Mr. House vs. The Institute - who wins? spoilers

[ZigzagPX4]

I actually agree, Mr House isn't the best person but I think he would beat the Institute.

Only because he's well written and they're not.

Eh... that's not really fair. I suppose it's true we can't compare them as much as we would like to considering how vague Fallout 4 was with everything. But we can at least do a rough comparison.

And they were already making moves to take it from Mass Fusion, and nothing suggests the BoS would have beat them there had you not helped out. They were already on the way to fixing their biggest problem, and didn't even really need YOU to help them do it.

On the other hand, House is entirely without anything unless you help him because of consistent poor moves on his part.

Not to mention The Institute can make more super mutants to throw at House, on top of synths.

Well, unless we're going to consider the Institute an organisation with limitless resource and an endless arsenal, in which case they're just an overpowered, unbeatable Mary-Sueish version of Big MT, then we can't just assume the Institute could simply teleport ten squads of Gen 1 synths and six Coursers into the Lucky 38 and massacre the Securitrons there.

With sensible reasoning, the Institute's teleporter probably has limited range, not to mention a limited number it can send at a time. It's still a pretty large number, though. And there's nothing to say that the Institute can actually control the super mutants they create. Simply put, Mr House would not be able to mount an offensive on the Institute, but neither would the Institute be able to take him out. The Institute is at a point where no one can attack them unless they open up, but they're not gonna be able to take over the world unless they open up. That's why they have Kellogg, that's why they have you. A risk-free wildcard they can point at anything.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Hehehe.

Nah I just think that if you can defeat the Institute, if the Brotherhood and Minutemen can do it then he can too.

 

[Walpknut]

How would the institute use Super Mutants to their advantage? The dumbasses couldn't even prevent the ones they created from escaping their facility, let alone actually control them for their own use. Synths similarly are hilariously inneficient machines, they can only move in bipedal motion, they need to hold their plastic toy guns with their hands and their armor falls off even when hit with a board and they are designed with biological functions, they are more vanity projects than actual useful machines. The Securitrons can move much faster, their weapons are integrated into their bodies and have on board autorepair systems.
House's mistakes were understandable and the fact that he even got so close in his predictions of the war is actually pretty impressive. The Institute meanwhile have never accomplished anything of value, they spent decades creating stupid super mutants, their leadership seems both corrupt and incompetent with many entries in terminals showing that the directors love to deny development in more useful technologies, they have to steal power from the surface too. Also they can't even take the attack from Liberty Prime and a few soldiers, even with a full batalion of Synths. And you know who designed Liberty Prime? House. He also has enough resources and good will with regular folks to supplement his army of robots with some extra human power. On a House victory scenario he would even count with a Bomber plane.

 

[Someguy37]

Well, unless we're going to consider the Institute an organisation with limitless resource and an endless arsenal, in which case they're just an overpowered, unbeatable Mary-Sueish version of Big MT, then we can't just assume the Institute could simply teleport ten squads of Gen 1 synths and six Coursers into the Lucky 38 and massacre the Securitrons there.

With sensible reasoning, the Institute's teleporter probably has limited range, not to mention a limited number it can send at a time. It's still a pretty large number, though. And there's nothing to say that the Institute can actually control the super mutants they create. Simply put, Mr House would not be able to mount an offensive on the Institute, but neither would the Institute be able to take him out. The Institute is at a point where no one can attack them unless they open up, but they're not gonna be able to take over the world unless they open up. That's why they have Kellogg, that's why they have you. A risk-free wildcard they can point at anything.

I was assuming this was a "what if" scenario, where we just basically put both factions in a field, with the resources they are shown to have in-game, and then let them duke it out.

I don't think the teleporter would actually reach from Boston to Vegas.

snip

Once again, you manage to confuse me by talking about things that didn't happen as if they did. The super mutants didn't escape The Institute, the Institute let them out. Also, you don't need to control them, as super mutants attack everything by nature. You just have to let them out, and they will attack House's machines naturally.

