NFL 2009

That's not on Rodgers, who has been playing some stellar football this year.
 
superstartran said:
Not to defend Favre or anything, but Aaron Rogers has yet to take his team to the play-offs while Favre took essentially the same Packers team to the NFC Championship game where they barely lost to the eventual Superbowl Champions.
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Look, we all know QB is the most important position on gridiron. But this attitude always grinds my gears.

Favre did not take "essentially the same Packers team" to the NFC Championship game. Favre's team allowed only 18.2 points per game and 12 sacks on their QB.

Rodgers' team? 23.8 points per game and 34 sacks. His current team is better defensively but has already allowed a mindblowing 31 sacks over 7 games. What's more, Favre also had a more balanced offense available led by Ryan Grant's competent rushing, which disappeared after Favre left.

Frith, I so hope Favre does the predictable and collapses in the second half. I'm fed up with this storyline.
 
Great QBs overcome in big games, despite rationalizations.

That Rodgers gets sacked more and leaves his D out more is as much an indicment of him as it does differentiate his from the team 1.5 years ago.

Young QBs hold onto the ball too long (not that this is an endorsement of Favre, the all-time least successfull forcer of balls). You're playing one of the best Ds in football with a pass rusher who has to be the frontrunner for Defensive Player of the Year. 3-steps and throw it, throw it away, or get sacked. Holding the ball for too long isn't necessarily the O-Line's fault. Coverage sacks aren't the O-line's fault.

Packers have made the right move here, it just won't pan out for a few years. They'll be better off when it does, than had they stuck with Farva, but in the meantime they have to eat humble pie.

Want some cheese with that?
 
superstartran said:
Not to defend Favre or anything, but Aaron Rogers has yet to take his team to the play-offs while Favre took essentially the same Packers team to the NFC Championship game where they barely lost to the eventual Superbowl Champions.
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not to point out the obvious or anything, but how many years does Rodgers have under his belt as a starter? oh. oh...one, you say? one? ok. yeah, so that's like...totally rational and fair to compare a guy with one year under his belt to a guy with 16. every playoff game the Packers were in from 1998-2006 were wildcard games. which Rodgers still has the chance to make happen this year.

don't be a fucking GB-bumpkin like the others, dude. use your head.
 
TwinkieGorilla said:
totally rational and fair to compare a guy with one year under his belt to a guy with 16.
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No, you'd compare him to true rookies (with absolutely 0 NFL experience, unlike Rodgers) who didn't take over teams that were a fluky OT FG away from the SB and still made the play-offs like Ryan and Flacco. They never took an NFL snap, unlike Rodgers who'd been in the system a few years.

Why is it fair to throw Romo under the bus when he took over a team that hasn't made the playoffs since the Clinton Administration, but Rodgers takes over a bona-fide contender and goes nowhere, and we can rationalize that.

Rodgers doesn't deserve a free pass, and neither does Favre for taking over a team with the league's elite in rusher, D and returners.

Rodgers will have his day in the sun, it's just not this year.
 
i'm not defending Rodgers either. i'm pointing out a goddamn series of rational facts. you're right, compared to Flacco and Ryan there's something not quite clicking with Rodgers (though i still think that Rodgers has more potential to be great than those two) but he shows flashes of brilliance. i didn't think we'd be playoff contenders for the first two years of him with us, so i'm not surprised.

but McCarthy's coaching and play-calling has been rubbing me horribly this year. why are we so good at getting that fucking yellow flag every down? you can't tell me that every time Rodgers made a great pass down the field or scored a touchdown and some jackass on the o-line drew a penalty...that this is Rodgers' fault and "his team are contenders and he's accountable". seriously, don't be fucking daft. it doesn't work that way.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
No, you'd compare him to true rookies (with absolutely 0 NFL experience, unlike Rodgers) who didn't take over teams that were a fluky OT FG away from the SB and still made the play-offs like Ryan and Flacco.
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Again, how is that fair? Both those QBs could lean on their running game. Both those QBs had defenses working for them.

Jake Delhomme made the playoffs. Is he a better QB than Rodgers?

And are we seriously going to pretend the GB team Rodgers starter for in k8 was the same team that almost made the SB in k7? Really?

