htm
Possibly use combat shotgun animation.

MGs
Type-81MGS (Chinese RPK)
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg15-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as71-e.htm
This can also use the standard AK animation with a 40 round mag.

As for futuristic weapons bring back all the old fallout weapons like the Turbo Plasma Rifle and Pulse weapons.

One final thing that annoys me is with the enclave their armour looks far more sleek and modern then everyone elses junk/cobbled together look yet they use the same weapons?? The Enclave should have their own Laser and Plasma weapons set that are more powerful then the BOS and look like they came out of a factory.
 
Now this game is based on 50's culture and in many ways retro-50s tech that has made it to more advanced stages like the laser pistol and gun.

Instead of a lot of models we see Assault Rifle and Chinese Assault Rifle.

I used the sniper rifle. Its ok, but no its not great, and yes I remember some really great sniper action when I played Hitman II. Yet in that game you also acquired worse snipers guns that would move and the best one didn't move from where you placed it.

Yes the game sniper stats probably have some penalty that is ellivated to a point using perks and your Small Gun skill, yet, it should have a low bullet count like 3 to 5 max and suck in close range when people run up too fast for you to change.

Yet, seeing the link for the AS50 all I can say is that is NOT what the game needs for the simple fact that this is a real gun of future tech that perhaps is too far so for the game's tech. I don't think in fallout world they'd have evolved a weapon like that. Fallout setting is limited really if you compare to many of the weapons and soon to be future weapons in development now.

I play Darwin's World and it is in part based on fallout game, as well as other things like Mad Max and Gamma World and that setting I could see an AS50 but then its based on our tech today and a 'nuke war' of 2011, though realistically I think such a war would better be more real if it was placed in 2111. In the next hundred years we really will have by the end of the century many or most if not all of the things we see in a game like Fallout or a game like Darwin's World. Domed cities, androids and droid/robots (which in Darwin's World are more advanced than the robots in Fallout), and a host of games from Masers to Atomic Particle weapons, Gauss and something called the Davy Crockett gun which is like the Fatman but it has a 2+ mile range so you shoot explosive mini nukes. It also has flying cars, etc. Its more like a tech level of a game like Deus Ex that then experiences a nuke war like Fallout.

Bottom line yes I would like better sniper run that if you do have a 75-100 small gun skill and the appropriate Commando, Sniper, etc. perks and possible Action Boy you can be pretty effective with the gun but closer than say 150 feet your accuracy goes way down fast. So its made for those long range attacks, and you have to set your character up to do it. Also it degrades fast so you need to repair it often thus keeping some balance in the game.

There simply are things not in this game that I would have liked but see why they aren't, like Night Vision, why not an infra-red goggles you can use and run around. They had it as Life Detection in Obliviion, and if they made it so you can't see through walls but you can see long range 'heat signatures' you could pinpoint where something warm-bodied is, other than synthetic things like robots which have no heat-signature.

I can live with the fact its not in the game. If you want a game that plays more like a 'real life' shooter game it perhaps is best to take a game like Counter Strike and then place over it the Wasteland setting, but in fact you'd get M16 assault rifles, frag grenades that work like they are suppose to, but only to a point.

The real military had a combat simulator made and in that simulator its made more like real combat so that grenades have a delay, and a smoke effect and flash, things like real frag grenades have, especially the delay but they found that real video game players (especially easily distracted, easily bored 10 year olds) don't have the patients or will to play in a 'real' setting like that, so they dumb it down for video game 'fun' play. Even FPS shooter games based on real world setting like the ones that look like Iraq have a level of 'reality' filtered out for more 'fun' game play purposes.

The point and bottom line is the game is a not a tactical training exercise, but a game to be played for fun, and no its not fun with that sniper rifle. I find it more effective to get into medium range and use my Chinese Assault Rifle. Perhaps though they should have made it so that if you achieve Small Gun 100, and have three perks associated with crits and gun use you'd have an effective sniping about but that would take you about 12 levels before it would be worth doing cuz if you sacrifice other choices you're character suffers (as you need other skills and specializing like that you'd find you can't open near as many locks, and other things you might need to do). Being a super-sniper is a benefit for later game play not a min/maxing dream of 5th level. So in that way I like how its designed right now.

More effective yes, real world tactical game, or one based on 'real tech' or tech that is in the real world pipeline now, no. Unless we are going to expand the scope of the game and essentially put out a game called Darwin's World, that would be fine but then the tech level in general is higher and includes all the things we'll see in the real world battlefield by 2025, things which the real world will start incorporating in the next decade (the fruit of decades of research).

------------------

I would like to see a Maser (infra-red heat gun, ie microwave gun), to melt holes in stuff.

I would like a Black Ray gun, which is from Gamma World, much like a particle disruptor beam. It basically an awesome gun against living creatures, but would have low ammo and range for balance yet, be a pistol and rock big time to use, and be something you find in the Enclave research lab, so its rare find in the game, and low ammo count in the game as a whole. Basically one or two shots would kill anything.
 
Hey guys. I am an experienced 3D modeler highly interested in the Gambryo engine. I fully agree that Fallout 3 needs a weapons expansion. I have been working with ceacar99 on a junk weapons mod and have some models already built. I also worked on several mods for Half Life 2. The Mods went under for one reason or another. so I have the following weapons fully modeled and just need them to be textured and implemented.