And synths dont need to eat, sleep, and have the ability to think on par with humans, on top of strength and speed far greater then humans. making them far more deadly them the slow, dumb AI controlled Securitrons. And the Securitrons on-board repair systems are so slow that even light sustained fire negates it.

And no, House has zero good will with people. Everyone hates House, no one in Freeside, North Vegas, or Westside like House, and all complain that they hate him for making them live in shitty condition while the Three Families get pampered. And even the Three Families hate house, to the point the Omertas were even going to attack the Strip and try to take it over because they didn't like House. House has no good will with anyone, the game constantly hammers that in your head.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Well, unless we're going to consider the Institute an organisation with limitless resource and an endless arsenal, in which case they're just an overpowered, unbeatable Mary-Sueish version of Big MT, then we can't just assume the Institute could simply teleport ten squads of Gen 1 synths and six Coursers into the Lucky 38 and massacre the Securitrons there.

With sensible reasoning, the Institute's teleporter probably has limited range, not to mention a limited number it can send at a time. It's still a pretty large number, though. And there's nothing to say that the Institute can actually control the super mutants they create. Simply put, Mr House would not be able to mount an offensive on the Institute, but neither would the Institute be able to take him out. The Institute is at a point where no one can attack them unless they open up, but they're not gonna be able to take over the world unless they open up. That's why they have Kellogg, that's why they have you. A risk-free wildcard they can point at anything.

I was assuming this was a "what if" scenario, where we just basically put both factions in a field, with the resources they are shown to have in-game, and then let them duke it out.

I don't think the teleporter would actually reach from Boston to Vegas.

In which case, "who wins" is just a rough gamble. Cannon fodder versus top heavies can probably duke it to a standstill. Synths may have numbers, but they don't have heavy armaments, like missiles. Securitrons are limited, yet durable. Assuming the families of Vegas are also in the fight, they would suppress the Coursers with their numbers, which is pretty large in comparison to the number of Coursers. In the end, it all just comes down to chance, at that point.

 

[Someguy37]

In which case, "who wins" is just a rough gamble. Cannon fodder versus top heavies can probably duke it to a standstill. Synths may have numbers, but they don't have heavy armaments, like missiles. Securitrons are limited, yet durable. Assuming the families of Vegas are also in the fight, they would suppress the Coursers with their numbers, which is pretty large in comparison to the number of Coursers. In the end, it all just comes down to chance, at that point.

Its always a gamble with these argument because we never get the chance to see how the factions fare on their own, because every faction wins in these games because the super special snowflake, Mary Sue, player characters help them win.

Really, the argument comes down too, which PC can beat which PC?

 

[Walpknut]

snip

Once again, you manage to confuse me by talking about things that didn't happen as if they did. The super mutants didn't escape The Institute, the Institute let them out. Also, you don't need to control them, as super mutants attack everything by nature. You just have to let them out, and they will attack House's machines naturally.

And synths dont need to eat, sleep, and have the ability to think on par with humans, on top of strength and speed far greater then humans. making them far more deadly them the slow, dumb AI controlled Securitrons. And the Securitrons on-board repair systems are so slow that even light sustained fire negates it.

And no, House has zero good will with people. Everyone hates House, no one in Freeside, North Vegas, or Westside like House, and all complain that they hate him for making them live in shitty condition while the Three Families get pampered. And even the Three Families hate house, to the point the Omertas were even going to attack the Strip and try to take it over because they didn't like House. House has no good will with anyone, the game constantly hammers that in your head.

It's funny bcause it's you who made the argument that they escaped. Also, the FEV research laboratory is pretty much trashed, so they obviously revolted and the Institute couldn't even control them.