Again, this grinds my gears. Blame a QB for what's his fault, which does include a percentage of the sacks he takes but not nearly all of them. He has no running game so he can't run out the clock. His O-Line is a mess so he takes more sacks than he should. His defense is in transition and - like any D in transition - isn't that good.

Romo choked both times he made the playoffs. Romo is leading a polished, play-off ready team. That's what he's getting shit for. I haven't seen Rodgers give a bad performance in a key game...I haven't seen him give a bad performance period.

Believe it or not, when a QB throws for nearly 400 yards and 3 TDs, you can not blame a loss on him.
 
If that wasn't good enough, then it wasn't good enough. That he got some garbage yards in the 4th b/c Minn was leaning prevent doesn't really prove much. If he threw for 175 yards and 1TD, but did it when it mattered, we'd be talking him up.

Again, how is that fair? Both those QBs could lean on their running game. Both those QBs had defenses working for them.
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So who would you be comfortable comparing him to?

And are we seriously going to pretend the GB team Rodgers starter for in k8 was the same team that almost made the SB in k7? Really?
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What major personnel/front office people did they lose? I really don't scrutinize their roster from year to year, but it doesn't seem all the different apart from the obvious QB change.

His defense is in transition and - like any D in transition - isn't that good.
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Pats lost Vrabel, Ellis Hobbes III, Richard Seymour, Bruschi, Rodney Harrison et al, benched veteran pro-bowlers Adalius Thomas, Shawn Spring and Leigh Bodden, lost the defensive player of the year in Mayo, and have switched from the 3-4 to the 4-3 and back again to the 3-4 and are 6th in the league total Def. That's more upheaval than GB's D has gone through. So no, not all defenses in transition are bad.

Romo is leading a polished, play-off ready team.
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Teams that need miracles to beat KC aren't polished or playoff ready. They're just fortuitous. Polished and playoffs are terms I would never think to apply to a Wade Phillips coached team.
Has he ever even won a playoff game in his illustrious career?

I'm not anti-Rodgers, he's the future of the Pack and his future is bright. I don't blame the Packers for moving forward w/o Favre, as opposed to letting him fade while the QB of the future languishes on the bench.
At the same time, where would the Vikes be now w/o Favre?

I see this as a win-win-win. Minn is going all-in and pays no heed to the future riding the Favre wave however long they can, GB is laying things out long term the way a solid Franchise should, and Favre is out to fulfill whatever narcissistic urges compel him to keep playing. Everyone should be happy.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
What major personnel/front office people did they lose? I really don't scrutinize their roster from year to year, but it doesn't seem all the different apart from the obvious QB change.
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there've been a lot of coaching/coordinator shifts for one. for another losing Tauscher hurt and our O-line was nary a single bang-up in 2007 as compared to this year where nearly EVERYBODY is hurt. on Defense we've been struggling intensely (more so last year) at Safety and CB from injuries. Grant was injured and useless all last year. our best kick returner (the Percy Harvin of OUR team) went out a few weeks ago and was also injured last year. James Jones, Jordy Nelson...two of our best receivers and our number 2 kick returner either were out for last year or are out now. Jermichael Finley, our secret weapon...out for who knows how long.

want me to keep going? none of these things factored into 2007 where FAVRE GOT FUCKING LUCKY ALL YEAR. have you watched those games, man? don't just look at stats and tell me you know the story. i've murdered fools for less.
 
That doesn't sound at all unlike what every other team goes through on a yearly basis. Not a lot of big names though, but Rodgers shouldn't be blamed for lack of depth.

A lineman, RB, 2 bench receivers and 2nd string return man being injured, I would've given my left nut if that's all the Pats lost last year. You Seahawks fans care to weigh in on last years injury situation?
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
That doesn't sound at all unlike what every other team goes through on a yearly basis. Not a lot of big names though, but Rodgers shouldn't be blamed for lack of depth.

