And still, it took only one, single individual to just decimate them at Hoover Dam
NCR vs Legion Opinion
- Thread starter mandala
- Start date
And still, it took only one, single individual to just decimate them at Hoover Dam
TomJ
Still Mildly Glowing
There is also a difference between fighting the NCR on the fringe and fighting them on the homefront. The NCR troopers wouldn't care much about Vegas because it's not seen as part of the nation yet. Why care about something that isn't important or part of your identity? The Legion will lose in the long run because of the cult of personality around Caesar. Even if he appointed someone more stable to lead the Legion, they still wouldn't be Caesar and people would always question the successor. Look at it from any political context, the first generation is always unquestionable, but subsequent generations screw up the original vision. Since the Legion is reactionary conservative, they'd likely war over differences of opinion as the number of leaders after Caesar died. The difference between Rome and the Legion is this, Rome was well developed when the historical Caesar took power. That means there was a system in place to take over when the leader died. The entire infrastructure of the Legion was built by Caesar for Caesar. His force of will is keeping it going and since he won't tolerate a leader like him rising up, the Legion will die with him.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Ignore NCR soldiers and other forms of help.And still, it took only one, single individual to just decimate them at Hoover Dam
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
The Legion was very much against industrialisation due to their ideology, though, assuming I remember correctly, Caesar says they'll industrialise when they have the ability to do so from scratch, unlike the NCR which just repurposed devastated factories.
I think the Legion vs NCR stalemate is only because NCR stretched their forces thin and only have a tiny ammount of troops (in relation to their total armed forces) in the Mojave.
In FNV NCR people keep complaining that they are not getting reinforcements or supplies because apparently the NCR forces are spread all around the NCR territory (because they are reinforcing some new territories they conquered or annexed or something) and other people comment how thin their forces are stretched and the reason was because they expanded too fast...
If this stalemate continues for a while and NCR stops needing to keep most of their armed forces on the new annexed territories, then the logical thing would be to send an overwhelming number of troops to end the stalemate once and for all. If just a "few" (compared to the entirety of NCR forces) soldiers from NCR are able to block the Legion advance for this long, I don't think that the Legion could cope with 10 or 20x more soldiers (and probably battle hard and experienced soldiers, and not these fresh recruits that are in the Mojave now) and equipment arriving all of a sudden to reinforce the Mojave.
In my view if the Legion doesn't manage to totally smash the NCR in the Mojave fast, it will not have a chance later.
In FNV NCR people keep complaining that they are not getting reinforcements or supplies because apparently the NCR forces are spread all around the NCR territory (because they are reinforcing some new territories they conquered or annexed or something) and other people comment how thin their forces are stretched and the reason was because they expanded too fast...
If this stalemate continues for a while and NCR stops needing to keep most of their armed forces on the new annexed territories, then the logical thing would be to send an overwhelming number of troops to end the stalemate once and for all. If just a "few" (compared to the entirety of NCR forces) soldiers from NCR are able to block the Legion advance for this long, I don't think that the Legion could cope with 10 or 20x more soldiers (and probably battle hard and experienced soldiers, and not these fresh recruits that are in the Mojave now) and equipment arriving all of a sudden to reinforce the Mojave.
In my view if the Legion doesn't manage to totally smash the NCR in the Mojave fast, it will not have a chance later.
Well, if that's the case, I really don't see how the Legion can compete with the NCR in the long term. When your enemy can manufacture firearms and ammunition on a massive scale and you can't, it's hard not to get outpaced.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
Yeah, probably came about because they didn't develop the Legion as much as they should have. If there was a single line about them plundering a massive armory, or trading with the Midwestern BoS or something then it wouldn't have mattered, but as it stands they only use shitty, easily repairable weapons like AKs and machetes and, in a realistic scenario, they'd be dwarfed by the NCR.
I can see what they were going for though; a similar sort of conflict happens in the BoS-NCR war, the Brotherhood fortify Helios and keep the NCR out with their superior weaponry, but the NCR just keeps coming and coming and eventually the BoS collapse under that weight. In a way, New Vegas is just that conflict on a larger scale.
SpecialHands
First time out of the vault
NCR were stretched, low on resources/supplies and hampered by bad leadership. Legion outnumbered them, had good leadership and used Guerrilla tactics .
Guerrilla tactics lost the Americans Vietnam, it caused no end of issues for the British and Americans in the Middle East. Legion were by no means as capable as NCR as an army, but they weren't fighting an army, they were fighting an expeditionary force in new territory.
Throatpunch
Banned
I agree
SpecialHands
First time out of the vault
Maybe, but that would depend on how many troops the NCR committed and how many other parties sided with the,
Brivoo
Powered by Radiant AI
Personally, I'm partial to the view presented in the video; that is to say, the Legion may win New Vegas, but they won't be able to conquer the entire NCR in the long run.