Dumb Ai Controlled Securitrons? I don't know how the Synths can even fare better consdiering they will sometimes stop attacking you out of nowhere and


No one likes House? but they will probably like his money, people know that he will pay them fair and square (in a House victory the hero of the Mojave is probably rolling in caps in his suite in the casino for his good service). House doesn't have a fame of kidnapping people, staling their power or destroying their settlements. He got a bunch of violent tribals to dress up and work for him with the right incentives, doubt it will take much to get some good mercenaries to work for him. Also, House piotentially has actual intelligent Super Mutants he can hire if his Courier helped Jacobstown and solved Black Mountain's situation peacefully. Meanwhile the Institute would need to waste time and effort kidnapping and dipping people into FEV to get a bunch of uncontrollable and unintelligent Super Mutants who would mostly be armed with Pipe guns and boards that would turn on them first, just like what happened in the FEV lab. The FEV lab they closed down because experiments on FEV were discontinued, so bringing up the Super Mutants is kind of nonsensical. In that Case House could jsut create more Securitrons after seizing the Dam and refurbrishing one of his Factories. Also, the Securitrons aren't limited, the Securitron Vault is literary a construction plant for them, as the hydraulic noises obviously tell. 10 years after New Vegas, with full control of the Dam, trading relationships with the NCR, a Working Securitron Vault, potentially more Securitron Vaults being built by refurbrishing the factories all around New Vegas, the potential technologies the Courier can bring from the Big MT and House's lack of wasting his time on bipedal robots for 100 years I'll say House more than stands a chance.

 

[Someguy37]

snip

Uhh no. I said Virgil escaped, and Virgil is the one who trashed the FEV labs.

You mean like how you stopped that sentence in the middle? I've also never had synths stop attacking me for any reason. Even after blowing off their legs those guys are still firing.

-The money argument flies in the face of New Vegas, where, even AFTER giving the three families access to basically all the money they could ever want via their casinos, all of them still betrayed him. The common person isn't going to die for House, no matter how much he gives them. You might get some NCR mercs, but that's not a big force.
-If you really think Marcus and the super mutants of Jacobstown are going to fight for House, you have entirely missed everything they said they founded Jacobstown for in NV.
-Again, it was Virgil who wrecked the FEV labs, not any other super mutants. and super mutants are armed with plenty of laser weaponry, light machine guns, and even miniguns.
-They only discontinued the FEV experiments because Virgil went crazy and trashed the labs, not because they actually wanted to stop the experiment. I know you don't pay attention to anything anyone says in any of these games, as evidenced by your comments about both NV and Fo4, but please do at least use the wiki or something.
-What factories? The only factory left standing in the Vegas area is his old half-brothers tool factory. Were is he getting these factories from? his ass? Now you are literally going so far as to invent non existent locations.
-The idea that the securitron vault is a factory for them is 100% speculation. For all we know those noises are the motors for the massive lifts that would be needed to get them out of these since they wouldn't be able to climb the stairs due to their wheels.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

In which case, "who wins" is just a rough gamble. Cannon fodder versus top heavies can probably duke it to a standstill. Synths may have numbers, but they don't have heavy armaments, like missiles. Securitrons are limited, yet durable. Assuming the families of Vegas are also in the fight, they would suppress the Coursers with their numbers, which is pretty large in comparison to the number of Coursers. In the end, it all just comes down to chance, at that point.

Its always a gamble with these argument because we never get the chance to see how the factions fare on their own, because every faction wins in these games because the super special snowflake, Mary Sue, player characters help them win.

Really, the argument comes down too, which PC can beat which PC?

That's an interesting tidbit, considering Fallout 4. There's one part in the Institute quest line where you make an announcement about the Institute's existence to the Commonwealth. However, if you go any other path, they make it either way, with a different speechmaker. In addition, their reactor becomes perfectly functional even if you decide to betray them and take The Nuclear Option before you get them the Beryllium Agitator.

