New York isn’t a crater. Fallout 4 confirms as much.

S

stevejock1

First time out of the vault
As I was wandering the wastes, I believe this was in the subway tunnels leading to Vault 114 in order to rescue Nick, I happened upon a chem heist gone awry. I investigated the scene. Apparently, from the holotapes I recovered, these guys were attempting to split off from their crew with some chems and the holotape indicated they were going to leave a false trail by telling the rest of their crew they were heading to New York, implying that there’s still a New York you can go to and that there are others surviving there as well. Case closed. Let’s go home, folks.
 
From where did the info about New York being a crater come from?

Personally I consider everything post Black Isle Studios an alternative timeline Fallout so I don't even consider Fallout 4 canon.
 
I would not give much in to anything previous games said. Bethesda, like it or not, isn't consistent here. They will if necessary retcon everything as long as it fits their vision of the current game they have in development. Lore, consistency, story details. Nothing previous games did really matters in that regard. As long it doesn't hurt their vision.

Look at what they did with Jet being a pre-war drug now. Same as with the Enclave Power Armour also being a pre-war development. All just to have that stuff in Fallout 4, without any real explanation that makes sense. It would be even better if they just explained that someone who made Jet in Fallout 2 would have wandered into the Commonwealth and started making it or something.
 
Crni Vuk said:
I would not give much in to anything previous games said. Bethesda, like it or not, isn't consistent here. They will if necessary retcon everything as long as it fits their vision of the current game they have in development. Lore, consistency, story details. Nothing previous games did really matters in that regard. As long it doesn't hurt their vision.

Look at what they did with Jet being a pre-war drug now. Same as with the Enclave Power Armour also being a pre-war development. All just to have that stuff in Fallout 4, without any real explanation that makes sense. It would be even better if they just explained that someone who made Jet in Fallout 2 would have wandered into the Commonwealth and started making it or something.
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I'm more concerned about what they did with Super Mutants. It's just so fucking ridiculous, if Bethesda wanted to bring Super Mutants back they should of made them somehow related to the Master, not an entire different fucking species.
 
Does it matter what anything was or is? They just retcon it to make it fit. Pre-war Jet, X-01, Vertibirds, Orks in West Virginia, Enclave and BoS hideouts everywhere, Usain Bolt ghouls, etc.

If New York was ever a crater it's inconsequential to the Football player writing this stuff.
 
Crni Vuk said:
I would not give much in to anything previous games said. Bethesda, like it or not, isn't consistent here. They will if necessary retcon everything as long as it fits their vision of the current game they have in development. Lore, consistency, story details. Nothing previous games did really matters in that regard. As long it doesn't hurt their vision.

Look at what they did with Jet being a pre-war drug now. Same as with the Enclave Power Armour also being a pre-war development. All just to have that stuff in Fallout 4, without any real explanation that makes sense. It would be even better if they just explained that someone who made Jet in Fallout 2 would have wandered into the Commonwealth and started making it or something.
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It's not even about being consistent at points. It's about how much they care to be consistent if you ask me. There's some inconsistencies with Fallout 2 besides the reveal of Vaults as experiments. If you read in the Fallout Bible someone even asks Chris Avellone about one of them and he says oops, here's what I'd say to interpret to make it make more sense. The idea that he acknowledges it as a mistake is good. Retcons are also okay if they are staying within the ideas and spirit of the game's world if you ask me. Bethesda seems to care not about any of that, like you said, and will just do whatever it is they want. Like Jet showed up in Vaults in pre-Fallout 4 titles because of a loot table. It wasn't intentionally put there it just does because of how loot was generated. We get oh boohoo who cares? instead of a whoops, maybe we should look at how difficult it would be to make separate loot tables for areas to keep consistency with the world.
 
Man ... Fallout 2 had great writing no doubts about it. But making vaults in to experiments was the biggest mistake ever I think.
 
I assume it's been discussed on here in the days of old. And if you were curious as to what I was referring to specifically, it was this:
upload_2020-2-12_21-14-9.png

On page 233.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Man ... Fallout 2 had great writing no doubts about it. But making vaults in to experiments was the biggest mistake ever I think.
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I completely agree, and oddly was looking into this earlier today. Is Necropolis being the result of a vault experiment not established in Fallout 1?
 
TheHobbler said:
Is Necropolis being the result of a vault experiment not established in Fallout 1?
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No, they state the door didn't seal or got stuck partially open of some sort. No mention of Vault-Tec or any shadow government experiments. Vaults as experiments (besides control Vaults) truly started in Fallout 2. I think Tim Cain may have even suggested the idea or heavily showed favor for it. The Necropolis Vault is later said to have been purposely had the door not fully seal as to see what would happen.

