New developer diary at Bethesda
- Thread starter Per
- Start date
zioburosky13
Vault Senior Citizen
Interplay went down hill due to several crappy console game including the ill-fated Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel (or Piece of shit) than pissed off every hardcore fallout fan and console kid with its crappy design and gameplay.
When they realized their fault, Van-Buren was started but never had the chance to finish and the rest is history.
When they realized their fault, Van-Buren was started but never had the chance to finish and the rest is history.
Sorrow
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Which tech are you talking about?ArmorB said:
Who is accusing Bethsoft for wanting to make money? They can make money if they want, but they picked up a wrong franchise for that purpose.GandalfRed said:
Err, no. Creating Fallout for hardcore gamers saved Interplay for some time - it was important enough to start Fallout 2 very soon and the failure of FoT and FoPoS was purely because by bad design ideas (both) and bugs (FoT).GandalfRed said:
I bought FoT and returned it to store two days later, because the game was unstable to the point it wasn't playable - I'm not very fond of replaying a single mission several times just because the game has tendency to exit to windows.
As for FoPoS - making another action game for a crowded market wan't very smart idea.
Sorrow said:
Power Armor, Tesla Armor, Plasma based weps, Laser based weps, Vertibirds, super computers, cars that run on nuke cells, stim packs and the various other post apoc drugs...
My point is that unless every one of those things was 100% developed BEFORE the big war then there is plenty of room for new stuff to be developed from the time of FO2 and FO3...
ArmorB said:
Everything that was in Fo1 can safely be assumed to have been developed before the war. In Fo2 there are references to research and development - notably among the Shi, who are considered un-Fallouty by some - and a few items like Hardened Power Armor and Jet Antidote appear in Fo2 as a result of this. They're not exactly new techs or new industries, though. Then there are some advances of dubious canon status, like the Shi fertilizing the wasteland, which were revoked in the Fallout Bible, which itself is not the final word on anything any more...
Per said:
So then it's safely assumed that hundreds upon hundreds of suits of power armor and plasma/laser based weapons were readily available at the time of the great war? I find that very hard to beleive.
But assuming that is true then it would further support the potential for that sort of development to have been exceeded in the several hundred years after the war in some area that was left less effected by the war.
Side note, how far off shore is the Enclave base? Miles? Hundreds of miles? So Navarro was a refuling station, but if the vertibirds could fly hundreds of miles then it'd be easy to assume that way points could have easily been set up to be able to travel across the nation.
Hundreds of years, a shit load of tech, computers, power sources, etc.. just lying about, plus the potential to at a minimum to upgrade if not create new developments and you all say that nothing can possibly change or improve?
ArmorB said:
Harder to believe than the idea of offscreen factories churning out new ones? They had a whole army outfitted with them. It's much easier to keep existing equipment in shape than manufacturing new stuff.
Less effected? As in, crops didn't fail, livestock didn't die, infrastructure didn't collapse? There is no precedent whatsoever for this. Even the Enclave, which existed continuously since before the war, never set up anything like an industrial complex.
All I'm saying is that is is possible that some places didn't get obliterated. Some abiltiy to produce new stuff survived. Some people didn't give up and hide in a hole.
Just because California went to hell doesn't mean that every square inch of the united states was completely obliterated.
Just because you've never seen anyone from Greenland and haven't been to Greenland doesn't mean that Greenland isn't there.
The entire Fallout universe is about unlikely stuff that DID happen, so why is it so hard to believe that unlikely stuff kept on happening outside the radar of California?
Like Canada. Who the hell would waste nukes on Canada? There would be plenty of opprtunity up there for all sorts of stuff.
All I'm saying is that there is the potential for ANYTHING to happen. But plenty of you guys want to refuse that the world would keep spinning or that it is even round for that matter...
Just because California went to hell doesn't mean that every square inch of the united states was completely obliterated.
Just because you've never seen anyone from Greenland and haven't been to Greenland doesn't mean that Greenland isn't there.
The entire Fallout universe is about unlikely stuff that DID happen, so why is it so hard to believe that unlikely stuff kept on happening outside the radar of California?
Like Canada. Who the hell would waste nukes on Canada? There would be plenty of opprtunity up there for all sorts of stuff.
All I'm saying is that there is the potential for ANYTHING to happen. But plenty of you guys want to refuse that the world would keep spinning or that it is even round for that matter...
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
GandalfRed said:
Again not true at all.