However, I don't think that necessarily spells the end of it. Assuming the best possible outcome (i.e. the Boomers on their side, Caesar survives the tumor and their enemies eliminated) Caesar would now be in control of his new Rome and would likely implement the societal changes he intended to once he held a major city in his territory. House's technologies would be in his grasp and although he wouldn't be able to unlock the MK II upgrade, he'd still have an army of securitrons on his side he'd be an idiot not to utilize, as well as several non-combative technologies such as the irrigation and power systems.
It still wouldn't be enough to conquer the NCR, but it would help and perhaps even definitely establish the Legion as a stable nation; assuming Caesar picked his own successor before his death and did so wisely, Lanius would cease being a problem entirely.
However, I don't think that necessarily spells the end of it. Assuming the best possible outcome (i.e. the Boomers on their side, Caesar survives the tumor and their enemies eliminated) Caesar would now be in control of his new Rome and would likely implement the societal changes he intended to once he held a major city in his territory. House's technologies would be in his grasp and although he wouldn't be able to unlock the MK II upgrade, he'd still have an army of securitrons on his side he'd be an idiot not to utilize, as well as several non-combative technologies such as the irrigation and power systems.
It still wouldn't be enough to conquer the NCR, but it would help and perhaps even definitely establish the Legion as a stable nation; assuming Caesar picked his own successor before his death and did so wisely, Lanius would cease being a problem entirely.
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
Still doesn't explain why the NCR doesn't grab a Vertibird and firebomb their camp from above, or snipes their conspicuously dressed generals. I feel the narrative had to downplay NCR's capabilities a lot to make the Legion a match.
Technological advantage is not just machetes vs guns (which is already a massive advantage when you're not in a video game universe where being shot with 5.56mm does less damage than spiked knuckles for balance reasons). It's communicating with radios vs, I don't know, banners and smoke signals? Which is magnitude less efficient and makes coordination much harder. It's no air power of any kind vs Vertibirds. It's medical technology vs healing powder. It's a massive advantage in material output due to industry. It's a much, much more advanced economy that doesn't rely on inefficient slave labor.
I mean, obviously the Legion has elite troops with guns and the NCR rank and file aren't exactly Navy Seals tier. But history has shown, repeatedly, what happens when armies with lots of guns do to armies with many less guns. Guns win. Especially aganst massed charges.
CerberusGate
I should save my game in a whole new slot
I'm with the NCR being stronger than the Legion but only due to it being around longer so it has a more solid foundation. The Legion is a relatively young nation formed through subjugating scores of tribes into it. One of Caesar's reasons for seeking to conquer New Vegas is to set the stones for the Legion to become a true empire so it gives me the impression that the Legion is not entirely stable as a political force despite its relatively stable infrastructure. The NCR have corrupt elements in it like any long-lived political system but its people are used to dealing with them so it won't fall apart as fast even if they lose New Vegas.
I agree. The current NCR is overtaxed by their rapid expansionism as many in-game NPCs attest to. I suspect the Legion may suffer the same fate if they try to go after NCR territories. Essentially, the two factions will be locked in a stalemate (unless the Legion falls apart due to the teachings of Edward Sallow(Caesar) being forgotten and corrupted through misinterpretation along with Sallow's death).
Dr Fallout
Centurion
The Legion would do well only if they can solve the succession crisis. As we can see, the Legion is very self sufficient and aims to create it's own industry and tech rather then scavenging from the past (though they still do that well). Basically the Legion wants to be self reliant and produce everything it needs for themselves.
TomJ
Still Mildly Glowing
I agree with this. The Legion can't win a war of attrition against the NCR. Once the NCR sorts things out in Southern California and Baja, it'll be able to send more troops in than the Legion could ever muster. The Southwest isn't populated to begin with, so why would it be after the bombs fell relative to LA and surrounding areas?
The Legion already rules at least one major city, Phoenix. It is larger than our Vegas, so it is likely larger than Fallout Vegas. Also, the Legion may have Albuquerque which is also a large city. The Southwest isn't very populated, but there are two mid sized metros.
As far as why Vegas would be his Rome rather than Phoenix or Albuquerque idk really. My guess is that it's glitzy and Caesar wants glitz and Vegas is that more than the other two cities in the Southwest.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Phoenix and Albuquerque are probably made up of tents and shacks, maybe ruined houses as well. Vegas has massive well off buildings and strong walls making it a perfect place to create a new Rome.
TomJ
Still Mildly Glowing
Albuquerque is far larger than Vegas. It would have more places to fortify than Vegas. Other than Vegas being glitzier than Albuquerque, it could be Caesar flapping his dong at the NCR so to speak, putting his capital right on the border. Or, since Abq is larger, it could be like DC and large portions of it are inaccessible due to collapsed buildings. Which would make things other than the airport unusable.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Yeah but New Vegas is more well built. Also large sizes make defense harder as there is more to cover.