Even someone here recently (as in the past year) mentioned how Ghouls also seemingly seemed to only really be intended as residents of that Vault, not just people around the wastes who absorbed enough radiation and/or that plus airborne FEV. It was either Zegh or Millim if I remember correctly.
 
Squadcar said:
The Necropolis Vault is later said to have been purposely had the door not fully seal as to see what would happen.
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Yeah, all I remembered from my playthrough was that the door broke. And, of course, all sources I could find said it was an experiment. Thanks for clarifying!

On the latter note, would there be much difference between radiation coming through the open door vs not being in a vault and exposed? Though I don't recall many ghouls outside of Necropolis... huh. Food for thought.
 
It really makes those channels made around fallout lore videos really damn funny. Imagine you make a video about a specific part of the lore, but then Bethesda retcons most of that in the following game.

Don't know why they even bother because they have to be aware that Bethesda looks at lore like something they can just change on a whim for the "rule of cool" nonsense.
 
Squadcar said:
I assume it's been discussed on here in the days of old. And if you were curious as to what I was referring to specifically, it was this:
View attachment 14614
On page 233.
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Is the FO bible considered canon? I remember this troglodyte with an anime profile picture on the official forums. He flip-flopped between it being canon and non-canon when it was convenient.

He pulled this stuff all the time. Like how in FNV the disguise system was shit because of a bug (putting on an NCR uniform in front of Legion makes them instantly hostile). In contrast to the immaculate Fallout 4 where you can stealth kill every BoS member on the ship without consequence. That is until you do it to Maxson where it makes sense that they know you were the one that did it.

It felt like I was talking to a machine learning AI in the early stages.
 
BigGuyCIA said:
Is the FO bible considered canon? I remember this troglodyte with an anime profile picture on the official forums. He flip-flopped between it being canon and non-canon when it was convenient.
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Who did? Chris Avellone? I think Chris plays a careful hand in trying to keep us happy and keep his freelance workstyle ready for if Bethesda ever wants to hire him again. He won't ever openly shun what Bethesda has done if that's the issue at hand.

I think the Fallout Bible always was supposed to serve as an idea center of sorts. And some clarifications of things that needed it. I've always been told it's semi-canon. Bethesda apparently used it for inspiration for their games in some manners or something. I'm sure the Van Buren team used it as a reference when creating the game as well. I haven't fully read it myself, just bits and pieces here and there. I just happened upon that question one night and was very fond of his response. An admission of fault.
BigGuyCIA said:
He pulled this stuff all the time. Like how in FNV the disguise system was shit because of a bug (putting on an NCR uniform in front of Legion makes them instantly hostile). In contrast to the immaculate Fallout 4 where you can stealth kill every BoS member on the ship without consequence. That is until you do it to Maxson where it makes sense that they know you were the one that did it.
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Honestly, I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying this or is this something Chris said? I think Chris is more critical of the work he's been involved with than anyone else's. That's for sure. He takes pride in what he has done but he never seems to want to be fully credited for things and likes to discuss things he wished games he worked on had done differently. I do know he said he really didn't like Mothership Zeta so there's that as a bonus (and thank god for that).

I do think Legion seeing you and knowing your alliance with them should have an effect on what happens if you plop on NCR armor right then and there. Hard to program/code? Maybe. But if you were neutral or only slight in with them, and you switched armors, I think they should definitely attack you as a oh shit this guy was NCR all along or a spy. But if you're in really good with them and have crippled the NCR alongside them, then that shouldn't be happening. Stealthily taking out the faction members, if done well, shouldn't affect your reputation. Doesn't matter who. If you take out a guard and no one witnesses it or sees you in the vicinity then there should be no cause to blame the PC for such a thing. Even if it's the leader. If you eliminate a witness before they call it in on the radio or shout it down a line of command somehow, then it should revert any lost faction reputation. Both systems have flaws about them, just differently.

I generally like Chris but I think he does play a more neutral/friendly face in the public space no matter what. Maybe that's just who he is, maybe it's so that other publishers and developers don't see him critiquing the hell out of their games. If they were to hire him, they'd probably be upset to find out he hated 85% of their last game or something and no longer want to offer him that contract.
 
Regarding the OP, is it stated someplace that New York was supposed to be a crater or is it just assumed to be since such a important city would be a huge target naturally?
 
To be fair, in a full scale nuclear attack pretty much every mayor city would be nothing more but a smoldering, giant, radiated crater.
 
Crni Vuk said:
To be fair, in a full scale nuclear attack pretty much every mayor city would be nothing more but a smoldering, giant, radiated crater.
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True, but Fallout has always taken a bit of liberty when it comes to how destroyed a prewar city is. From the first two games, Necropolis, SF and The Boneyard took alot of damage, but they're definitely not craters. I'd imagine that level of destruction would be something like The Glowing Sea, but encompassing an entire city. I will admit though, New York would certainly be a much bigger target than the 3 OG cities though.
 
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