I think that when out walking GandalfRed stumbled on a discarded barrel of anti-truth and thought it'd be a shame not to put it to use.
GandalfRed
First time out of the vault
^^Black said:
FOPOS was a life vest Int hoped to earn some money on console market. Although it was not the final nail, it made a big chunk of losses that pulled Interplay under. With all due respect to all the years Per and the rest of you are here - financial statements tell a clear picture, when Int problems started, and which games (FO2, FOT, Descent2 and Freespace2,FOPOS) broke their financial back. The truth is that as the original developers were not successful (even though 3 of the mentioned games were great - hint not FOT and FOPOS)) and Int commercial people skilled enough = the company went down, and sold only thing (I hoped they would sell Freespace also just to get FS3) that had any value.
That Beth hates FO core audience is clear enough - and their only goal is to make money, weather we like the game or not, their business analysts estimated that new buyers will bring them enough. Only 2 things can happen, Beth will strike gold and earn money on FO3 and then make 2-3 sucky sequels, or loose money and bury FO franchise for good. Who here thinks Interplay can pull off the MMORPG? And if they do, buy back the franchise? Anyone....?
Sad thing is that gamers market has evolved in a bad direction with consoles and ADD, and actually if FO3 pleased hard core it would not sell in sufficient numbers to earn back 3mil + development costs (2-3 years of not so small salaries, electricity, heating, computers... )
My guess that FO would be in better hands were it sold to smaller developer, with smaller development costs. Big developers like Beth are only interested in money, and the drivel they spew every day (we are the fans, we live and breathe FO1, look how our vault is the recreation of the original....) is only a tool in earning money. There is 0 (and to repeat ZERO) wish to honor FO canon when it would bring less money, and minimal if it can bring some. Were it not for the analysis that name Fallout would bring in additional customers, they would not use it at all. Similar situation was with Enterprise - where Brannon and Braga stepped all over the Star Trek canon, actually tried to revrite it, and managed to run the travesty for 4 seasons.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
gandalfred said:
gandalfred said:
The market already has a sea of mindless shooter/beatum ups. Worse yet those same games like GTA and Hunter The Reckoning were simply done better in regards to story and game play.
If I remember correct, Van Buren was already near completion before Iplay decided to axe it wasting lots of time, manpower and energy to make FPOS. I think they did the same with the Baldurs Gate franchise as well. So yes, IPLAY screwed themselves. Instead of pleasing the fanbase, they wanted to court the console crowd and subsequently drowned in the sea of mediocrity.
Now had Iplay pleased the fanbase and released Van Buren, I believe it would have breathed new life into the industry. Once again a game company would be known for making damn good games and applauded for not sliding into the clone sinkhole every other game at the time was heading into.
gandalfred said:
I believe making F3 anti fanbase is worse for Beth. There are plenty of shinier or better suited FPS games out there such as Crysis, Quake Wars, Battlefield Modern Combat/2142, COD Modern Combat, etc, etc, for the masses. How will F3 compare? Once again if Beth had wanted to test the waters, why waste 3 mill with IP when you could probably develope your own version for less.
Second, it only continues the vicious cycle. In a way its an ingenious plot much akin to hollywood. If all you do is mass produce simple, sooner or later people will accept it as the norm and want nothing else. However, there is a catch. Trusting company profits to such an easily swayed and fickle crowd has huge profit loss potential. Hence this is why EA and other companies have to release a mass of titles to leverage their successes and failures. Its a sad time for the gaming industry when you are comparable to mutual funds.
gandalfred said:
Your not being serious are you??? Had FPOS succeded, all Iplay would have done was make FPOS 2,3 etc, etc. It was already clear Iplay figured they could merrily cash in on the bandwagon of stupidity while turning their backs on the fanbase who actually kept them afloat. Us here at NMA already saw this descent into madness ahead of time and begged them to stop for we knew it would mean the final axe for Fallout. In the end, alienating the fanbase was what screwed them over not for listening to it.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
And yet again not true. Sorry, but that's actually so far from the truth that it's dumbfounding.
GandalfRed said:
You mean, the Descent 2 which was released a year before Fallout 1? And how could Fallout Tactics make any financial impact on Interplay? They were neither the publisher, nor the developer. Fallout 2 and Freespace 2 were both big hits...
It leaves THAT ONE GAME, ololol.
You sir, are full of fail and lies.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
I don't think he's lying, such inaccuracies can be found in many places, not everyone followed the events like us.