Pistols
-1911
-Browning HP
-Glock 19
-Double Barrel junk pistol

Rifles
-FN FNC
-Steyr AUG
-Pipe Rifle

These models were meant for various Half-life 2 models but are now wasting away on my HDD. I have samples of my work posted on ceacar99's junk weapons post.

ceacar99 has...
-Junk 40mm launcher
-some other stuff as well

Also. I would like to learn how to program/add new guns into Fallout 3. Does anyone know where to start on a subject like that. Without an SDK i'm up the creek.
 
compilationyl9.jpg


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This is an old image of one of my HL2 models. The Current 1911 is textured with photo realistic textures.
springfiled1911custombnf4.jpg
 
That's excellent, and it may be possible to mimic proper ballistic flight path behavior with a series of modifications to the PROJ file, though I doubt it would actually adjust the damage upon impact. Atleast, though, all guns wouldn't shoot in perfect straight lines.
 
Here are some of my thoughts about FO3 in general. I don't have any mods installed. I played mainly on normal so i don't get a lot of xp. I reached lvl 20 while i have explored 50% of the game world. I have maxed all my skills except barter and speech. Outside VATS i didn't noticed any difference even if my skill with weapons was 10 or 100. I'd like weapons to reflect your skill in a realistic way. So far i was able to make weapons woble around the screen until your skill was 50 or higher but I'd like something better. Critical hits should be based more on your skill than on luck.

Sniper rifle range and zoom is laughable. IMO it should be at least twice as that.
I'd prefer a scoped G3 tho.
Chinese weapons are way to many for a fallout setting imo.
big guns should have a strength check in order to equip them. Low strength chars would need power armor to wield a minigun.

good job on the weapons models chipk ;)
 
Willybean. I must say I do not agree with what most of the stuff you wrote. Sure the game is based on 50's culture but have you forgot that in 1983 the first Desert Eagle was produced and sold? It’s been there in Fallout 1 and 2 just like a bunch of other weapons like the old awesome HK rifle.

And I don’t know what’s the game you’ve played but the Sniper Rifle magazine capacity in Fallout 3 is 5 rounds. The same as the AS50. There are a lot of similarities in their construction too. Due to it’s rarity, limited ammunition that’s sometimes sold by merchants and model it should be the best small gun weapon available.

Or have you forgotten there is no Gauss gun for the small weapon users? I used to one shot some Enclave guys with that rifle.

It might be not fun to use for you but I just don’t care. It’s fun for me and Dubby asked for some info “to convey those statistics in the weapons provided in game”.

So here I was posting about real life sniper rifles and you stared whining about how “un fun it would be to actually have a very accurate sniper rifle capable of doing some great damage instead of just 40”.
 
Ravager said:
And I don’t know what’s the game you’ve played but the Sniper Rifle magazine capacity in Fallout 3 is 5 rounds.

Just wanted to say that another unique sniper rifle exists ingame. It has more damage than regular Sniper. You get it from a guy camped in a chapel....
 
I did mention it already. The damage of that Sniper Rifle is the same but it’s cit rating is increased… sadly at the cost of it’s magazine capacity… only 3 rounds so I just used it to fix up my standard sniper rifle. Reloading takes time and since it didn’t usually kill after the first shot especially when the target was far away it was pointless to use it. Not to mention that Reservist's Rifle has even less damage then Lincoln's Repeater… It really should have pretty much the same damage as the Alien Blaster but at the same time it should be a lot more accurate and have a longer range since it’s magazine capacity is low just like the firing rate. Let’s face it. You make a poor sniper in Fallout even with all the perks. An experienced sniper IRL with a good weapon will hit a target no matter if it’s moving or standing. One of my friends was capable of headshotting 5 running guys with a medium quality replica of a M-14 the distance was around 120 meters. During a ASG match that is. He’s no soldier and he’s kinda weak. So if he used a real M-14 he wouldn’t be able to shoot like that but imagine a real soldier with a modern semi automatic sniper rifle.
 
Supermutants, why the hell do they use weapons like "Hunting Rifles" and Assault Rifles?? They are twice the size of a normal human I doubt they could even pull the trigger with such big hands!! If they are intelligent enough to use ranged weapons we should see them
1) Rarely use weapons normally used in a mounts, eg minigun/HMGs/Grenade Launchers (when we have one) or
2) Using improvised weapons they have made themselves such as the below.

Supermutant Scrap Cannon
Similiar in concept to the stupid "Rockit Launcher" but more realistic as basically a hand held muzzle loading cannon that uses a gunpowder charge (or hell this is Fallout a grenade) to propel random bits of metal or rocks eg. Cutlery, Plates, cups, scrap metal like a giant shotgun.

Supermutant Pipe Musket
As above but an oversized musket that propels a single round large round. This would be highly inaccurate though.

Other more sophisticated weapons I can see them using are an automatic missile launcher (They are strong enough to lift it!!), a
14.5mm HMG (Yes I know its Russian but it was exported to China)
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg01-e.htm

Aircraft Rocket Pods looted from storage and converted to Handheld use.
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/275in-rockets.html
 
Back on the subject of Bullets.

Round Muzzle Velocity Muzzle Energy
5.56x45mm M193 964m/s 1,656J
5.56x45mm M855 940m/s 1,767J
7.62x51mm M80 840m/s 3,352J
.50 BMG M33 887m/s 16,569.5J
4.73x33mm 935.7m/s 1,389.7J (Caseless G11 Round)
7.62x39 M67 710m/s 2,010J

Note: Velocities and energies slightly differed from source to source & unfortunately I couldn't find them all from one source.
 
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