A lineman, RB, 2 bench receivers and 2nd string return man being injured, I would've given my left nut if that's all the Pats lost last year. You Seahawks fans care to weigh in on last years injury situation?
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2 bench receivers? you really don't watch the Pack, do you? we go 4-5 wide 3/4 of our downs. so losing 2 of them and our tight-end Jermichael who's our up and coming superstar? fuck off, dude! that's literally HALF Rodger's weapons!

not only that i said 1st AND 2nd string returners, and let's be specific, two RB's, 3-4 O-linemen, a rotating cast of in n' out D-linemen and an ever-ailing secondary. yeah, i'd say that's a lot to deal with. and as for lack of big names? how many "big" names have their ever been on the Packers? the media never quite got far enough around Favre's shadow to talk about anybody else.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
That doesn't sound at all unlike what every other team goes through on a yearly basis. Not a lot of big names though, but Rodgers shouldn't be blamed for lack of depth.
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Wasn't the whole discussion here about Rodgers, not about the Pack's qualities in general?
In other words, aren't you just saying that Rodgers is pretty damned good but the Pack simply sucks?
 
the Pack doesn't suck. we just have some serious injuries and coaching issues.

we have some serious up and coming motherfuckers on our team (Clay Matthews, Greg Jennings. Jermichael Finley, BJ Raji) and some serious fucking veterans (Kampman, Woodson, Driver, Jolly, Picket) i mean...we have a great team...we just need to somehow pull it together. and right now i'm not convinced that McCarthy is the guy to do it. i stood by him last year but his playcalling is starting to fucking lose it.
 
Sander said:
Wasn't the whole discussion here about Rodgers, not about the Pack's qualities in general?
In other words, aren't you just saying that Rodgers is pretty damned good but the Pack simply sucks?
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No, I don't think the Packers suck, just trying to establish some kind of basis of comparison for evaluating Rodgers, but these guys are giving me the run around like he's some kind of sacred cow that gets a free pass.
 
it's not a free pass, dude. i'm not claiming anything crazy about him. what i AM saying is that he MIGHT look more like Brees if he had the same O-line. shit is falling apart in G-Bay land. Favre had favre-luck (which works both ways) and experience, that's the difference.

anyway, wtf is with Gruden having to have a nickname for each quarterback every goddamn week? The Surgeon? the fuck, dude?
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
That doesn't sound at all unlike what every other team goes through on a yearly basis. Not a lot of big names though, but Rodgers shouldn't be blamed for lack of depth.

A lineman, RB, 2 bench receivers and 2nd string return man being injured, I would've given my left nut if that's all the Pats lost last year. You Seahawks fans care to weigh in on last years injury situation?
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...No... Its worse this year... somehow. I think its the water, to all whom consume it, wind up prone to injury. There has been a little talk on the radio about Matt's condition, he may have re-injured his broken ribs...

While I've lost count on how many are injured, I know in some of the defensive line positions we are now four deep in our depth charts.
 
Maphusio said:
...No... Its worse this year... somehow.
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Not worse, it just changed focus. Last year it was mostly the hilarious WR depletion and general offensive injuries that had us begging for mercy. This year it's secondary, O-line and linebacker corpse. I think our D-line is still somewhat intact.

To take a more exact look:
QB was out for 2 games
Starting LT out for season, backup LT (normally starting RT) has been out so far, third LT went out for season, fourth LT injured in game, currently starting fifth LT, street-signed Damien McIntosh
Starting RG out for season
Starting Mike LB out for season
Starting Sam LB has played only two games so far
Starting CB1 played his first game this week at the nickel
Backup CB1/starting KR/PR missed 3 games

Overall, not as bad as last year. Still, def something in the water.

Cimmerian Nights said:
No, I don't think the Packers suck, just trying to establish some kind of basis of comparison for evaluating Rodgers.
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Why do we need a basis of comparison? Just look at his performances and figure out how many losses are his fault due to underperformance.
 
Gruden's schtick is getting sickeningly old, quick. every time he came up with some inane fucking nickname for somebody immediately followed by some inane explanation of why he calls them that, i wanted to reach through my screen and slap his fucking mouth with my dick.

like, dude...no. no you don't call Jeremy Shockey "The Joker". you just called him that now and you know it. also, explaining why you call him "The Joker" by exclaiming "because he can go up and down on anybody" makes NO FUCKING SENSE!! god, throw this fucker in a cage with Cornholer and let us get Madden out of retirement. fuck, i'd even take Wayne Larrivee saying nothing but "and there's your dagger!" every five minutes.
 
I call Reggie Bush my enema because he shoots deep up in the hole like a stream of cold water. Chucky. Somebody give this man a coaching job. Tirico's a putz too.



Saints remaining opponents have a .359 win pct. Wow. Pencil them in...

for a 2nd round playoff loss elimination care of the Eagles. :lol:
 
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