Mord_Sith
Mildly Dipped
Oi, there's lots to bomb in Canada, like a majority of the North American Army that's annexing it.
Using nukes on Canada certainly would not be a waste because most of the US gets their water from Canada, you pollute the water streams north of the US, they wind up drifting downstream and sickening those south of Canada even worse.
GandalfRed
First time out of the vault
Well sir, if you want it check the FINANCIAL figures of FO2, Descent 3(sorry my mistake in typing) and Freespace 2 theirMadbringer said:
investment/profit/loss. Being critically acclaimed and becoming cult games does not make them financially viable to sustain future development - which they were not.
If you insist that losses( or positive zero's) made (among others) on the mentioned games did not push Interplay in the red (with the wrong choices they subsequently made), please indulge me and PM me an, on this forum, "acceptable version" of Interplay history, so I could discard financial statements history and trust that one.
What this doesn't change is the fact that to Beth, FO franchise is a "foreign object", they bought it as their analysts told them to rape the name and do RPG with guns (which they themselves admit to do the best). As Interplay filing states it would take 5Mil advance investment, 30Mil development costs and 40mil marketing costs to make FO MMORPG = 75Mil. Deduct 25Mil on MMO infrastructure and you come to 50Mil investment in developing an AAA title. (oh please tell me that i'm full of lies on this one - you can even find it on Wiki)
so there you have the cost of making a new game. Can you guarantee Beth even 60Mil of returns if they make FO3 haw we like it? (or deduct 5-7 mil on them already owning the engine. and only having to update it)
.......
Anyone
.......
This is why I said it would be better to have some smaller company develop FO3 - loyal fanbase, simply does not have that much financial potential (60.000.000 / 50=1.200.000 customers - riiiight there is 1.2 mil FO fans just itching queuing around the corner to spend 50 bucks)
I hate them for making Oblivion with guns, and raping FO, but they are not wrong in their business logic.
Certainly there were smaller companies, more niche oriented which could have scraped/borrowed the price of the FO IP. With care, and reverence to the franchise and it's canon they could have made very good earnings on the FO3. But no one came up when those assholes at Interplay put it on sale. Hell if the fanbase was 1.2mil strong it's about 5$ per head, all of us could have bought the IP, and then let the community develop the sequel.
Sound plausible? Not to me - it would have sunk in debates, on each and every item in the game starting from should it be in 1024x768 onward.
So Interplay killed FO with it's (decision making, intellectual and financial)demise, and sell to highest bidder.
Troika "killed it" for folding before FO franchise was up for grabs,
etc, etc.
All the others(who da community deems worthy of developing a sequel) killed it for not competing with Beth. Beth only throws the last shovel. Or maybe makes a frankenstein out of it. We actually hardly have any influence now except to loathe the product.
Mord_Sith
Mildly Dipped
You're opening a nasty can of worms there, I hope you're prepared because you might even wake the mighty Rosh with some of the rubbish you're spewing.
Be prepared, 'cause I'm gonna hide for a bit until this blows over.
Be prepared, 'cause I'm gonna hide for a bit until this blows over.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
GandalfRed what was the financial draining of mainstream games like NWN and The Matrix, that had to be sold because of the impact they were having? How many hardcore games weren't released because of them?
What were the results of mainstream attempts of creating new IPs with Sacrifice and Giants that were released at the same time?
Did Descent 3 bombed because it was too hardcore, or because not many could run it without problems and had changes made that weren't pleasing a few of the hardcore fans?
How many games got started and canceled from 1998 to 2002?
IWD was an Infinity engine game set in the Forgotten Realms, wasn't that the more mainstream possible in those days?
What were the results of the Hunter series, Exalted (also canceled) or the second Baldurs Gate for the consoles?
And in the meantime Fallout 3 got the shaft three times, is that operating for a "hardcore crowd"?
What were the results of mainstream attempts of creating new IPs with Sacrifice and Giants that were released at the same time?
Did Descent 3 bombed because it was too hardcore, or because not many could run it without problems and had changes made that weren't pleasing a few of the hardcore fans?
How many games got started and canceled from 1998 to 2002?
IWD was an Infinity engine game set in the Forgotten Realms, wasn't that the more mainstream possible in those days?
What were the results of the Hunter series, Exalted (also canceled) or the second Baldurs Gate for the consoles?
And in the meantime Fallout 3 got the shaft three times, is that operating for a "hardcore crowd"?