Then you consider how the Legion in New Vegas pretty much prepares the same way whether you help them or not. So I sort of think that our player character more or less *influences* wars, but can't actually make a definite outcome for it. Fallout 1, 2, and 3 all had you in pursuit of a MacGuffin up until you realise you have to take down a large organisation with nefarious intent. The linear plot (the game's more or less open) makes it much easier to actually show choice and consequence. With wars, it would be tedious work to have you choosing how every faction ends up. Which annoys me with how you're basically the leader of everything, yet your choices mean nothing. It's because it's hard when there are multiple cards at play.

New Vegas is as close to a definite outcome as we could get, and even it was still pretty vague about how New Vegas runs after. One day, I hope we'll get a Fallout that actually involves multiple factions, have ending slides AND a significantly different world post-ending. But that's not coming any time soon.

 

[Someguy37]

That's an interesting tidbit, considering Fallout 4. There's one part in the Institute quest line where you make an announcement about the Institute's existence to the Commonwealth. However, if you go any other path, they make it either way, with a different speechmaker. In addition, their reactor becomes perfectly functional even if you decide to betray them and take The Nuclear Option before you get them the Beryllium Agitator.

Then you consider how the Legion in New Vegas pretty much prepares the same way whether you help them or not. So I sort of think that our player character more or less *influences* wars, but can't actually make a definite outcome for it. Fallout 1, 2, and 3 all had you in pursuit of a MacGuffin up until you realise you have to take down a large organisation with nefarious intent. The linear plot (the game's more or less open) makes it much easier to actually show choice and consequence. With wars, it would be tedious work to have you choosing how every faction ends up. Which annoys me with how you're basically the leader of everything, yet your choices mean nothing. It's because it's hard when there are multiple cards at play.

New Vegas is as close to a definite outcome as we could get, and even it was still pretty vague about how New Vegas runs after. One day, I hope we'll get a Fallout that actually involves multiple factions, have ending slides AND a significantly different world post-ending. But that's not coming any time soon.

But if we look in the case of House in NV, he has zero chance of winning without you, due to not having anyone to take back the chip, or activate the securitrons.

And in Fallout 4, the Railroad doesn't manage to do anything, unless you actually help them. Same with The Mintuemen, who don't just gain a large force if you skip all their quests and side with the BoS.

The only thing the Legion does in NV if you help the NCR is stuff it was doing before you came along. They dont manage to destroy the BoS, recruit the Boomers, cure House's tumor, etc. etc. without you. The Same is true on the NCR side if you side with the Legion. They don't get any of the help they get if you side with them.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Also, you don't need to control them, as super mutants attack everything by nature. You just have to let them out, and they will attack House's machines naturally.

Like how releasing poison gas is always a good idea regardless of prevailing winds. After all, it will kill the enemy by nature!

 

[ZigzagPX4]

That's an interesting tidbit, considering Fallout 4. There's one part in the Institute quest line where you make an announcement about the Institute's existence to the Commonwealth. However, if you go any other path, they make it either way, with a different speechmaker. In addition, their reactor becomes perfectly functional even if you decide to betray them and take The Nuclear Option before you get them the Beryllium Agitator.

Then you consider how the Legion in New Vegas pretty much prepares the same way whether you help them or not. So I sort of think that our player character more or less *influences* wars, but can't actually make a definite outcome for it. Fallout 1, 2, and 3 all had you in pursuit of a MacGuffin up until you realise you have to take down a large organisation with nefarious intent. The linear plot (the game's more or less open) makes it much easier to actually show choice and consequence. With wars, it would be tedious work to have you choosing how every faction ends up. Which annoys me with how you're basically the leader of everything, yet your choices mean nothing. It's because it's hard when there are multiple cards at play.

New Vegas is as close to a definite outcome as we could get, and even it was still pretty vague about how New Vegas runs after. One day, I hope we'll get a Fallout that actually involves multiple factions, have ending slides AND a significantly different world post-ending. But that's not coming any time soon.

But if we look in the case of House in NV, he has zero chance of winning without you, due to not having anyone to take back the chip, or activate the securitrons.

And in Fallout 4, the Railroad doesn't manage to do anything, unless you actually help them. Same with The Mintuemen, who don't just gain a large force if you skip all their quests and side with the BoS.

The only thing the Legion does in NV if you help the NCR is stuff it was doing before you came along. They dont manage to destroy the BoS, recruit the Boomers, cure House's tumor, etc. etc. without you. The Same is true on the NCR side if you side with the Legion. They don't get any of the help they get if you side with them.

Well, that makes the Institute the one sole competent faction in the entire wasteland, then.

Not likely.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I actually agree, Mr House isn't the best person but I think he would beat the Institute.

Only because he's well written and they're not.

So really the argument comes down to "I think he would win because Obsidian wrote him, and not because of any actual sort of advantage of tactics, resources, manpower, technology, etc. etc.!"

Also
>House
>well written
>100% cliche Howard Hughes stereotype that every movie/book/tv show having a Howard Hughes stereotype has used
>well written

I guess if you consider going ctrl+c, then ctrl+v, good writing... sure.

What do you mean? How frequent is this Howard Huges stereotype in your opinion? At least it's not that common in gaming. Howard Huges is definetly not the most common character out there, due to it's complexity. I havn't seen all movies nor have I played all games, but I would be surprised if that is really a very common trope.

Besides, even if I am not a fan of House - I always disable him most of the time, he is still one of the best written characters in Fallout. And he achieved more compared to the Institute. Enough to make the region interesting for the NCR and the Legion.

 

[Someguy37]

Like how releasing poison gas is always a good idea regardless of prevailing winds. After all, it will kill the enemy by nature!

Depends if you inoculated against the poison like the enclave was with their FEV, also depends if you in an underground facility where the gas can't get you.

Well, that makes the Institute the one sole competent faction in the entire wasteland, then.

Not likely.

Not by any measure.
-Caesar was able to form The Legion, and take the fight to the NCR, by himself. New Vegas even heavily suggests that The Legion was likely to win the Dam, had The Courier not intervened.
-While it was the Vault Dweller and Chosen One who gave the NCR the ability to expand as far as they did in the early days, they still had to be smart enough to see the opportunities, and take them. Not to mention all the expansion they did after those two were gone.
-The LW may have helped out the Lyons BoS, but it was largely Maxson himself that was able to take the ailing faction, and build it into a large power able to take over the east coast.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

And the institute, a super secret organization that has some of the brightest minds since the great war, that has access to advanced technology, surpassing that of even the most well known technology dedicated organizations is not cliché?
Think I recall something similar, E.... En.... lave something.

 

[Someguy37]

And the institute, a super secret organization that has some of the brightest minds since the great war, that has access to advanced technology, surpassing that of even the most well known technology dedicated organizations is not cliché?

OFC it is.

Its Fallout, its built on nothing but dumb cliches.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

And the institute, a super secret organization that has some of the brightest minds since the great war, that has access to advanced technology, surpassing that of even the most well known technology dedicated organizations is not cliché?

OFC it is.

Its Fallout, its built on nothing but dumb cliches.

Literally every piece of fiction in the world builds on clichés one way or another. How well they build on those clichés is the whole point. You either handle it with subtlety and nuance, or you hit it with a sledgehammer. Bethesda attempts to do both within the same microsecond, and that's where their games fall apart by quite a bit.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Ah so the "Fallout New Vegas has unacceptable 'cliches' but Fallout 4 gets a pass because Fallout is built around stupid cliches" excuse?

 

[Walpknut]

Guys, you are making the mistake of thinking that Someguy37 even cares about having consistency on his logic strings. The guy will switch arguments on the same sentence.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Like how releasing poison gas is always a good idea regardless of prevailing winds. After all, it will kill the enemy by nature!

Depends if you inoculated against the poison like the enclave was with their FEV, also depends if you in an underground facility where the gas can't get you.

But the Synths- the actual army of the Institute- will also be attacked by the Mutants, who aren't that powerful to begin with.